The State is attempting to Pirate the Shipwreck from JWI!

[Blak bart]

Huntsman a few years back Rep. Ilieana Ross-Leighton called for an accounting of the state treasure collection and even suggesting that part of it may be sold to pay the budget. The Sec. of State office (who controls the Dept. of Historical Resources) refused. It's as if they are trying to hide something. Nothing ever became of it.

Salvor thats a great bit of info........maybe she could be an ally and someone to contact for capt dom ? Is she still in office ?? Im sure if she is she could be reached and might get the topic some press.

 

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[Blak bart]

The most obvious reason to deny is that all that has been collected over the years cannot be accounted for. If this could be proven it would be like a topedo shot to the hull of the states battle ship. Corruption like the states treasure being plundered or sold would lead to a full investigation into corruption in the dept. Of historical resources.............maybe !!!

 

[huntsman53]

Salvor thats a great bit of info........maybe she could be an ally and someone to contact for capt dom ? Is she still in office ?? Im sure if she is she could be reached and might get the topic some press.

Bart... Yes, Rep. Ileana Ros-Leighton is still in Office. She served as U.S. Representative for Florida's 18th District from 1989 to 2013 and has served Florida's 27th District since 2013. Having tried to get access to the treasures stored in the State's Treasury, she might be the person to get the Ball-A-Rolling per se as long as she has not been bought off or threatened.

https://ros-lehtinen.house.gov/

 

[huntsman53]

I am hoping for some clarification on one point. In Capt. Dom's initial post, he stated that "a Federal Magistrate entered a report and recommendation that a Federal Judge signed stripping JWI of its future ownership rights of the shipwreck that the Court awarded it almost 30 years ago.". I ask, how can a Federal Magistrate enter a report or even make a recommendation without someone or some entity filing Court Documents asking him or her to review the case? Is this not overstepping their authority and a blatant violation of Judicial Law? Even if this was allowed judiciously, don't they have to give the other side a heads-up and time to reply and file motions? If I am correct that this Magistrate violated Judicial Law, then a formal complaint to those that oversee Judges is definitely in order.

http://www.uscourts.gov/statistics-reports/complaints-against-judges-judicial-business-2012

 

[catherine1]

Here is my advice. You need make your own "limited appearance" in court, just like the state has done. By making a limited appearance the judge/magistrate has to follow the states orders. When you make your limited appearance, you will be assigning the magistrate as your 'trustee'. And as your trustee he can only do what you request of him. He has no authority to grant the state anything at this point. The state is not a person, and they can't assign him as a trustee, only you can do that. Go to this website for more instructions on how to handle this without a bar attorney, "anti corruption society". This is not for the weak at heart.......and all of the governments corporate agents will hate you.

 

[huntsman53]

I think that the website linked below is the website you mentioned.

https://anticorruptionsociety.com/

 

[Darren in NC]

Here is my advice. You need make your own "limited appearance" in court, just like the state has done. By making a limited appearance the judge/magistrate has to follow the states orders. When you make your limited appearance, you will be assigning the magistrate as your 'trustee'. And as your trustee he can only do what you request of him. He has no authority to grant the state anything at this point. The state is not a person, and they can't assign him as a trustee, only you can do that. Go to this website for more instructions on how to handle this without a bar attorney, "anti corruption society". This is not for the weak at heart.......and all of the governments corporate agents will hate you.

If you do this, Dom, please keep us updated as to its effectiveness. I, for one, would like to have more effective strategies vs. waste-my-time ones.

 

[capt dom]

We did file for q status conference because the State altered our agreement and was attempting deny us the rigt to use prop wash devices after 30 years of not complaining about us using them. They also would not allow us to expand our search area. We wanted the Federal Court to see how unfair the State was treating us and it ended up biting us in the butt!

 

[capt dom]

I am hoping for some clarification on one point. In Capt. Dom's initial post, he stated that "a Federal Magistrate entered a report and recommendation that a Federal Judge signed stripping JWI of its future ownership rights of the shipwreck that the Court awarded it almost 30 years ago.". I ask, how can a Federal Magistrate enter a report or even make a recommendation without someone or some entity filing Court Documents asking him or her to review the case? Is this not overstepping their authority and a blatant violation of Judicial Law? Even if this was allowed judiciously, don't they have to give the other side a heads-up and time to reply and file motions? If I am correct that this Magistrate violated Judicial Law, then a formal complaint to those that oversee Judges is definitely in order.

Complaints Against Judges - Judicial Business 2012 | United States Courts

The 11th Circuit Court has agreed that the Federal Court did have jurisdiction and a 3 Judge Appellate Pabel is reviewing the action. The problem is the world runs on the "Good Old Boy" network. The 3 Judge panel probably are most likely not going to recognized we have been getting plucked by the State of Florida for over 30 years and are just going to cover up the Magistrate's phopas

 

[huntsman53]

The 11th Circuit Court has agreed that the Federal Court did have jurisdiction and a 3 Judge Appellate Pabel is reviewing the action. The problem is the world runs on the "Good Old Boy" network. The 3 Judge panel probably are most likely not going to recognize that we have been getting plucked by the State of Florida for over 30 years and are just going to cover up the Magistrate's faux pas.

If the actions the Federal Magistrate took in this matter were illegal per Judicial Law and especially if they were done without a Court filing and done based off a phone call or conversation, then nothing the 3 Judge panel does, can cover up the Federal Magistrate's faux pas. If the actions of the Federal Magistrate are/were illegal, then JWI can file a complaint against him or her and you may be able to file to have their' actions overturned.

 

[Curtis]

When I read this its like some third world country's laws. Some goberment dude always trying to stick it to the people who work/invest! I wrote Trump about this stuff (treasure hunters/salvors needing help/protection) back in February. Haven't got a response yet. I thought he might as it has the propensity to create billions of dollars worth of taxes, money they won't see when things really go underground(should say underwater?), which it will as soon as submersibles get more advanced...then how are they going to know what you are doing?

 

[Salvor6]

Curtis, treasure hunting goes on. There are several expeditions that have reaped profit. I am not at liberty to reveal who they are and what they found. But be assured that because of tax laws and government claim laws, the finders do not reveal what they have found.

 

[xaos]

Perhaps the entire process and law should be revisited, as you promote theft of antiquities and defrauding Florida taxpayers, due to the laws, and from what you say is rampant, then this does not benefit anyone.
Stolen property is never sold at full price.

I should like to review of this, and really understand why this is at where it is at. What are the requirements? If the court ruling on the Atocha set it up this way, was that the starting point, assuming there would be followup?

The State gets 20% or so, of what, a bunch of disconnected, out of context artifacts from the bottom. What would you expect them to do with that? The treasure hunter gets 80% and has to document what according to the agreement? I don't really know, I am asking. What is the state budget that was set up in the court ruling to deal with the 20%, or is it just dumped on them?

Would it be better to have the state do the research, determine the context and provenance. perhaps add value to the treasure? It seems to me that the process needs to be set up and detailed, not a simple shotgun approach with 80/20. that is not sustainable (as we can see)

Has anyone representing treasure hunters in Florida ever proposed a process or system to deal with the finds?

 

[enrada]

XAOS
I can tell by your wording that you work in a government job or are associated with Archies. Do some research and see how many hundred of years that Admiralty Law allowed shipwrecks to be salvaged and the recovered items sold and put back into commerce. Then along came Archies(publish or perish mob) who decided that they didn't have the tenacity to raise funds and salvage shipwrecks in the private sector. So they decided to try and own all shipwrecks with any willing government and create a desk job for themselves. They came up with the word insitu because they had no funding to recover artifacts. Then they said it was a cultural artifact and had to be "managed". When you see the word insitu in any article written by an Archie, just replace insitu with these words "for job security" and you will understand why the shipwreck business is where it is today. Are you insinuating that the private shipwreck salvagers don't know how to do research, determine the context and add provenance? Mel Fisher proposed a process to deal with the finds, conserve them and put them in a museum for everyone to see. Unfortunately this does not create any on going jobs for Archies. Look how much litigation he had to go through. When you say out of context for what reason? So you can rebuild a 400 year old ship and recreate the wooden shipbuilding industry or create another government desk jockey job to MANAGE the artifacts. Have you ever been in one of the two Mel Fisher-Atocha museums? Just reality.

 

[enrada]

Also want to know what Anne Giesecke, who wrote the US Shipwreck Act is doing now? She is a lobbyist for the Snack Food Association and was never in the shipwreck business!

 

[capt dom]

Perhaps the entire process and law should be revisited, as you promote theft of antiquities and defrauding Florida taxpayers, due to the laws, and from what you say is rampant, then this does not benefit anyone.
Stolen property is never sold at full price.

I should like to review of this, and really understand why this is at where it is at. What are the requirements? If the court ruling on the Atocha set it up this way, was that the starting point, assuming there would be followup?

The State gets 20% or so, of what, a bunch of disconnected, out of context artifacts from the bottom. What would you expect them to do with that? The treasure hunter gets 80% and has to document what according to the agreement? I don't really know, I am asking. What is the state budget that was set up in the court ruling to deal with the 20%, or is it just dumped on them?

Would it be better to have the state do the research, determine the context and provenance. perhaps add value to the treasure? It seems to me that the process needs to be set up and detailed, not a simple shotgun approach with 80/20. that is not sustainable (as we can see)

Has anyone representing treasure hunters in Florida ever proposed a process or system to deal with the finds?

I will not succumb to a fallacy of logic and "attack the person" but your above statement is riddled with miss interpretations of facts. 80% and 20% of what If the State has the right to take the truly one of a kind, "unique" items for public curation and care and, one uses value as a percent measurement, they ae the ones getting the 80%. But, the bull crap archaeologists "value" is not a criteria... bull crap! In our Federal Admiralty Action the Federal Judge remanded a "color of title question" back to State Court and the State Court never chose to contest the issue. Subject to this fact our Admiralty Award stood the test of time for over 25 years!

We have been robbed by the State of Florida for over 30 years by them taking the truly unique items and the most valuable items, like a 5 pound ingot of gold from us that we hear is now at the governor's mansion... This 5 pound ingot of gold was a truly unique artifact because I left the coins encrusted to it, so it could be liked to our shipwreck event. As soon as the state got their hands on it they stripped the coins from it and thus turned it into just gold bullion and still took one of two from us. These folks are criminals who hide under the guise of protecting the public interest. I for one wish this whole situation could be revisited at the Supreme Court level but who can afford it! Yet some Government FBI can raise over $100,000.00 on Go Fund me in less than 10 hours..... Our system is corrupt and, "The Rats are Guarding the Cheese!"

 

[capt dom]

The rarest of artifacts to come off the Jupiter Shipwreck, more than likely was not even from the shipwreck and was most probably from before the next to last ice age, when sea levels were much lower and where the shipwreck is is now beach! It was a Glacial Kame' Sole Gorget. Before this was discovered by us under 28 feet of overburden, Dr Ryan Wheeler's Doctoral Thesis stated that none of these could be found in south florida.... This belongs in public curation and care as a truly unique artifact and I wanted to barter it for the gold bar that the State Archaeologists compromised as an artifact by taking the coins from it. Instead, the State unilaterally takes it from us and gives us a few more crappy coins that went mostly to another contract salver.... JWI and the people of Florida screwed once more by DHR

 

[huntsman53]

The rarest of artifacts to come off the Jupiter Shipwreck, more than likely was not even from the shipwreck and was most probably from before the next to last ice age, when sea levels were much lower and where the shipwreck is is now beach! It was a Glacial Kame' Sole Gorget. View attachment 1621920 Before this was discovered by us under 28 feet of overburden, Dr Ryan Wheeler's Doctoral Thesis stated that none of these could be found in south florida.... This belongs in public curation and care as a truly unique artifact and I wanted to barter it for the gold bar that the State Archaeologists compromised as an artifact by taking the coins from it. Instead, the State unilaterally takes it from us and gives us a few more crappy coins that went mostly to another contract salver.... JWI and the people of Florida screwed once more by DHRView attachment 1621921

Awesome Gorget Capt.! So much more of an artifact than Spanish treasures considering the the Gorget can Date anywhere from 3,000 to 10,000 years old.

 

[capt dom]

Awesome Gorget Capt.! So much more of an artifact than Spanish treasures considering the the Gorget can Date anywhere from 3,000 to 10,000 years old.

And what did we get for discovering an artifact that may well pre-date the written word We got it so far up the butt, and the Gorget got hidden, so that even a Proctologist can't even find it. Unless Governor Scot may be now wearing it, as Florida current chief!

 

[Salvor6]

Capt. Dom, reminds me of Hog Island at the mouth of the Suwannee River. I went there in 1998 to search for pirate treasure on Hog island. A local charter boat captain said "bring your metal detectors and shovels" because the area has already been raped by the state. There was a 14 foot tall Indian mound on Hog Is. but the state archies tore it down in 1992 and recovered over 20,000 artifacts. The leftover mound is just 3' tall now. The local towns people wanted to see what was recovered but the archies said "no, you are too stupid to understand what we recovered." The collection is now located in the basement of the Dept. of Historical Resources building in Tallahassee, off limits to the public!