The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

[ConceptualizedNetherlandr]

um uh that was the point.. anyways on a serious note i am moving onto the horse map of the peralta stones. i will look them over right now and it shouldnt take me but an hour or two to figure out the area of the treasure that awaits.. everyone one here(with a detector)will be invited to go because like i said earlier i run with a harbor freight detector special.. i have modded it though. i installed a flex-capacitor and a 7th fetzer valve on it.

Ahem. "flux capacitor"

 

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[deducer]

ok now on a serious note about the stone maps.. i am wondering if anyone has any RECENT theories on where/when they were made and where is the starting point possibly and why..dont even give me weavers needle...i personally am going to check out a spot that i think contains one of the BIG troves. guess that one will be 35 feet down but hoping maybe a peon was stashin for a later date.. ut of course all the peons woulda been buried w/ the treasure.

You may want to try reading this entire thread from PAGE ONE. You'll see plenty of theories put forth. You're not going to find any "recent" theories, because if you can think one up, chances are good that someone has already thought it. No need to try to think that you're reinventing the wheel.

Also there are six pages worth of threads under "The Lost Dutchman's Mine" topic. Do yourself a favor and look them over.

 

[ConceptualizedNetherlandr]

I haven't seen anything close to my theory on here. Doesn't make it the right one but I guess ya look at google long enough you can make it fit. I did anyways. I have read all the pages. And the one that gollum started on the stones. I just find it hard to believe that their isn't one archaeologist or history fanatic that hasn't put anytime into the stones.

What - exactly - does that last sentence mean

 

[markmar]

Sarge

If you have found the cypher of the stone map trail , tell us : why the trail is carved on two stones instead one ?

I believe how the trail could been carved on a single stone . Who knows the answer , have found the EL TESORO DE LOS EGLESIA DE SANTA FE .

 

[markmar]

You are the horse

Is not easiest to hide a treasure in a mine tunnel , instead to dig a cave from the beginning ? Of course was a mining region . Has five mines , and the one is " EL CURVA DE LOS SOMEO MONTANA " with the treasure .

 

[cactusjumper]

ya never read about studies on em is all.they were found, looked at by the FBI, copied and the copies(i think)are at the musuem over in aj somewhere

Horse,

Lost Dutchman Gold Mine - Arizona Superstition Mountain Wilderness - Gold Mining ? Search

Good luck,

Joe Ribaudo

 

[cactusjumper]

All,

This post by Beth conforms with the information I received from the Desert Archaeology folks......a few years ago:
________________________________________________________

Mike,

I'm not sure how you determined their methods (looking with microscope or otherwise), but, I will repost the reports I got, and leave it at that, since, I forgot that when I posted them before, they were deleted (not by this forum). Just so anyone/everyone can see what was said at the time, who said it, and their credentials.

First one:

From: Jenny Adams <jenny@desert.com>
Subject: Peralta stones
To: oroblanco@yahoo.com
Date: Tuesday, July 20, 2010, 1:01 PM

Dear Beth:



Your email was passed along to me to answer. It was a few years ago that we had the stones you ask about here at Desert. The following puts our contact with the stones in perspective.



In June 2004, Henry Wallace of Desert Archaeology, Inc. (DAI) was contacted by Anne Montgomery, a writer for Arizona Highways with a request for a pro bono evaluation of the stone maps also known as the Peralta Stones. Anne arranged for the stones to be delivered in July to DAI by Ray Grant from the Mining Museum in Phoenix and asked that DAI analysts evaluate them and advise her about when and how the stone maps were made. Elizabeth Miska, Ph.D, Homer Thiel, M.A., and Jenny Adams, Ph.D. considered their geological background, their historic situation, their manufacture techniques, and evidence of post-manufacture deposition.



In summary, their conclusions were that the rocks themselves are not from the Superstition Mountains. The horse, heart, and witch depictions on the stones are not stylistically similar to the iconography of the 1800s, but are common in the 1900s. Similarly, the Spanish lettering and words on the stones are wrong for the mid-1800s and engravings and finishing of the stones were made by power tools. Furthermore, the stones are neither weathered from exposure nor damaged by burial as has been suggested by stories of their rediscovery. Based on these observations, the stone maps are not considered authentic as described in various stories of their origin in the mid-1800s and rediscovery in the mid-1900s. These observations were provided to Anne Montgomery who wrote an article for the January 2005 issue of Arizona Highways. None of the DAI analysts can add anything more to their conclusions at this time.



I hope it answers your questions and good luck with your research.



Second: (I am going to put all the rest together)

From: M. L. Brack <mlbrack@desert.com>
Subject: FW: Peralta Stones
To: "'Beth Decker'" <oroblanco@yahoo.com>
Date: Tuesday, July 13, 2010, 10:35 AM



-----Original Message-----
From: Henry Wallace [mailto:hwallace1@mindspring.com]
Sent: Monday, July 12, 2010 8:31 PM
To: mbrack@desert.com
Subject: Fwd: Peralta Stones

Mike, If you don't already have this, here is the summary of our
analyses of the Peralta Stones. This was sent to the director of the
museum where the were kept as well as to the reporter, Anne Montgomery.
--Henry

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Peralta Stones
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 16:23:32 -0700
From: Henry D. Wallace <hwallace1@mindspring.com>
To: raycyn@cox.net



We are finished with the analysis of the stones (see below for comments
from analysts that we sent to Anne). A photographer from Arizona Highways
may be calling you to get a photo with you and the stones. He was going to
get photos and then they are ready to be picked up.

Cheers,
Henry Wallace
Desert Archaeology


___________________
From Jenny Adams:

In my opinion, they are very nicely done and very interesting pieces.

Having said that - in my opinion - most of the manufacturing was done
with modern (meaning electrical) tools. The pair of dark stones were
mechanically sanded and then drilled or dremmeled to make the symbols. I
didn't see any metal filings to help with that interpretation, but in
many places, there is a start dimple where the drill first touched the
stone. The large cross on one side was chiseled rather than drilled. I
could go on in more detail about which symbols were made with different
tools and with different techniques but I doubt that level of detail is
necessary at this point.
There is no evidence that these stones were ever buried and then dug up
or that they sat out in the elements for any great length of time. The
stone material is very soft and there would be lots of random abrasions
across the sanded surfaces if they had been buried. If they sat out in
the open there would be lichen, weathering of the symbols, and
discoloration of the stone material - just look at old headstones in any
cemetery.


Here's Homer's:

HI Henry,

My comments on the Peralta Stones:

1). Witch imagery- a quick review of witch pictures on the internet reveals
that prior to 1900 witches were not depicted with the pointed hat that
appears on the stone next to one of the 1847 dates. The stone image
resembles strongly witch imagery from the 1910s to 1940s.

Examples- http://www.geocities.com/~sturtas1031/halloween5.html

http://www.magicgallery.com/images/KELLAR_WITCH.jpg

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 2254838871

&rd=1

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 2255094307

&rd=1

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 2255749424

&rd=1

(Believe the above sites no longer work.) Joe


2). The horse image is also not typical of horse imagery of the 1840s.
As an
example see:

http://www.csulb.edu/~aisstudy/nae/chap ... 2_3.04.jpg

3). The lettering is completely wrong for Spanish documents of the time
period.

Summary- it is a fake.

Homer Theil, Historical Archaeologist, Desert Archaeology, Inc.

_______________________

Here's Beth Miksa's full report:

Henry-

I looked at the Peralta Stones, and they are not made with rocks
consistent with the Florence area. The big stone with the horse on it
appears to be Coconino Sandstone or a related sandstone--this would be
available on the Mogollon Rim and in parts of northern Arizona. The
other two sandstones are very soft, very fine iron-rich micaceous
arkosic sandstones (possibly graywacke) such as those found in units on
the Mogollon Rim or in northern Arizona. The "heart" stone is an
iron-rich mudstone or shale that is consistent with units in northern
Arizona. I am not sure if it would be available on the Mogollon Rim.

I concur with Jenny Adams' finding that the stones do not show evidence
of being buried for any length of time. There is no weathering or even
minor surface alteration consistent with burial. The map surfaces of
the two conjoining "map" stones are especially fresh.

Beth

*******************************************

Elizabeth Miksa, Ph.D. Ph. 520/881-2244
Research Geologist Fax 520/881-0325
Desert Archaeology, Inc
3975 N. Tucson Blvd.
Tucson, AZ 85716


Sincerely – Jenny

This will give everyone the same information from DAI. It appears to me that, with all the credentials of the above folks, and, their specific statements, that they gave them a whole lot more than just a cursory exam.

I'm not sure why an untrained eye - looking for something in particular - would be a better indication than experts in their fields, but ----- unlike some here, I have no "horse in the race".


I do have one question - this is about stones being from the 1500's or 1600's - this analogy reminds me strongly of someone else's ideas on another forum, which, by most here, have been dismissed as....ridiculous - I'm not sure I understand why it might be an "interesting theory" here.

Beth
_____________________________________________

Good luck,

Joe Ribaudo

 

[hooch]

everyone one here(with a detector)will be invited to go because like i said earlier i run with a harbor freight detector special.. i have modded it though. i installed a flex-capacitor and a 7th fetzer valve on it.

If that ***** hits 88 miles an hour, leave me a message in a bottle under the old river crossing lumber on mill from 1955, letting me know what you found. PS find the douche that carved out those stone maps In the 50s and have him rescript the bottom portion stating "Joe Ribaudo is a Badass" just so everyone that looks for this fabled mine knows.

 

[markmar]

Joe

Interesting . But I have some questions :

These experts , have searched in all the Superstitions Mountains for sandstone and for iron-rich mudstone and didn't found ?

Knew to read or to decrypt a Jesuit map ?

Had a same kind of rocks which were buried 100 years in sand to make a comparison ?

First of all the witch and the horse are not paintings . Are what have see the author in the region . Rocks formation which look like a witch and a landscape which looks like a horse .

I post a real picture with iron-rich mudstone and an Omega shape of sandstone ( 3m width ) from GE , which both are close to the Peralta mines .

 

[cactusjumper]

Joe

Interesting . But I have some questions :

These experts , have searched in all the Superstitions Mountains for sandstone and for iron-rich mudstone and didn't found ?

Knew to read or to decrypt a Jesuit map ?

Had a same kind of rocks which were buried 100 years in sand to make a comparison ?

First of all the witch and the horse are not paintings . Are what have see the author in the region . Rocks formation which look like a witch and a landscape which looks like a horse .

I post a real picture with iron-rich mudstone and an Omega shape of sandstone ( 3m width ) from GE , which both are close to the Peralta mines .

View attachment 983038 View attachment 983039

Marius,

Forgot to mention, here are a few of Jenny Adams credits:

1993 Mechanisms of Wear on Ground Stone surfaces. Pacific Coast Archaeological Society Quarterly 29 (4):60-73

1995 The Ground Stone Assemblage: The development of a Prehistoric Grinding Technology in the Eastern Tonto Basin. In the Roosevelt Community Development Study: Vol. 1. Stone and Shell Artifacts, edited by M.D. Elson and J.J. Clark,
pp. 43-114. Anthropological Papers No. 14. Center for Desert Archaeology, Tucson.

1996 Manual for a Technological Approach to Ground Stone Analysis. Center for Desert Archaeology, Tucson.

1999 Refocusing the Role of Food-Grinding Tools as Correlates for Subsistence Strategies in the U.S. Southwest. American Antiquity 64:475-498.

2002 Ground Stone Analysis: A Technological Approach. University of Utah Press, Salt Lake City.

In addition to the above, Ms. Adams and Desert Archaeology played a very big part in the excavations of the Hohokam Ruins at Sky Harbor Airport. You can read about their involvement in: "Hohokam Farming on the Salt River Floodplain: Excavations at the Sky Harbor Airport North Runway". Anthropological Papers No. 9
Pueblo Grande Museum.

We are talking about some pretty heavy hitters in Southwestern Archaeology. The rest of the people at Desert Archaeology, Inc. are just as impressive.

No doubt you have impressive credentials as well.

Take care,

Joe

 

[cactusjumper]

Hey joe. (almost started singing Jimi Hendrix after writing that one )So is Jenni Adams still around? Or is there aNother so-called "expert "

Horse,

All of the credentials are available for what you call the "so-called" experts. Until someone comes here with a better resume, I will go with their conclusions.

The answer to your question is, yes.

http://www.desert.com/about/staff.html

Joe Ribaudo

 

[deducer]

In June 2004, Henry Wallace of Desert Archaeology, Inc. (DAI) was contacted by Anne Montgomery, a writer for Arizona Highways with a request for a pro bono evaluation of the stone maps also known as the Peralta Stones. Anne arranged for the stones to be delivered in July to DAI by Ray Grant from the Mining Museum in Phoenix and asked that DAI analysts evaluate them and advise her about when and how the stone maps were made. Elizabeth Miska, Ph.D, Homer Thiel, M.A., and Jenny Adams, Ph.D. considered their geological background, their historic situation, their manufacture techniques, and evidence of post-manufacture deposition.



In summary, their conclusions were that the rocks themselves are not from the Superstition Mountains. The horse, heart, and witch depictions on the stones are not stylistically similar to the iconography of the 1800s, but are common in the 1900s. Similarly, the Spanish lettering and words on the stones are wrong for the mid-1800s and engravings and finishing of the stones were made by power tools. Furthermore, the stones are neither weathered from exposure nor damaged by burial as has been suggested by stories of their rediscovery. Based on these observations, the stone maps are not considered authentic as described in various stories of their origin in the mid-1800s and rediscovery in the mid-1900s. These observations were provided to Anne Montgomery who wrote an article for the January 2005 issue of Arizona Highways. None of the DAI analysts can add anything more to their conclusions at this time.

First of all, I'm happy that the discussion has finally reverted back to something that's actually interesting to discuss. It was getting exasperating when a few posters took this thread away from what Frank was trying to share with us.

Some thoughts I have to this:

1) There is clear evidence that the trail stones currently in the museum are not the same trail stones that were stacked on a bumper and photographed in 1949. Does anyone have a photo of the stones that those academics studied? That way we could try to establish which stones they were examining.

2) I don't necessarily think that the fact that the stones haven't been established as being from the Supes precludes them from having to do anything with the Supes. My immediate questions are: have any of those "experts" been to the Supes? Have they walked in those mountains? Do they have any geological knowledge of the Supes?

3) And now that we're discussing geography- I note that those academics have their advance degrees in geology, but I didn't see any qualifications that they possessed that permits them to pass judgment on the language used on the stones..?

 

[cactusjumper]

Well, I have to agree. Everyone here is an expert on the Stone Maps......except for me. As I have always maintained, I don't know $#1t about rocks. I have seen this conversation many, many times before. I'm out of it.

Good luck,

Joe Ribaudo

 

[deducer]

well i guess the majority on this forum can be considered "experts" on the stones because i guaraantee we have looked at them alot more than anyone on that email list.. even combining their names together.

Have you actually looked at the stones, and not just pictures of them?

A number of us may have "looked" at the stones a lot more than they did, but we don't have their degrees in geology or the high-tech equipment they used in forming their conclusions.

 

[sgtfda]

Sarge

If you have found the cypher of the stone map trail , tell us : why the trail is carved on two stones instead one ?

I believe how the trail could been carved on a single stone . Who knows the answer , have found the EL TESORO DE LOS EGLESIA DE SANTA FE .

Markmar
What makes you think there are only 2 map stones in the set. There are other stones in the set not available to the public. They never were. So how can you come to any conclusions if you have only the public stones to work with?

 

[cactusjumper]

deducer,

Here's a little heads-up for you. td1 is leading you into Calalus and the Tucson artifacts. It's a Ben Davis thing.

Good luck,

Joe

 

[deducer]

i have checked out the maps on the museum.. remakes obviously cause the other ones looked differnet when they were first found. but those could have been remakes of remakes of remakes.. just like a reissue of a millenium falcon in the stores. wont be as good as the original but it will have the important featires..its a nice little museum.lots of cool stuff.. spanish armor, maps,etc etc..worth the 5 bucks.. bought a couple of the books and everything.

Looking at the stones through glass is really not any better than looking at pictures of them.

You're scoffing at any assessments at odds with how you view the stones without giving any solid reasons or even evidence as to why. All you have posted are pure opinions, and I have yet to see one intelligent sentence from you that doesn't contain a grammar error.

So with that, I'm going to put you on ignore.

 

[deducer]

deducer,

Here's a little heads-up for you. td1 is leading you into Calalus and the Tucson artifacts. It's a Ben Davis thing.

Good luck,

Joe

I kind of sensed that. I'm playing along for now.

 

[markmar]

sgtfda

The question was for the stone tablets TRAIL , which could be seen everywhere .

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Horsey, you posted --> i have modded it though. i installed a flex-capacitor and a 7th fetzer valve on it.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Can you clarify those terms in American terms? Do so in a pm. Gracias

I am not questioning your statement, but just attempting to clarify in my mind what you actuaally meant.

Don Jose de La Mancha.