The Milk Ranch

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Thank you Matthew for clearing up my question regarding the Whitlow Boy possibility traveling from the Milk Ranch to the Quarter Circle U Ranch, and then running across the body of one of the two soldiers. There must have been a trail in place from the two ranches as early as the 1880's. I'll have to get out my folder on the Two Soldiers and the Whitlow Family and refresh my memory to which reference I found that story. Wonder if that trail predates the year 1880? Cordially, Gregory E. Davis
 

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Matthew, Great job, I personally would like to read more history on the subjects you bring to the table , than people rehashing old feuds. np:cat:
 

cactusjumper said:
Matthew,

Quite true. I think most of us have run into some low-life Dutch Hunters who lie to your face trying to build up their own ego's and than turn on you like a wild dog.

Good luck,

Joe Ribaudo
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Mat, Joe
For us to move foreword, and hopefully find the information to solve the true story, you both need to put down your sticks and quit messing with this stinky crap.
It is what it is, now let us move foreword. That's just my four cents. Thank You Both for your years of research and hard work on Jacob and the LDM's true History!
FEMF
 

Gregory E. Davis said:
Thank you Matthew for clearing up my question regarding the Whitlow Boy possibility traveling from the Milk Ranch to the Quarter Circle U Ranch, and then running across the body of one of the two soldiers. There must have been a trail in place from the two ranches as early as the 1880's. I'll have to get out my folder on the Two Soldiers and the Whitlow Family and refresh my memory to which reference I found that story. Wonder if that trail predates the year 1880? Cordially, Gregory E. Davis
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Hello Gregory,

The trail at least as far as from the Cavaness (Board House) ranch over to the Milk Ranch definitely predates 1880. Matt Cavaness built both the "Board House" and Milk ranch on or before 1874. Mrs. Rowe was living at the Milk ranch with 4 of her children in 1874. I don't know if that road (trail) went all the way south to Whitlow's ranch in 1874 but I think possibly it did. It was about 1874 when Charles Whitlow gave up his ranch on the Salt River at Rowe's Station (Maryville) and started the ranch near the Superstitions. I still believe there is a connection between Charles Whitlow and the Rowe's. I believe Whitlow may have married one of William Rowe's daughters.

Matthew
 

cactusjumper said:
Matthew,

Quite true. I think most of us have run into some low-life Dutch Hunters who lie to your face trying to build up their own ego's and than turn on you like a wild dog.

Good luck,

Joe Ribaudo
Click to expand...





Let's me be real clear, this post quoted is considered attacks by mods. If it happens again in ANY thread timeouts will be issued...

Direct or indirect, it will not matter I am tired of this game....


Just my 2 cents.......No laughing...:mad:







American by birth, Patriot by choice.

I would rather die standing on my two feet defending our Constitution than live a lifetime on my knees......
 

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Hello Matthew and all: I pulled out my note book on the two soldiers and located the papers that told about the Whitlow Boy finding the body of one of the soldiers. It came from the Q.E.D. Files compiled by Butler. I will quote from the entry: "One day in late June of 1880, the Marlowe boy took a load of milk into Pinal. He traveled over the trail that was here near my camp. (Abe Reid's Camp) It went by here and down to Queen Creek and on into Pinal. It was the shortest route in those days. Anyhow, the boy made the delivery and was on the trail back to the ranch. He had the pack animals strung out on the trail ahead of him and was pushing them along as it was getting along in the afternoon. About a half-mile from the ranch, (Quarter Circle U Ranch), out there in the valley, (Bark Valley, eastern edge), the animals began to quit the trail, shying away. He found what was spooking them. It was a dead man, lying in the trail. He had been shot in the head. He was clad in his underwear and his hat was laying a short distance away. The boy rounded up the animals and lit out for the ranch. He announced his discovery and his father ordered him to go back and cover the body with a tarp and stones. Marlow himself sent for the law at Florence. The next day a couple of annual prospectors named Forrest and _? came down the trail toward the "Milk Ranch" and found the body covered by the tarp. The Sheriff and some men arrived shortly. An inquest was held and the result was: The dead man was one of the two ex-soldiers who had shown up at the Silver King Mine looking for a jo9b. They had some gold with they claimed they had found at an old mine in the mountains. The dead soldier was wearing underwear that had the mark of the Silver King Commissary on the inside of the collar. All other clothing except his had was missing. It was said he had died of gunshot wounds (in the head and back) that were inflicted by persons or persons unknown. Motive: Possible robbery." There are some conflicting stories as to who found the body, Most say it was the father Marlow but one can see how this got confused for Marlow Sr. sent for the sheriff and also went to the body site after his son told him about it and also he went with the inquest party. Interesting how this story ties in with the Milk Ranch and the Quarter Circle Ranch. Also how those trails were in place in the 1880's and most likely before that time. Cordially, Gregory E. Davis
 

Hello Gregory,

Thanks for finding that. What a great piece of history that ties in with the Lost Dutchman Legend. I remember reading that account but it has been so long I didn't remember where I had seen it.
The only other part I remember was another account where the two soldiers names were never known or remembered by Mason and Bowen at the Silver King. Much speculation has been made as to what the soldiers names were but to date they have never been confirmed. They were NOT Jacobs and Ludi as some have claimed !

It should be noted Marlow was George Marlow, he and Alfred Charleboise bought the Cavaness ranch after Matt Cavaness and his wife (Alice Rowe) were divorced (about 1875). Marlow and Charleboise actually bought the ranch from the Goldman Brothers in Phoenix. It's an interesting story how the Goldman Mercantile Company got the ranch. Matt Cavaness took the cattle and abandoned the ranch to his wife / ex-wife Alice. Alice was a big spender and had run up substantial bills in Phoenix at Goldman Brothers store. Also on that bill were some ranch expenses that Goldman had credited the Cavaness. To pay off the debt Alice signed over the ranch to the Goldman's who later sold it to Marlow and Charleboise.

Those old trails and wagon roads were in place long before most today realize they were. I often wish I could find an old 1875 map of that section of the Superstitions and Pinal's to see just was in place back then.
Good work finding that article Greg !

Matthew
 

The topic is the "Milk Ranch" The story of the Whitlow boy finding the two soldiers is part of the Milk Ranch History. He was going to and from the Milk Ranch to the Quarter Circle U Ranch delivering milk when he ran into the dead body. The trail between the Milk Ranch and the Quarter Circle UK Ranch is also connected to the history of the Milk Ranch. So are the activities of the Whitlow Family part of the Milk Ranch History. No attempt here to derail the thread. Just adding some interesting history associated with the Milk Ranch. Gregory E. Davis
 

Please keep replies on topic and by our rules.






American by birth, Patriot by choice.

I would rather die standing on my two feet defending our Constitution than live a lifetime on my knees......
 

Charles Whitlow.jpg

Photo of Charles Whitlow and his wife.
 

Good morning Matthew: At the milk ranch did they raise cattle for milk or Goats or both? Is there a description of what the Milk Ranch looked like when it was operating? Cordially, Gregory E. Davis
 

Gregory E. Davis said:
Good morning Matthew: At the milk ranch did they raise cattle for milk or Goats or both? Is there a description of what the Milk Ranch looked like when it was operating? Cordially, Gregory E. Davis
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Hello Gregory,

As far as I know the Milk ranch was only a cattle operation and a few horses. I did not know of goats being raised there but it is a possibility. Goats and sheep were big items when the cattle markets plummeted.
I don't have any photos of the Milk Ranch, there may be one somewhere but I've never found it. I don't think the Milk ranch house was in operation very long, 5-10 years at the most. Once Mrs. Caveness mother Mrs. Rowe and her children moved away about 1875-1876 I don't think Marlow and Charleboise used it for anything but a storage and line shack. It had served it's original purpose and was no longer essential to the ranch.

Matthew
 

Hello Matthew: Do you think that there are any land records, tax records and census records that make reference to the "Milk Ranch" or the people/families that owned and operated it on file at a county recorder's office and if so what county would be holding those records. I would assume that if there are such records that those early records have now been deposited with the Arizona State Archives? Cordially, Gregory E. Davis
 

Gregory E. Davis said:
Hello Matthew: Do you think that there are any land records, tax records and census records that make reference to the "Milk Ranch" or the people/families that owned and operated it on file at a county recorder's office and if so what county would be holding those records. I would assume that if there are such records that those early records have now been deposited with the Arizona State Archives? Cordially, Gregory E. Davis
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Hello Gregory,

That is a possibility but I have never found any public records on the Milk ranch exclusively by itself. Just because I haven't found any however does not mean there might not be any, things from the early days ( 1868 - 1878 ) are sometimes difficult to access or even find due to the way things were filed ( or stuffed into folders and books full of other records as is the case ).

The way I see it, and this is just my personal opinion, is that the Milk ranch was never a stand alone ranch by itself, it was an extension of the Cavaness ranch (Board House Ranch ). I'm sure any taxes on the Milk ranch were under the umbrella of Matt Cavaness taxes on his Cavaness ranch. The Milk ranch cattle as I understand it had the same brand as the Cavaness cattle, the "River" brand, a meandering line on the right side of the cow. This alone leads me to the conclusion that the Milk Ranch and Cavaness ranch were considered by everyone to be one and the same even though they were a couple miles distant. Sort of like a line shack for the Cavaness ranch.

Matthew
 

after reading matt cavaness memoirs i feel like he did not establish the ranch in the superstitions, the one we now call the qcu, until around the 1875 to 1878 time frame. his memoirs give lots of dates and events that can be traced to newspaper accounts and documented history. it also looks like its pretty much chronological.

ive read accounts by jack san felice, chuck backus and others that source the start of the ranch to be in the 1875-1877 timeframe as well, at least after the silver king mine was discovered the second time and work began on it.

just checking to see if anyone else has looked into this and if im on the right track as far as dates
 

Does anyone know who has the original hand-written manuscript for the Cavaness Manuscript? Has it ever been submitted to a qualified authentication process? I have a copy of the manuscript, but don't have much confidence in its authenticity.

Does anyone know if Matt placed his second wife at the Milk Ranch, along with two children?

Joe Ribaudo
 

Matt Cavaness registered his River brand in Maricopa county for his Superstition mountains ranch in 1873 so the ranch was at least established by that time.
Don't know about the Matt Cavaness memoirs and if they have been qualified or not, maybe Matthew knows ?
Goldmine
 

Good morning Goldmine: Referencing your inquiry about the Cavaness Manuscript, I quote: "Memoirs of Matt Cavaness, Typed as written, from a longhand manuscript by Matt Cavaness, Arizona Pioneer", Joseph Miller 1950. (Joseph Miller was the librarian at the archives in the 1950's. He was also one of the persons who compiled the material for the "Hayden Reports"). Property of the Department of Library and Archives, Arizona, Number 58531. It is located at the Arizona State Archives Building on 19th. Avenue. The original is also on microfilm, so they may not let you make a copy directly from the original hand written document but only from the microfilm copy. Cordially, Gregory E. Davis
 

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