The Square Round Table

[Rebel - KGC]

Got out today and Dad was able to come along. 80 degrees all day and now we are home and the thunderstorm hits! Timed it just right and we didn't get our feathers wet. We located another gun site tree and two more symbols at one site and got exact coordinance we needed at another one. All in all a very productive day and very fullfilling to finally apply some of what we have learned in the field. Now its time to hit the books and try and figure out the two new symbols we found. Any ideas you guys have would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance, L.C.

View attachment 1577363

INTERESTING... in the "cross-lines" (aiming), and "on the line"...?

 

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[Benjamin Gates]

Do they line up, or indicate, somewhere on your map?

 

[Benjamin Gates]

I am just guessing here, but could they be some type of survey benchmark? Just the beginning(s) of a map you are following...more to be located?

 

[L.C. BAKER]

We believe they are marking two lines crossing one point and one line crossing another. We were directed there by the map and located the two points. Each one has a different symbol on it. We arrived on one line to one of the points, then we were directed to the other by what we found there. We will see what is next now that the weather has straightened up and we can get back out there and try a few things. I will keep you guys informed as we go, we can always use fresh ideas and information. We are on the right track and gaining.

L.C.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

HH! Good Luck! Have FUN!

 

[barnhse]

So, I have been digging around looking for these safes for over 2 years.
Needless to say, I can't really dig 24+ feet down with very many holes, especially part-time on the week ends.
All my efforts to use technology have failed, due to the extreme depth of the safes (20+ feet), and the type of ground (salt water infused sandy marshland, lots of hematite and iron ore rocks made my using pulse induction and VLF metal detectors useless).
Getting heavy equipment (or even horses) in there is out of the question, as it is a marsh and they would simply sink. (luckily I don't sink, unless it rains!)
Using dynamite is a useless idea as the holes just cave in and fill back up with sand and water.
In order to dig holes in this sandy, wet marsh that don't cave in, I have to use hand augers and PVC pipes to keep my holes from caving in...and if I hit a rock, then that hole is done and have to start yet another hole.
Marshland is about a square mile, so a large area. It takes me a weekend to dig just one hole. The wife complains.

All that being said, I am just too stubborn to give up.
Looking for ideas from folks smarter than me.

 

[Benjamin Gates]

Magnetometer searching in a grid pattern. The safe(s) being made of cast iron will give a high reading you are looking for,
but it will not tell you the highway dept buried a stack of metal pipe.

 

[barnhse]

Magnetometer searching in a grid pattern. The safe(s) being made of cast iron will give a high reading you are looking for,
but it will not tell you the highway dept buried a stack of metal pipe.

Do you think a magnetometer can find a 3X3 foot safe top 25 feet down, through hematite sandy soil, with some iron ore rocks scattered around?

I guess no one can know until I try it.

 

[L.C. BAKER]

Do you think a magnetometer can find a 3X3 foot safe top 25 feet down, through hematite sandy soil, with some iron ore rocks scattered around?

I guess no one can know until I try it.

I have not used one, but I read this and it seems to be based on variables including terrain. http://hs.umt.edu/geosciences/facul...gnetics/sources /GEM_Depth_of_Penetration.pdf

 

[L.C. BAKER]

So, I have been digging around looking for these safes for over 2 years.
Needless to say, I can't really dig 24+ feet down with very many holes, especially part-time on the week ends.
All my efforts to use technology have failed, due to the extreme depth of the safes (20+ feet), and the type of ground (salt water infused sandy marshland, lots of hematite and iron ore rocks made my using pulse induction and VLF metal detectors useless).
Getting heavy equipment (or even horses) in there is out of the question, as it is a marsh and they would simply sink. (luckily I don't sink, unless it rains!)
Using dynamite is a useless idea as the holes just cave in and fill back up with sand and water.
In order to dig holes in this sandy, wet marsh that don't cave in, I have to use hand augers and PVC pipes to keep my holes from caving in...and if I hit a rock, then that hole is done and have to start yet another hole.
Marshland is about a square mile, so a large area. It takes me a weekend to dig just one hole. The wife complains.

All that being said, I am just too stubborn to give up.
Looking for ideas from folks smarter than me.

What led you to those holes if you don't mind me asking?

 

[barnhse]

What led you to those holes if you don't mind me asking?

My post #79 on this forum thread, that I posted on April 2.

 

[Kace]

So, I have been digging around looking for these safes for over 2 years.
Needless to say, I can't really dig 24+ feet down with very many holes, especially part-time on the week ends.
All my efforts to use technology have failed, due to the extreme depth of the safes (20+ feet), and the type of ground (salt water infused sandy marshland, lots of hematite and iron ore rocks made my using pulse induction and VLF metal detectors useless).
Getting heavy equipment (or even horses) in there is out of the question, as it is a marsh and they would simply sink. (luckily I don't sink, unless it rains!)
Using dynamite is a useless idea as the holes just cave in and fill back up with sand and water.
In order to dig holes in this sandy, wet marsh that don't cave in, I have to use hand augers and PVC pipes to keep my holes from caving in...and if I hit a rock, then that hole is done and have to start yet another hole.
Marshland is about a square mile, so a large area. It takes me a weekend to dig just one hole. The wife complains.

All that being said, I am just too stubborn to give up.
Looking for ideas from folks smarter than me.

I think your determination is great!

Just a really friendly suggestion, please take a week and do as much research as you can on WHO drew that map and ALL the other maps just like it... I'd hate for your marriage to collapse because of this.

There was Never a Real Jesse James lll. If you need more names, just ask. Plenty of folks here know and I'd tell you any that I can.

Those authors put that same stuff in their books to sell more. Go online and look for KGC maps... you'll see what I'm saying I'm sure.

There is no doubt in my mind there's a lot of treasure of all types to be found in Texas....just do a thorough search on the guy who drew That map. Then decide for yourself what you think.

Best Regards,
Kace

 

[ECS]

If the earth is getting closer to the sun, then I better hurry in finding this gold.

I got this book in order to find KGC treasure near me:
https://www.amazon.com/Mysterious-Se...+Golden+Circle
The Mysterious and Secret Order of the Knights of The Golden Circle (Volume 1) Paperback — March 1, 2005
by Dr. Roy William Roush Ph.D. (Author)

On page 64, there was a story and a hand drwan map of the hiding place from a person's view point.
View attachment 1572772

Needless to say, the map is not very useful.
Does anyone have a bird's eye map of the hiding place?

Needless to say as Kace mentioned, there was no Jesse James III, nor did CSA President Jefferson Davis have a Confederate depository in Texas.
Now if you had a map of David Levy Yulee's Cottonwood Plantation in Archer, Florida drawn by Wickliffe Yulee who buried two Davis trunks there, where Jefferson Davis did send his personal baggage and portion of the remaining Confederate Treasury that was portioned out at Marshall's Whitehall Plantation at Abbeville , SC, then you would have a possible useful map.

 

[barnhse]

Alas, you and Kace are probably 100% correct.
I have read before that Jesse James III was proven a con man.
Both of you are more experienced than I am.

I think it might be best for me to put a time limit on my quest.
Maybe if I don't find anything by the end of 2019 that I should give up.
I have 3 target areas that I can search before then.
I estimate about 50 holes total.
At least the wife could know that there is an end in sight to my searching.
I am almost 64 years old, and the hot Texas summers take a lot out of me when digging.

The only other treasures within driving distance to me were in Commerce, Tx (think thickets) and in Gilmer, Tx (think moccasin snakes and copper head snakes).
I searched for 2 years (each) before I gave up on those, too.
I searched for Fenn's treasure, too, but after 6 trips to New Mexico, the wife said no more.

Of course, I only go after big treasures, finding quarters and rings in lakes is not my thing.
Hence my keen interest in the KGC depositories.

Anyway, not quite giving up yet.
Livin' the dream (sort of) ... ha

 

[uglymailman]

ECS- the CSA did have a Treasury deposit in San Antonio or Austin. CSA General Joe Shelby either had it given to him or refused it depending on which story you want to believe. 50,000 in gold and silver by some accounts. When Shelby's bunch disbanded and went home a couple of years later, he gave each man 50 dollars. That had to come from somewhere. Good luck.

 

[Kace]

Alas, you and Kace are probably 100% correct.
I have read before that Jesse James III was proven a con man.
Both of you are more experienced than I am.

I think it might be best for me to put a time limit on my quest.
Maybe if I don't find anything by the end of 2019 that I should give up.
I have 3 target areas that I can search before then.
I estimate about 50 holes total.
At least the wife could know that there is an end in sight to my searching.
I am almost 64 years old, and the hot Texas summers take a lot out of me when digging.

The only other treasures within driving distance to me were in Commerce, Tx (think thickets) and in Gilmer, Tx (think moccasin snakes and copper head snakes).
I searched for 2 years (each) before I gave up on those, too.
I searched for Fenn's treasure, too, but after 6 trips to New Mexico, the wife said no more.

Of course, I only go after big treasures, finding quarters and rings in lakes is not my thing.
Hence my keen interest in the KGC depositories.

Anyway, not quite giving up yet.
Livin' the dream (sort of) ... ha

Barn... That makes me feel better that you kinda know what/who you're dealing with. Wow...you are determined! That guy didn't have two nickels to rub together.... and if he ever did I seriously doubt they were his.

I'm not encouraging this.. but it's the cheapest, expensive project I could think of and one that could be DEATHLY dangerous if not done right... but it works, IF done right. Not knowing the full layout of the land....all I can say is research a Cofferdam. You're still gonna need some equipment that you'd have to track to the location.

If you did happen to find a 3'x3' iron safe that was 20'+ down in marshland....The power needed to free it from the suction would be astronomical.

There's virtually no way to do a project like you've described without some equipment... And small crew. You shouldn't be out in marshland by yourself... I've stepped off in quicksand in Missouri and I went to my chest Fast. Luckily, I had taken one big step off solid ground not knowing it was quicksand covered in small flowers and it got me closer to a patch of solid grassy ground on the other side... I had a rifle with me and when I stepped off and went down, just instinctively I kept both arms up above me holding the rifle...or my hands would of been too slimy to hold on to that grass and pull myself out... minus boots and socks and covered in a slimy film.

Let us know how it goes.

Good Luck and Be Safe!
Kace

 

[ECS]

ECS- the CSA did have a Treasury deposit in San Antonio or Austin. CSA General Joe Shelby either had it given to him or refused it depending on which story you want to believe. 50,000 in gold and silver by some accounts. When Shelby's bunch disbanded and went home a couple of years later, he gave each man 50 dollars. That had to come from somewhere. Good luck.

There was a Confederate Depository in Bonham, Texas, and on May 23, 1865, CSA Gen H E McCullough burned all the records.
June 1865, CSA Gen Joseph O Shelby crossed the Rio Grande with about 600 of his "IRON BRIGADE" into Mexico, burying his undefeated and not surrendered CSA flag at the border.
Shelby offered his brigade services to Mexican Emperor Maximillian, who declined the offer, but gave Shelby and his men property near Vera Cruz, the Carlotta Colony. When Maximillian was overthrown, Shelby and most of his men returned to the US.
Many accounts of Shelby and his Iron Brigade when written post war by Shelby's adjutant, John Newman Edwards, known for his exaggerations, AND promoting the "Robin Hood of the West" stories and defense of the James and Youngers in his newspaper.
Uglymailman- what is the source of "some accounts" of Shelby and the $50,000 in gold and silver passed out to his men when they "disbanded and went home a couple years later"?

 

[barnhse]

Barn... That makes me feel better that you kinda know what/who you're dealing with. Wow...you are determined! That guy didn't have two nickels to rub together.... and if he ever did I seriously doubt they were his.

I'm not encouraging this.. but it's the cheapest, inexpensive project I could think of and one that could be DEATHLY dangerous if not done right... but it works, IF done right. Not knowing the full layout of the land....all I can say is research a Cofferdam. You're still gonna need some equipment that you'd have to track to the location.

If you did happen to find a 3'x3' iron safe that was 20'+ down in marshland....The power needed to free it from the suction would be astronomical.

There's virtually no way to do a project like you've described without some equipment... And small crew. You shouldn't be out in marshland by yourself... I've stepped off in quicksand in Missouri and I went to my chest Fast. Luckily, I had taken one big step off solid ground not knowing it was quicksand covered in small flowers and it got me closer to a patch of solid grassy ground on the other side... I had a rifle with me and when I stepped off and went down, just instinctively I kept both arms up above me holding the rifle...or my hands would of been too slimy to hold on to that grass and pull myself out... minus boots and socks and covered in a slimy film.

Let us know how it goes.

Good Luck and Be Safe!
Kace

A Cofferdam, yes, sort of.

If I were ever to find a safe (with the four corners identified with yet more holes), then getting my relatives to help me would not be a problem anymore. (no comment)
We would hand dig a 5X5 foot shaft down and shore up the shaft sides as we go down with plywood (or something).

I know about ventalators from Home Depot to push fresh air in, and another one to pull bad air out.
I have a carbon monoxide monitor and other monitors to wear as we go down.

I already have a 3 inch gasoline powered trash pump with which to pump water out of the shaft as we dig down.
We would excavate the dirt, one bucket at time, using a rope and maybe a battery powered winch to bring dirt to the surface to dump it.
It doesn't matter how long it takes to dig the shaft, if it is known a safe really exists down there. (the problem is finding it...ha)

I would not even try to get the safe out.
I would open the safe while is was still down in the hole probably with a generator powered circular saw with metal cutter blades to cut it open...doesn't matter how many blades I would have to use...maybe the safe would even have hinges to make the work faster.
Then I would fill a bucket at a time with the loot, and use a rope to raise the bucket out of the hole...one bucket at a time until the safe was emptied.

 

[uglymailman]

ESC- I just went through my bookmarks and seem to be missing several. I know one "account" was by Edwards. While I agree he was a big bag of frothy wind, I've found nowhere that he was inaccurate. I don't remember which way Edwards jumped on wither Shelby took the money or not. I don't know if Shelby gave out 50K or what, just it was 50 bucks a man. I don't know where it came from. As I don't remember the name of articles or authors, and I've read so much over the years, if tracking the story is important you might start with the Missouri Historical Society. I've read a lot of their stuff. I think there might be some recorded remembrances from around 1900 there. Good luck.

 

[Kace]

A Cofferdam, yes, sort of.

If I were ever to find a safe (with the four corners identified with yet more holes), then getting my relatives to help me would not be a problem anymore. (no comment)
We would hand dig a 5X5 foot shaft down and shore up the shaft sides as we go down with plywood (or something).

I know about ventalators from Home Depot to push fresh air in, and another one to pull bad air out.
I have a carbon monoxide monitor and other monitors to wear as we go down.

I already have a 3 inch gasoline powered trash pump with which to pump water out of the shaft as we dig down.
We would excavate the dirt, one bucket at time, using a rope and maybe a battery powered winch to bring dirt to the surface to dump it.
It doesn't matter how long it takes to dig the shaft, if it is known a safe really exists down there. (the problem is finding it...ha)

I would not even try to get the safe out.
I would open the safe while is was still down in the hole probably with a generator powered circular saw with metal cutter blades to cut it open...doesn't matter how many blades I would have to use...maybe the safe would even have hinges to make the work faster.
Then I would fill a bucket at a time with the loot, and use a rope to raise the bucket out of the hole...one bucket at a time until the safe was emptied.

Well...You've really thought this out... I'm glad to see that you do have help!

If you've read anything at all that I've written about Orvus Lee Houk you know I don't believe a word he has ever said. That's just my opinion. I respect others beliefs though and truthfully I'd like nothing more than to be proven wrong about this. I mean that and am wishing you great success.

I'd really like it if you would post updates and photos of your project. You would be the first ever to find and recover a major KGC depository. I'd definitely follow the thread! I'm sure others would too. You Would Make History, That's For Sure!

I do have a question though... How did those safes get to this marshland according to Orvus?

Good Luck and Keep Posting About Your Progress.

Kace