The Solution Rest Here.....

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bigscoop said:
They're definitely intentional, designed "constructs" by the unknown author, that's for sure, as was connexions. At least you agree on that much.
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Is there any evidence outside of 1885 Beale that Beale and Morriss did indeed have actual contact? Or was their inclusion a definitely intentional literary device to provide believability in the story, the ciphers(the solved cipher also induces believability), and the treasure?
 

I've explained my thinking as to why the pamphlet was published many times in these forms. Your author even tells you why in the pamphlet if you read it very carefully. All of this is further explained in the download, Connexions, which you can access in the classifieds of this site.
 

L.C. BAKER said:
I guess what I am after is the motive to publish the ciphers.

L.C.
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MY "opinion", based on years of R & I... Beale Ciphers 1 & 3 are RUSES... gibberish that even computers can not "break"; BC # 2 is also a RUSE... NOTHING; does DOI REALLY "fit"...? Dunno. MOTIVE: to lead ppl ("mass market") away from the story within a story...
 

ECS said:
Is there any evidence outside of 1885 Beale that Beale and Morriss did indeed have actual contact? Or was their inclusion a definitely intentional literary device to provide believability in the story, the ciphers(the solved cipher also induces believability), and the treasure?
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NONE; NO "contact" b/c they BOTH were literary "devices" to tell a story; I like what Richard/Brad said... something like the only "worth" of Thomas Beale... is the "USE" of his name (Fincastle, Va.). Robert MORRISS is based on former Mayor of Lynchburg, Va. (1813), Robert MORRIS and his wife Sarah. FIRST "use" of Robert MORRISS "story" is by Mrs. Cabell, in her "book" (really papers, NOT to be published as a book), 1858. She died before the Committee of 1882, so she either talked to someone, prior to her death... OR! Her "book" was utilized for the section of Beale PAPERS, on Robert & Sarah MORRISS.
 

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Rebel - KGC said:
NONE; NO "contact" b/c they BOTH were literary "devices" to tell a story; I like what Richard/Brad said... something like the only "worth" of Thomas Beale... is the "USE" of his name (Fincastle, Va.). Robert MORRISS is based on former Mayor of Lynchburg, Va. (1813), and his wife Sarah. FIRST "use" of Robert MORRISS "story" is by Mrs. Cabell, in her "book" (really papers, NOT to be published as a book), 1858. She died before the Committee of 1882, so she either talked to someone, prior to her death... OR! Her "book" was utilized for the section of Beale PAPERS, on Robert & Sarah MORRISS.
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If Beale and Morriss were used as a literary device, and their interaction never occurred, but is the very basis of the Beale treasure story , then the entire work, including the Beale expedition, the ciphers, and the treasure would be considered fruit from the poisoned tree.
Which brings us back to a western/treasure dime novel( similar to what Sherman wrote)that sold in Lynchberg for 50 cents a copy.
 

ECS said:
If Beale and Morriss were used as a literary device, and their interaction never occurred, but is the very basis of the Beale treasure story , then the entire work, including the Beale expedition, the ciphers, and the treasure would be considered fruit from the poisoned tree.
Which brings us back to a western/treasure dime novel( similar to what Sherman wrote)that sold in Lynchberg for 50 cents a copy.
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Then again, if such an interaction did occur (early 1800s), then they wouldn't have advertised it. The interaction, by it's very nature, would have been covert.
 

ECS said:
If Beale and Morriss were used as a literary device, and their interaction never occurred, but is the very basis of the Beale treasure story , then the entire work, including the Beale expedition, the ciphers, and the treasure would be considered fruit from the poisoned tree.
Which brings us back to a western/treasure dime novel( similar to what Sherman wrote)that sold in Lynchberg for 50 cents a copy.
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John William Sherman was PROBABLY on the Committee... dunno.
 

It does bring us back to Hutter, Sherman, and Ward, and the events at Danville, April, 1865. Maybe the word "connexion" directs one to the French copy of Vattel's LAW OF NATIONS that was given to E S Hutter by CSA Sec of State Judah P Benjamin.
 

Old Silver said:
Then again, if such an interaction did occur (early 1800s), then they wouldn't have advertised it. The interaction, by it's very nature, would have been covert.
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In 1885 Beale it was mentioned that the ladies found Beale to be handsome.So, according to the pamphlet, it was not covert.
 

ECS said:
It does bring us back to Hutter, Sherman, and Ward, and the events at Danville, April, 1865. Maybe the word "connexion" directs one to the French copy of Vattel's LAW OF NATIONS that was given to E S Hutter by CSA Sec of State Judah P Benjamin.
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Well, it MAY have been in FRENCH... dunno; COULD be in the Confederacy Museum in Richmond, Va.
 

Maj. E. S. Hutter... in Danville, Va. never indicated if VLoN was in French.
 

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ECS said:
It does bring us back to Hutter, Sherman, and Ward, and the events at Danville, April, 1865. Maybe the word "connexion" directs one to the French copy of Vattel's LAW OF NATIONS that was given to E S Hutter by CSA Sec of State Judah P Benjamin.
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Maybe; VLoN is "on-line", in ENGLISH... "LEGALESE" (language of Lawyers...).
 

"Chain of Custody" of VLoN... JPB -> ESH at Danville, Va.; Maj. ES Hutter told his brother, Maj. FC Hutter (CSA Pay-Master)
about VLoN. Post-CONFEDERATE WAR... ES Hutter gave VLoN to son-in-law, Attorney Gibbs in Lynchburg, Va. LOST "track" of it after that.
 

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ECS said:
In 1885 Beale it was mentioned that the ladies found Beale to be handsome.So, according to the pamphlet, it was not covert.
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That's why I worded that post the way I did. IF the Beale story is true, then it happened in the early 1800s, and the meetings would have been kept secret. At least the words spoken would have been secret.
Beale would not have advertised that he had buried a treasure and left a coded message with Robert Morriss.
 

Covert. I can think of endless covert operations that were carried out in broad daylight. Some types of espionage, for instance, even require it. And other then what was shared between Morriss and Beale I saw nothing in the story that indicated that Beale had gone public with any of it?

What is "puzzling" to me, anyway, is that if Beale was Beale senior then why didn't anyone know who he was or where he was from? Morriss was said to know just about everyone in the region, and beyond, so you would certainly think that Beale Sr. would have been known, especially after his duel with Risque. So why didn't anyone know him?

On the other hand, if Beale was from distant western portion of the land.....well, maybe that might explain why nobody in the region knew him. But then again, I believe Morriss even hints in this western direction, so maybe Morriss did know more about him then he was telling?
 

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Well, it IS interesting... 1964 book by P. Innis was FIRST MASS-MARKET info, YET! HART PAPERS by George L. Hart was released in 1952, indicating a similar, more detailed "story". Then, books by Peter Viemeister REALLY got the "PUBLIC" excited. HOWEVER, NSA sent agents to Lynchburg, Va. during WW II to check what "downtown folks" knew about it... NOTHING!
BUT! The Friedmans, (NSA)... especially Mrs. Friedman, knew SOMETHING! Connected to VMI, where her papers on "BT" were stated to be at the Marshall Foundation Research Library. BEEN THERE... found NOTHING! Could have been a DENIAL... dunno.
 

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LETTERS written by TJB to RM, in the Beale PAPERS

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