The Peralta Stones

[Cubfan64]

So, what you are saying, Lamar, is that two different people couldn't spell?

B

Dear mrs.oroblanco;
No, I do not feel that the lettering was composed by two different people, rather the lettering was composed by one person yet the horse stone and the witch stone were carved by two completely different people. The sentence construction is the same for both stones, which leads me to believe that one person wrote the phrases for both stones down on paper then that person had two different stone carvers do the works.

Let's examine the misspelled word COAZON on the witch stone for a bit. Obviously the person who carved the stone meant to spell the word COAZON instead of spelling it properly as CORAZON. One very plausible reason for this error would be that the carver was carving the sentence from a hand written sheet of paper written by someone else, and the handwritten R looked similar to an A, and not knowing Spanish, the carver mistook the R for an A and wrote it as such instead of correcting the spelling.
Your friend;
LAMAR

Doesn't that only work if the handwritten word was CORZON which is also incorrectly spelled?

As for different persons doing work on the stones, it's been noticed and discussed before.

 

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[lamar]

So, what you are saying, Lamar, is that two different people couldn't spell?

B

Dear mrs.oroblanco;
No, I do not feel that the lettering was composed by two different people, rather the lettering was composed by one person yet the horse stone and the witch stone were carved by two completely different people. The sentence construction is the same for both stones, which leads me to believe that one person wrote the phrases for both stones down on paper then that person had two different stone carvers do the works.

Let's examine the misspelled word COAZON on the witch stone for a bit. Obviously the person who carved the stone meant to spell the word COAZON instead of spelling it properly as CORAZON. One very plausible reason for this error would be that the carver was carving the sentence from a hand written sheet of paper written by someone else, and the handwritten R looked similar to an A, and not knowing Spanish, the carver mistook the R for an A and wrote it as such instead of correcting the spelling.
Your friend;
LAMAR

Doesn't that only work if the handwritten word was CORZON which is also incorrectly spelled?

As for different persons doing work on the stones, it's been noticed and discussed before.

Dear Cubfan64;
I honestly have no idea if the subject has been broached in the past, as the stones are quite obviously not what they are purported to be, which are guides to the LDM. I was asked to scrutinize the stone maps to give my opinion on their validity. I did this without first researching prior opinions on the validity of the stone maps in order to remain open minded and uninfluenced by previous examinations.

After my own examination I then read the opinions of others and we all seem to be in agreement with the findings. I have always maintained that the intended purpose of the stone maps remains in doubt and they could very likely have been carved to rely something completely different from what everyone assumes, that they point to the location of the LDM. I maintain this opinion simply because there does not exist any credible evidence on the stone maps which would lend credence that they were in fact made in order to lead one to the LDM.

As a disclaimer, I have never read of anyone else discussing the possibility that the stone maps were carved by more than one person, but then again why would I spend an inordinate amount of time researching a subject which is clearly a dead end? My summation of the stone maps is solely my own opinion and it remains uninfluenced by those who examined the stone maps before me.
Your friend;
LAMAR

 

[Cubfan64]

For myself, I really have no educated opinion on the stone maps themselves. I've never seen them in person and never personally tried to "interpret" them or connect them to any specific location. Because of that and the fact that I've only read a little about them, I tend to keep my uninformed opinions to myself until/unless I decide to put in enough research to draw my own conclusions, but that's just me.

As far as "EVERYONE ASSUMES" they lead to the LDM - I know that's one of several theories, but I don't believe it's at the top of the list - it may not even be second.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Good morning my friends: I have to have the maid make the coffee stronger, I am still 1/2 asleep. But try as I may, I fail to see enough of a distinctive difference to flatly say they were carved by different persons.

The 'A's are almost identical on both, as well as various other letters. As for the spelling, one must remember that we are dealing with what could be a map. As such it would be very foolhardy to have everything in clear, correct language and directions.

In fact, the spelling error, if it is done with intention, could be the next clue, and on.
While the map may be topographically quite accurate , the 'purpose' of the map is questionable, hence it could have hidden or suggestive data.

The '8' could be a crude example, but it is quite curious that all of the other letters , no., etc are cut cleanly in comparison, but not it? So it 'could' have been constructed that way on purpose, so that it called attention to something further on in an '8' sequence ?, possibly also not perfectly / cleanly cut ?

I guess that one of these days I will have to seriously study them.

Don Jose de La Mancha (Tropical Tramp

 

[Ellie Baba]

Bueynos Diaz,

He was a good friend of mine and passed away a few years ago. The horse shoes originated from the old "Heart Cross Ranch" near Cochran, AZ. Actually, the daughter of the owners of said ranch was born in one of the Coke Ovens. Her mom or dud was a circus entertainer. A newspaper article was written a few years ago by the Arizona Epublic I believe. I cannot find the file concerning this article. I will keep searching for it in the meantime, cause I know I put it somewhere where I could lay my hands on it. So much info and not much room.

I am a great speller and the words above were mis-spelled on purpose. If I had not mentioned my buddy Bueynos you would have thought I had mis-spelled Buenos Dias, right? What a bunch of maroons, hee, hee, hee.

Ellie Baba

 

[Jim Hatt]

The only way to “gauge” the validity of any map is to have some parallel information to compare it to.

One way would be to compare it to a proven map of the same area it is suspected of applying to.

Another is to go to the area it is assumed to apply to, and see if it matches the terrain in that area.

Even then… A lot of consideration would have to be given to how detailed, or ambiguous the map maker intended the map to be, and any security factors may be incorporated into it. Especially if the map was believed to lead to anything of value. Anyone who looks at a treasure map, or a map that leads to a lost mine, and immediately starts forming conclusions based on superficial observations, is not someone whose opinion I would put much faith in.

Judging the validity of any map, by the spelling and grammar used on it, the material it was drawn on, or any subjective opinions, about the meaning of any symbols on it, is utterly ridiculous, no matter who the author might have been, or when it was believed to have been drawn.

Lamar Wrote:

“This is some sort of joke, isn't it? The evidence against the stone maps being carved before the 1940s is pretty much ENDLESS! FOr example:
The style of the lettering
The style of caricatures (figures)
The Bowie knife
The shape of the heart
The position of the brand on the horse
The so-called *Spanish* words used
The grammar
The tools used to carve the stone maps”

Lamar may believe that his reasons stated above are valid reasons for dismissing the validity of the stone maps.
But they sure don't work for me.

Jim Hatt

 

[cactusjumper]

Jim,

Nice to see you back here with the personal attacks.

For your information Lamar is well known to a number of people on this forum, and it's his real name. His last name is also known to a number of people. Jan, Lone Wolf.....etc. are names used anonymously. No doubt you're familiar enough to recognize how that works.

Opposing opinions are how most forums work. Lamar's opinions are as good as anyone Else's.

Joe Ribaudo

 

[Jim Hatt]

Joe,

Are you implying that "Lamar" is on a level with "Cher" or "Elvis" where only a part of his name is needed for recognition and accountability?

Best,

Jim

 

[cactusjumper]

Ellie,

"He was a good friend of mine and passed away a few years ago. The horse shoes originated from the old "Heart Cross Ranch" near Cochran, AZ."

When FEMF first posted the pictures of those shoes, I looked into the Heart/Cross thingie. I found the "Heart Cross Ranch" in that search. I guessed that the shoes might have come from there, but did not pursue the information further.

My first thought on seeing the picture, was that it related to a brand, and that's the direction I searched. I remember thinking that the ranch may have had their shoes manufactured in bulk lots by......Le Croix.

Nice to hear the rest of the story.

Take care,

Joe

 

[lamar]

Good morning my friends: I have to have the maid make the coffee stronger, I am still 1/2 asleep. But try as I may, I fail to see enough of a distinctive difference to flatly say they were carved by different persons.

The 'A's are almost identical on both, as well as various other letters. As for the spelling, one must remember that we are dealing with what could be a map. As such it would be very foolhardy to have everything in clear, correct language and directions.

In fact, the spelling error, if it is done with intention, could be the next clue, and on.
While the map may be topographically quite accurate , the 'purpose' of the map is questionable, hence it could have hidden or suggestive data.

The '8' could be a crude example, but it is quite curious that all of the other letters , no., etc are cut cleanly in comparison, but not it? So it 'could' have been constructed that way on purpose, so that it called attention to something further on in an '8' sequence ?, possibly also not perfectly / cleanly cut ?

I guess that one of these days I will have to seriously study them.

Don Jose de La Mancha (Tropical Tramp

Dear Real de Tayopa;
Take a few moments and study the letter A on the horse stone. Every letter A is identical to it's fellow, in that the overall shape of the letter remains constant and also the crossbar of the A starts low on the left hand side and rises higher on the right hand side.

Now, examine the witch stone and study the examples of the letter A on it. Notice how the A is in classical Roman style lettering, with the crossbars of all of the A's being perfectly horizontal.

In short, the lettering on each stone remains constant in style throughout the entire individual stone, yet the styles are different between the two stones.
Your friend;
LAMAR

 

[FEMF]

Bueynos Diaz,

He was a good friend of mine and passed away a few years ago. The horse shoes originated from the old "Heart Cross Ranch" near Cochran, AZ. Actually, the daughter of the owners of said ranch was born in one of the Coke Ovens. Her mom or dud was a circus entertainer. A newspaper article was written a few years ago by the Arizona Epublic I believe. I cannot find the file concerning this article. I will keep searching for it in the meantime, cause I know I put it somewhere where I could lay my hands on it. So much info and not much room.

I am a great speller and the words above were mis-spelled on purpose. If I had not mentioned my buddy Bueynos you would have thought I had mis-spelled Buenos Dias, right? What a bunch of maroons, hee, hee, hee.

Ellie Baba

Hello Ellie Baba
We didn't find the horse shoes in the Supers! If these shoes are from your friend, he was a very long ways from Home. Please Post that article when you find it. I've checked Arizona Brands and all of them have to have an opening and the one closes is a cross in a open heart!
Mike
I'm around, just not posting a lot. Thanks for sharing your Jesuit research, all of us are benefitting from it.
FEMF

 

[cactusjumper]

Jim,

"Are you implying that "Lamar" is on a level with "Cher" or "Elvis" where only a part of his name is needed for recognition and accountability?"

Yes, I would say that is true for TreasureNet. His name is recognized and his posts provide either negative or positive accountability, depending on which side of the debate you come down on.

While Lamar and I have often been at odds over "facts", I still consider him an Internet friend. I prefer to judge him by the content of his posts, not the manner in which he writes his opinions.

Joe Ribaudo

 

[FEMF]

Good morning my friends: I have to have the maid make the coffee stronger, I am still 1/2 asleep. But try as I may, I fail to see enough of a distinctive difference to flatly say they were carved by different persons.

The 'A's are almost identical on both, as well as various other letters. As for the spelling, one must remember that we are dealing with what could be a map. As such it would be very foolhardy to have everything in clear, correct language and directions.

In fact, the spelling error, if it is done with intention, could be the next clue, and on.
While the map may be topographically quite accurate , the 'purpose' of the map is questionable, hence it could have hidden or suggestive data.

The '8' could be a crude example, but it is quite curious that all of the other letters , no., etc are cut cleanly in comparison, but not it? So it 'could' have been constructed that way on purpose, so that it called attention to something further on in an '8' sequence ?, possibly also not perfectly / cleanly cut ?

I guess that one of these days I will have to seriously study them.

Don Jose de La Mancha (Tropical Tramp

Dear Real de Tayopa;
Take a few moments and study the letter A on the horse stone. Every letter A is identical to it's fellow, in that the overall shape of the letter remains constant and also the crossbar of the A starts low on the left hand side and rises higher on the right hand side.

Now, examine the witch stone and study the examples of the letter A on it. Notice how the A is in classical Roman style lettering, with the crossbars of all of the A's being perfectly horizontal.

In short, the lettering on each stone remains constant in style throughout the entire individual stone, yet the styles are different between the two stones.
Your friend;
LAMAR

Lamar
There two sides of the same stone!
FEMF

 

[Jim Hatt]

Yes, I would say that is true for TreasureNet. His name is recognized and his posts provide either negative or positive accountability, depending on which side of the debate you come down on.

Joe Ribaudo

Excuse my ignorance but the name "Lamar" means nothing to me.

I prefer to judge him by the content of his posts,

Joe Ribaudo

Please excuse me again, but I am quite sure I did that very thing, and made it pretty clear.

Best,

Jim

 

[lamar]

Joe,

Are you implying that "Lamar" is on a level with "Cher" or "Elvis" where only a part of his name is needed for recognition and accountability?

Best,

Jim

Dear Jim Hatt;

Your friend;
LAMAR

 

[Jim Hatt]

Lamar,

If you can't deal with the subject... Quick change it to something else that you can deal with?

I am very familiar with that maneuver. It leaves your character wide open for attack.

But I'll pass on that one.

Best,

Jim

 

[cactusjumper]

Jim,

"If you can't deal with the subject... Quick change it to something else that you can deal with? I am very familiar with that maneuver. That leaves your character wide open for attack."

How well we know.......

Joe Ribaudo

 

[lamar]

Lamar,

If you can't deal with the subject... Quick change it to something else that you can deal with?

I am very familiar with that maneuver. It leaves your character wide open for attack.

But I'll pass on that one.

Best,

Jim

Dear Jim Hatt;
Personally I don't care what you decide to attack or not attack. If it makes you feel somewhat superior, then by all means, attack away.
Your friend;
LAMAR

 

[lamar]

Dear group;
I thought that the *Thank you very much* video insert was fairly comical in regards to Jim Hatt referring to me as being on the same level as The King. Oh, and thank you very much......
Your love me tender friend;
LAMAR

 

[mrs.oroblanco]

I don't get on Tnet like I used to, so, by the time I answer something, or ask a question, there are already 40 answers and discussions that have gone by (though I read all of them).

Back to the stones and Moel. I'm not sure about the relationship between Moel and the stones - from a legal standpoint - Mike.

BUT - as I did with my FOIA request, I asked specifically WHY the Feds would have had the stones, if they were not involved, how they obtained them, a copy of all paperwork the government - both Fed and SEC used to even LOOK at the stones etc.

The issue for me, here, being - we have had no proof that Moel was using the stones. If that is the case, then the Feds should have never had their hands on them. You cannot subpoena the stones as evidence if there is no relation to Mitchell's case.

And, by the way, Mike - why you would fax it (FOIA), I don't know - you can email it, and I have already gotten a letter back and a confirmation number from them.

Beth