The Peralta Stones

lamar said:
Dear group;
I think the point is that nobody can state with any degree of accuracy what were original designs and intentions of the stone maps, therefore how can anyone state with any accuracy that the stone maps point the way to the LDM? The same can also be stated about the Bilbrey crosses and the Latin heart. Nobody has yet to decipher any one of those item, therefore how can anyone state that the items in question are even related to the LDM? For all anyone may know, the items may very well be for an entirely different purpose and it is upon this that I rest my hypothesis, my friends.
Your friend;
LAMAR
Click to expand...

I think that's a pretty fair assessment of things and one in which I happen to share your opinion.
 

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Dear cubfan64;
It's actually the only correct way to look at it, my friend. Someone comes along and stumbles upon some stone carvings. This in and of itself is suspect but to add fuel to the fire, he immediately proclaims that they somehow point the way to the Lost Dutchman's Mine. How could he have possibly known this for a fact if he were not able to make heads or tails of the carvings, my friend? It's a classic example of argumentum ad 1gn0rantiam or appeal to ignorance in English.

It's a common fallacy that an argument is true simply because the premise cannot be proven as false. It stems from the human desire to want to know and explain everything, and whenever we witness something which we cannot readily explain, we strive to find a way to make it fit, no matter what sort of flights of fancy need to be taken in the process.

Someone can state with authority something such as "The grammar is completely wrong and the spell is atrocious" and someone else will come along and try to explain that discrepency away, no matter how illogical the argument becomes. We can take the crystal skulls as another fine example. We know from studying the skulls under microscopes that the tools used to produce the skulls are from the modern era and that the quartz used to produce the skulls was mined in Italy, yet there exists legions of people who try and explain away these facts.

Because we have the ability to discern between historical cultures we can scrutinize a questionable item and ascertain with a fair degree of reliabilty from which era the item was made. This is where the Peralta stones come into the picture my friend. The caricatures are cartoons, and I mean this is the literal sense of the word. Cartoons, as an art, were unknown until the last century. The very first cartoon modern character was Mickey Mouse.

it is obvious that the carvings on the stones are of the same art style and there exists no example of a horse or a witch that was drawn in the mid 1850s which even remotely resembles the ones on the stones. We can look at the dagger, replete with a thumb guard and history tells us that this style of thumb guard was virtually unknown until the mid 1840s and it did not reach popularity until after the Civil War.

In other words, the dagger depicted is in facta rendering of a Bowie knife, except that Bowie knives in the mid 1800s looked nothing like the modern era Bowies and the Bowie knife in the carving is definitely a modern-era Bowie. Fr. Polzer reviewed the stone carvings and he determined them to be modern renderings. Likewise, scores of other highly reputable historians have done the same and their collective verdicts were all the same.

Yet, in spite of this, there remains those whom prefer to believe that the stone maps represent something more than which they seem to proclaim.
Your friend;
LAMAR
 

"It stems from the human desire to (((((("not want any one Know"))))) and explain everything, and whenever we witness something which we cannot readily explain, we strive to find a way to "NOT" make it fit," "no matter what sort of flights of fancy WE need to take in the process." THIS EXACTLY EXPLAINS WHAT YOU ARE DOING OR TRYING TO DO! "ANY TIME THE TRUTH WAS PRESENTED TO YOU YOU WOULD TRY TO SAY IT WAS FALSE"

"THE TRUTH IS YOU CANT MAKE IT FALSE WHEN ITS ABSOLUTELY TRUE" WHO IN THEIR RIGHT MIND WOULD EVER TRY TO DO THAT???? OH I FORGOT YOUR "LEFT MINDED" I KNOW ITS VERY HARD TO EXCEPT WHEN YOU HAVE BEEN DEFEATED ITS "HUMAN NATURE" ITS NEVER TO LATE TO COME OVER TO THE RIGHT SIDE! AT LEAST THATS WHAT CACTUS BELIEVES!
 

THE FACTS, AND THE TRUTH ,ARE (((("THE STONE MAPS AND THE CROSSESS AND THE SATTELITE PICTURE OF THE LOCATION MATCH UP PERFECTLY")))) THERE IS NO WAY ANY ONE WILL EVER CHANGE THOSE FACTS!!!!!!!!!!! NO MATTER HOW HARD THEY TRY THE TRUTH CANNOT BE CHANGED!!!!!!!!! IM SORRY BUT SOME THINGS CANNOT BE CHANGED THE TRUTH BEING A VERY GOOD EXAMPLE!
 

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value=" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
 

A non-disclosure agreement (NDA), also known as a confidentiality agreement, confidential disclosure agreement (CDA), proprietary information agreement (PIA), or secrecy agreement, is a legal contract between at least two parties that outlines confidential material, knowledge, or information that the parties wish to share with one another for certain purposes, but wish to restrict access to by third parties. It is a contract through which the parties agree not to disclose information covered by the agreement. An NDA creates a confidential relationship between the parties to protect any type of confidential and proprietary information or trade secrets. As such, an NDA protects non-public business information.

NDAs are commonly signed when two companies, individuals, or other entities (such as partnerships, societies, etc.) are considering doing business and need to understand the processes used in each others business for the purpose of evaluating the potential business relationship. NDAs can be "mutual", meaning both parties are restricted in their use of the materials provided, or they can restrict the use of material by a single party.

It is also possible for an employee to sign an NDA or NDA-like agreement with an employer. In fact, some employment agreements will include a clause restricting employees' use and dissemination of company-owned "confidential information."

In rare cases, the contract may state that the existence of the NDA itself cannot be disclosed.[1] ((((("THIS WOULD HAVE BEEN THE EASIEST WAY TO SHUT ME UP"))))) BUT OBVIOUSLY YOU LIKE DOING THINGS THE HARD WAY! YOU GUYS MADE YOUR BEDS SO NOW >>>"LIE"<<< IN THEM GOOD LUCK!
 

Santa Fe New Mexican - as I replied in another thread, there is ONE type of evidence which would prove it beyond doubt TO ME - a sample of the ore from the mine, which can be compared by a geologist with the known examples - if the geologist says it is a match, that is very like fingerprints or DNA, solid proof. Many people have claimed to have found the Lost Dutchman, yet do not have even a walnut size sample of the ore - and the Superstitions are literally dotted with the old prospect holes and tunnels left by earlier Dutch hunters. All too often, a modern hunter of the Lost Dutchman finds one of these old holes, and it seems to "fit" the stone maps or a set of clues, and concludes that was the Lost Dutchman mine - when it was nothing but a hole in the ground dug by wishful thinking Dutch hunters who also thought the site matched the "clues" or maps. . It is virtually impossible to extract ALL of the gold ore from any mine, so even specimens found on the tailings pile will have bits of ore that will do for the purposes of a comparison. Do you have a specimen of ore from the site you found, which could be compared by a geologist? Thank you in advance,
Oroblanco
 

THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN A FANTASTIC DEFENSE IN THE DAYS BEFORE GOOGLE EARTH SATTELITE IMAGERY AND PROBABLY WAS? BUT IN TODAYS WORLD THAT "THEORY DOES NOT APPLY" AS THE ORE COULD HAVE BEEN EXHAUSTED FROM THE AREA! HOWEVER THE SATTELITE IMAGES, AND STONE MAPS AND CROSSES WERE ENOUGH TO TO PROOVE THE EXISTANCE IN IN MY CASE!
 

So, Santa Fe NM,

You are telling me that the stone maps were made after these guys took a ride in a hot air balloon to place the drawings on the ground? The Nazca lines were straight-right angled and perpendicular lines that were drawn on the ground because they had a mathematical formula made to scale and duplicated it on the ground.

I will tell you a problem with Google Earth that many people fail to realize; the real time earth features are frozen when the satellite photos are taken. If it was taken at two in the afternoon as opposed to 12:00 PM you would not see your priest or number/letters. Now, just wait another three months and you may see an elephant or a giraffe. It is a phenomena similar to cloud reading. Look at the bunny rabbit Billy, no its a dragon Ronnie, uh-uh its a fairy princess Rhonda. By the way when I try to draw the lines around the earth forms that you believe exist I find other shapes and objects that will fit however yours do not! I have worked with two of the best known Scientists who have ever lived and they have worked with satellite this and that most of their lives. Take a look at some of my earlier posts concerning real satellite imagery and learn my friend. Anyone can look at clouds and find any kind of animal they want. Unfortunately you are doing the same. Talk to a professional landsat satellite scientist my friend. That is exactly what I had to do because I suffered from the exact same anomaly you are. Every where I look on the ground from Google I could see amazing things that were actually not there.

Seems to me like you have a problem trying to ram your beliefs down every ones throat. Learn to present your finds and let others decide if you are right or wrong and do not get bent out of shape if they do not agree with you. I really enjoyed this forum as it was constructive and fun. When I see your posts I just want to pass them buy as you are to combative and uncivilized.

We all love constructive criticism here and I hope you can except the same. I do like you and your info regarding E town.

Hey, I am not trying to run you off, for a teacher can learn from his student and vice versa.

I would like to meet you someday and show you the sights and spend some time going into the Soups and hangin out.

Your friend.

EB
 

Santa Fe NM - that is no "fantastic defense" but a simple request for a type of evidence that even the experts cannot argue with. Claims that "all the ore was exhausted" do not fly - you can find bits of ore at ANY old gold mine, regardless of how efficient the miners were. I take it that you do not have any specimen of the ore? Without the ore, which is a clincher, I have to say that I remain (respectfully) un-convinced of your claims.
Oroblanco
 

(I HAVE EVERY INTENTION OF BEING YOUR FRIEND AND HANGING OUT.) AND WHEN IT COMES TO OTHERS VIEW POINT "I ALWAYS LISTEN" I AM VERY OPEN MINDED IF IT MAKES SENSE? AND BELIEVE ME EVERY THING MAKES PERFECT SENSE IM NOT STUPID AND NIETHER ARE YOU! I GREW UP ON A RANCH I KNOW LANDSCAPES MY FRIEND AND I NEVER USED GOOGLE EARTH. I CONSIDER MY SELF MORE OF A MOUNTAIN MAN THAN YOU OR ANY ONE HERE. I KNOW WHAT TO LOOK FOR IN LANDSCAPES I KNOW WHEN SOMETHING IS OUT OF THE ORDINARY. WE CAN GO HORSE BACK RIDING IN THE SUPERS TOGETHER. ALL I EVER WANTED WAS TO BE YOUR FRIEND!
 

"DO I HAVE ORE" THATS A VERY GOOD QUESTION "I NEVER SAID I DID NOT" AND "I NEVER SAID I DID" WHAT I DID SAY WAS "THE MAPS AND THE SATTELITE PHOTO LINE UP SO PERFECTLY THAT GOOGLE EARTH NASA JIM HATT AND THE WHITE HOUSE CONFIRMED IT" I SAID THE GOLD MAY HAVE BEEN EXHAUSTED BUT I DID NOT SAY IT WAS EXHAUSTED I GUESS IF IT GOES TO COURT THEN EVERY ONE WILL FIND OUT! "RIGHT NOW" THE GOLD IS THE LEAST OF MY WORRYS AND THE MOST OF YOURS! IF IT REALLY WORRYS YOU GO TAKE AN ORE SAMPLE YOUR MORE THAN WELCOME.
 

("John V. Kemm already has it located, registered and all locked up. Maybe I should wait until he fattens up his bank account real nice, before I file Copyright Infringement Litigation against him." Jim Hatt)
 

HOLA Compadre Santa FE: You posted -->I CONSIDER MY SELF MORE OF A MOUNTAIN MAN THAN YOU OR ANY ONE HERE.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
a kinda broad statement my friend. Some of our posters in here can give you a run for your money. I can name several, but will only mention our Oro /ROY
**************************************************************
You also posted -> ALL I EVER WANTED WAS TO BE YOUR FRIEND!
~~~~~~~~~~~~
And you are. what is your problem? We all are friends in here, but they have given me a very bad time in the past. seeking the truth of my posts, just as you also question other's posts. hehee

Don Jose de La Mancha
 

Santa Fe New Mexico,

Not sure if you understand, but typing in all capital letters is the equivalent of shouting. Are you meaning to shout?


I just have one question about the Peralta Stones matching up with an image on Google Earth.

The stones are supposed to be 100+ years old (so the 1964 story goes). Which would mean they were made (again supposedly) 1864. However, in 1887, there was an earthquake - the Bavaspi, I believe, but not positive. The area changed, the Superstitions were said to move so much that it looked for some seconds like an active volcano.

That would mean that, as of 1887, the topography was no longer the same - in other words, different than the Stones. So, how would the current topography on Google Earth match up with something that no longer existed in the same form?

B
 

Beth,

I don't believe the topography of the Superstitions changed much.......at all. There were probably some landslides, which would have raised the dust that was seen, but the range was not hit hard. The proof of that can be seen everywhere:

Air10.jpg


GuardandMasssacre_.jpg


GuardsonRidge.jpg


RidgeGuards.jpg


This is just a small sample, some are much more dramatic.

The Stone Maps themselves, are very accurate.

Take care,

Joe
 

CJ,

So you think a few rocks being on top of other rocks is proof that nothing changed?

I know you know better than that - all you have to do is go to California.

That particular earthquake changed the Sulphur Springs Valley forever. (Cochise County) Sulphur Springs was actually gone, disappeared into the earth.

How would you know now about any landslides that happened then? Witnesses after the quake disagree with you - people who were there at the time. 60-70 seconds of shaking can take quite the toll - and since most reports from then SAY that there was dust and debris and swaying and shaking of the mountains - I tend to believe that it is probably true. (just my opinion).

I've been up in the Superstitions - many a time - there is a lot of evidence of previous landslides.

B

By the way - in was a 7.5 earthquake.

Here is a newspaper headline:


REMARKABLE EFFECT OF AN EARTHQUAKE IN ARIZONA.

SEVERAL MOUNTAIN PEAKS CRUMBLE NEATH THE SHOCK -- OTHERS SUDDENLY DEVELOP INTO BLAZING VOLCANOES -- MUCH DAMAGE TO PROPERTY.
 

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