The Solution Rest Here.....

[ECS]

You have a right to you're thought, and they have a right to theirs.

Have I ever said different? I noticed on another thread that you called out the mods on a poster when you didn't like or understand his replies. Have you fancied yourself as arbiter when a post does not meet your criterion?

 

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[Old Silver]

Have I ever said different? I noticed on another thread that you called out the mods on a poster when you didn't like or understand his replies. Have you fancied yourself as arbiter when a post does not meet your criterion?

He was doing that to me. And he was disrespecting the OP, and trying to show himself as being above every other cache hunter.
You lost me on the last part of your sentence. You seem to be upset over nothing.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Doesn't prove a French/Bonapartist/Lafitte connection,either.
Either the story stands alone, being a true account, or it is a compilation of many other stores to create an entirely new story to only sell in Lynchberg. It is amazing all the time and research that has been wasted over the years on trying to prove the 1885 Beale Papers are more than what they are.

MISSING Papers were the KEY...? Hmmm...

 

[bigscoop]

Doesn't prove a French/Bonapartist/Lafitte connection,either.
Either the story stands alone, being a true account, or it is a compilation of many other stores to create an entirely new story to only sell in Lynchberg. It is amazing all the time and research that has been wasted over the years on trying to prove the 1885 Beale Papers are more than what they are.

"....wasted over the years on trying to prove the 1885 Beale Papers are more than what they are." You said that as if it were conclusive fact. We're just waiting for you to show us that conclusive proof as to what they are. Maybe, someday, if you'll spend less time picking arguments with everyone else and spend more time trying to find that evidence you lack you'll be able to conclusively prove what the Beale Papers really are. Until then it's just more of the same wind....

Me, I enjoy your presence and persistence, you've certainly helped me to build a stronger case.

 

[Old Silver]

If we had spent the time on this that the skeptics have spent, we would probably have found the treasure by now.

 

[bigscoop]

I have no issue with skeptics, actually prefer them to take part as they sometimes present fair argument that gives us reason to keep looking for additional resolution. On occasion they point out weaknesses that exist in our theories that we may not have realized existed. So I think skeptics are sometimes vital to the process when it can be used in constructive manner. So I entertain them, keep them involved. You never know when one of them might post something that fills that void.

 

[Old Silver]

I have no issue with skeptics, actually prefer them to take part as they sometimes present fair argument that gives us reason to keep looking for additional resolution. On occasion they point out weaknesses that exist in our theories that we may not have realized existed. So I think skeptics are sometimes vital to the process when it can be used in constructive manner. So I entertain them, keep them involved. You never know when one of them might post something that fills that void.

Offering differing opinions is one thing, but my definition of a skeptic is not something anyone needs.

 

[bigscoop]

I understand, and use to feel the same way. But when skeptics fail to produce evidence to the contrary, especially when asked to do so, then it only serves to add additional strength to what's been presented. I've posted many uncertainties with just this purpose in mind, to see what gets tossed back. There's really a lot to be learned sometimes in what gets thrown back, even from those pestering skeptics. So more often then not they actually help you build your case, or evidence when they toss something constructive back. And it's very frustrating to them when they can't.

 

[bigscoop]

To be honest, ECS makes a pretty good point about the author suggesting that folks shouldn't waste their time, because if they don't possess that unintelligible piece of paper then they don't stand a chance................Ooopsy!

 

[Rebel - KGC]

To be honest, ECS makes a pretty good point about the author suggesting that folks shouldn't waste their time, because if they don't possess that unintelligible piece of paper then they don't stand a chance................Ooopsy!

LOL!

 

[ECS]

Me, I enjoy your presence and persistence, you've certainly helped me to build a stronger case.

I know you do, Bigscoop.
Add another red herring to the smoker.

 

[bigscoop]

I know you do, Bigscoop.
Add another red herring to the smoker.

You've even given me a great idea for a book....."The Red Herring Diaries".....the plot is based around the notion that after the herring are smoked they do in fact turn a shade of red. So the main character eventually learns that what didn't exist before the smoking process does really exist afterwards.

 

[ECS]

... when skeptics fail to produce evidence to the contrary, especially when asked to do so, then it only serves to add additional strength to what's been presented... There's really a lot to be learned sometimes in what gets thrown back, even from those pestering skeptics. So more often then not they actually help you build your case, or evidence when they toss something constructive back. And it's very frustrating to them when they can't.

It's also very frustrating when one ignores a valid question that concerns linking a pet theory to the Beale story.
Once a again, is there any evidence outside of the pamphlet that can show the chain of custody of the ciphers and then the story from Beale to Morriss, then from Morriss to "unknown" author, and then from the "unknown" author to Ward and Sherman?
Without this chain of custody evidence all theories, except for the dime novel theory( the Ward/Sherman connection is known), would be considered moot.
That is the real missing link.

 

[bigscoop]

"Once a again, is there any evidence outside of the pamphlet that can show the chain of custody of the ciphers and then the story from Beale to Morriss, then from Morriss to "unknown" author, and then from the "unknown" author to Ward and Sherman?"

Obviously, the only place that lengthy string exist is in the pamphlet story. We could only hope that we could eventually arrive at all of that outside of the pamphlet, that's the whole point for the continued research efforts.

Again, as stated previously, I can't give you the final conclusive antidote that you desire. But what I can give you, and have given you, is some undeniable evidence is support of the theory presented that you've yet to produce evidence to the contrary. In fact a couple of your efforts have even helped make the theory stronger. Look, if can prove your case then I'm all for it. Just produce the same evidence that you demand from others in doing so. Suggesting that the author simply grabbed prior information in the writing of his story is easy to do....but can you prove it? No, you can't. So while it's a strong theory, and even one that I've not discounted, it still can't be proved to the same measure that you expect/demand of others. Maybe you should try to find that evidence outside of the pamphlet. A simple communication between Ward and Sherman, or even Hutter, in regards to their conspiring to write the story would do it. You do possess that information, right?

 

[Rebel - KGC]

You've even given me a great idea for a book....."The Red Herring Diaries".....the plot is based around the notion that after the herring are smoked they do in fact turn a shade of red. So the main character eventually learns that what didn't exist before the smoking process does really exist afterwards.

Sorta like Ben Franklin's "special" glasses on the back of the DOI or something ...

 

[Old Silver]

Yeah, keep looking for those flashing signs. They should show up any time now.

 

[ECS]

"Once a again, is there any evidence outside of the pamphlet that can show the chain of custody of the ciphers and then the story from Beale to Morriss, then from Morriss to "unknown" author, and then from the "unknown" author to Ward and Sherman?"

Obviously, the only place that lengthy string exist is in the pamphlet story. We could only hope that we could eventually arrive at all of that outside of the pamphlet, that's the whole point for the continued research efforts.

Again, as stated previously, I can't give you the final conclusive antidote that you desire. But what I can give you, and have given you, is some undeniable evidence is support of the theory presented that you've yet to produce evidence to the contrary. In fact a couple of your efforts have even helped make the theory stronger... Suggesting that the author simply grabbed prior information in the writing of his story is easy to do....but can you prove it? No, you can't. So while it's a strong theory, and even one that I've not discounted, it still can't be proved to the same measure that you expect/demand of others...

...and you can't prove beyond a reasonable doubt the connection between Adams_Onis, Champ d' Asile, Bonapartists, Lafitte, or if Mexico Sherman ever spoke to John Sherman.
The doubts you hold concerning the dime novel theory are not so different from the doubts I hold with your proposed premise and theory. There are important critical links missing from yours, the main being if the Beale/Morriss meetings as related in the pamphlet ever really occurred, if it was a Lafitte/French/Bonapartist "connexion", what was Beale's role and why choose Morriss, and the chain of custody from Morriss to Ward, who became the copyright owner.
Until these issues are addressed and resolved, a leap of belief outside of the Beale buffalo hunt story is required to take the strawman hayride.

 

[bigscoop]

...and you can't prove beyond a reasonable doubt the connection between Adams_Onis, Champ d' Asile, Bonapartists, Lafitte, or if Mexico Sherman ever spoke to John Sherman.
The doubts you hold concerning the dime novel theory are not so different from the doubts I hold with your proposed premise and theory. There are important critical links missing from yours, the main being if the Beale/Morriss meetings as related in the pamphlet ever really occurred, if it was a Lafitte/French/Bonapartist "connexion", what was Beale's role and why choose Morriss, and the chain of custody from Morriss to Ward, who became the copyright owner.
Until these issues are addressed and resolved, a leap of belief outside of the Beale buffalo hunt story is required to take the strawman hayride.

....I call shotgun! But when you show me that same conclusive collaborating evidence I'll bring the wagon to a stop so you can get off.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

You've even given me a great idea for a book....."The Red Herring Diaries".....the plot is based around the notion that after the herring are smoked they do in fact turn a shade of red. So the main character eventually learns that what didn't exist before the smoking process does really exist afterwards.

LOL! Just a matter of "turning up the heat"; OR! Just a "SLOW COOKER"! HA!

 

[Rebel - KGC]

....I call shotgun! But when you show me that same conclusive collaborating evidence I'll bring the wagon to a stop so you can get off.

Maybe, SOON...?