The Lost Treasure of Emperor Maximilian

[KANACKI]

Hello Bill

As with the rest of the trio, Harkluck and Crow, we always maintain we are not after fame decoding conspiracy theories. or flogging books videos etc... But finding the truth behind these stories for better or for worse.

And perhaps develop a profitable project if all the key elements are in place.

cheers Kanacki

 

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[wingmaster]

There's no way to know if somebody has found the treasure I think, because they might not have told if they did. HH

 

[BillA]

artifacts will out, given time

 

[KANACKI]

There is also a story in the New York Times in 1911.

The story tells of the arrest of two Mexicans, Valino Preza and Alejandro Marcecci. Who were arrested by special treasury agent William Theobald.

The had first approached a well known jeweler in New York claiming that they had Maximilian's Jewels for sale. When he refused to have any thing to do with it they as if he appraise the value of the items.

He agreed and told them to come back later and he called the police and they were arrested. General George Mindel a government expert on gems is making a report for Collector Bidwell.

If the stones were part Maximilian's treasure then it is supposed it will create problems with Mexico. And Mexico may lay claim to the Gems.





Papers found on Preza have been translated but officials have refused to make public thier contents.

The Mexicans insisted that they were jewels were from Maximilian's crown. However expert were at a disagreement of the exact origin of the gems.


As you can see there are many stories relating to the treasures associated with Maximilian.

Wagons loads of gold and gems fleeing across Mexico to the United States to Safety? Or on a ship that sailed from Mexico but was rammed and suck in collision off the coast of Virginia? looted gems from the time of his execution?

Which ones are true?

Kanacki

 

[BillA]

from a post above
"The story on how it got to United States was and interesting one. A story of greed racism and outright theft."

its hard work spreading democracy


edit2: so what happened to the Mexicans' rocks ?
the ring looks antique

 

[KANACKI]

Hello Bill I have posted picture of the gems again.

In short well known jeweler in New York bought the gems in a fire sale after they was sized as contraband by customs because they was not declared by the Mexicans Valino Preza and Alejandro Marcecci when they crossed over into the United States through Laredo.

The gems was looted from the body of Maximilian after he was executed by firing squad. The story goes the two Mexican men was acting on behalf of a women descendant of one of the men of the firing Squad. By 1911 the family was desperate for money and tried to sell the gems in the USA.

Kanacki

 

[KANACKI]

It seems after Maximillions execution there was free for all for souvenirs.

Even his clothes.



He was embalmed in coffin and put on display. This was political decision by the new republican government to show supporters of Maximilian was dead. Hence the coffin picture below.



You could say it was 1867 spin... and proper gander and a warning message to European powers having designs on Mexico.

.

Kanacki

 

[BillA]

Hello Bill I have posted picture of the gems again.

In short well known jeweler in New York bought the gems in a fire sale after they was sized as contraband by customs because they was not declared by the Mexicans Valino Preza and Alejandro Marcecci when they crossed over into the United States through Laredo.

The gems was looted from the body of Maximilian after he was executed by firing squad. The story goes the two Mexican men was acting on behalf of a women descendant of one of the men of the firing Squad. By 1911 the family was desperate for money and tried to sell the gems in the USA.

Kanacki

yet another setup facilitated by 'flexible' law and a corrupt state, but which state is any different ?

 

[KANACKI]

Hello Bill

Things become a little clearer. This is where Maximilian died. With the following discovery in 1892. Newspaper story Australian Star (Sydney, NSW : 1887 - 1909), Saturday 17 September 1892, page 5



600 thousand English pound was approximately 2 million USD 1893 exchange values at the time. Convent of Capuchinas, where Maximilian was imprisoned in Queretaro. This treasure was found in the very spot where Maximilian was captured and killed. I suspect Maximilian was trying to recover that treasure during an attempt to flee the country. But for him it was all too late. And of course cost him his life.



Once again the government of the day has the biggest stick...

Kanacki

 

[BillA]

Hi Kanacki

the thought occurs to me . . . .
are these old guys laying low on islands, in the jungle, etc. despots trying to flee their sheep ?
(we should be so lucky, the islands and jungle would be wildly overpopulated - let them remain in the cities)

 

[KANACKI]

Hello Bill

There are much more benefits being stateless than a citizen of any country. While publicly such people are despised by governments. They see they have their uses when there is a need to be doing some thing without having been seeing doing some thing. Thus they are needed when you yourself your country cannot be seen to be doing so. So thus they are banished to off to out of the way corners of world. Retired like a tiger in their cages, Yet although they are old toothless tigers their claws still have a long reach and their ever mindful of that.

So in effect a win win agreement.

Kanacki

 

[BillA]

Hi Kanacki,

my question was rhetorical
and there are those who do their best to get low and stay low
being stateless is akin to being an atheist -> free
as you say, no state wants to see free people outside the fence (a safety barrier for THEIR own protection)

 

[KANACKI]

While for me the fate of Maximillians money and gems are explained.

How there are still many mysteries around him. In Maximillian's possessions and papers he had an alleged treasure map. Not a treasure map to his own personal fortune but the fate of the fortune of the government he and the French usurped in 1864.



Kanacki

 

[BillA]

Hi Kanacki,

You are referring to the treasury of the previous Mexican government ?
How much and in what form ?
Where was it located and when moved ?

edit: this would be the first government of Benito Juarez, that got loans from France ?
why were the Mexicans getting loans - to enrich themselves more rapidly ?

edit2: I'm guessing that map is of an area in Mexico . . . .
eeeeehhh (like a horse)

edit3: sounds like the country was broke after all those years of civil war ? ?

 

[KANACKI]

Hello Bill yes you are correct the treasury was not exactly bountiful but not totally bankrupt either.

Although republican forces under Ignacio Zaragoza won an initial victory over the monarchists on 5 May 1862, the Battle of Puebla, celebrated annually as Cinco de Mayo, forcing the French to retreat to the coast for a year, the French advanced again in 1863, and captured Mexico City. Juárez and his elected government fled the capital and became a government in exile, with little power or territorial control. Juárez headed north, first to San Luis Potosí, then to the arid northern city of El Paso del Norte, present day Ciudad Juárez, Chihuahua, and finally to the capital of the state, Chihuahua City, where he set up his cabinet and government-in-exile

On July 12 of 1859, Juárez decreed the first regulations of the reform: “The Law of Nationalization of the Ecclesiastical Wealth.” This prohibited the Catholic Church from having properties in Mexico. Because of Juárez's Law of Nationalization, the Catholic Church and the regular army supported The Conservatives.

Benito Juarez turned to separating church from state in his reforms. He started sizing church property and confiscated over a million dollars at the time. Churches throughout mexico must of went into a panic and sent their wealth out of mexico to avoid confiscation by Benito Juarez.In his pursuit of church wealth he obtained the map that was in his treasury. When the Mexican treasury with what little was there was over run by the French. The map was one of documents passed on to Maximillan.

Maximilian was rather sympathetic to the churches plight in 1864? However Maximillan never had full control of mexico only the central part. To the south and north was forces loyal to Benito Juarez. So he never had the chance to recover any of this alleged treasure. As history and winds of fate brought about his own execution.

The map refers to several locations not in Mexico but Guatemala.

Today we do not know it is still there or looted in chaos of Guatemala own strife and civil wars. The map is more a curio than anything.

A good conversation piece.



Kanacki

 

[Samanthy]

some difficult parts: the 6 men killed all the others (~ok), and then buried 45 small barrels and burnt the wagons on top
even horseshoe barrels, how long for 6 men to bury ? - did the transporting group have some shovels and picks ?
too much for too few methinks

They could have found a cave, then closed it up. Or they dumped it into a well then filled it in leaving no surface trace.
Just thoughts. If there is a will, there is a way!

 

[BillA]

Castle Gap

from Ambrose Bierce:
logic; if one man can dig a posthole in 60 seconds, 60 men can dig a posthole in one second

your hope does not bury 45 barrels in soil harder than the postholes in hell

 

[KANACKI]

I have no doubt Castle Gap was a choke point for travelers, explorers, fleeing confederates and Mexican bandits and outlaws have passed through the area. Well worth a metal detect in its own right. But in regards to the Maximilian story I do not believe any Prussian or Austrian officer would of made it through northern mexico be cause it was in control of republican forces. To me that is just a story with wishful thinking.

As for Maximilian's treasure between what was hidden in convent where he was captured and executed, what was looted off his person. Some of his treasure made it back Europe with Carlota. Contrary to contemporary chroniclers saying she was left in poverty it was not quite true. Many of coronation regalia ended back in Europe as you can see for yourself below.



Carlota's crown was borrowed from Bavarian crown jewels below.



Carlota died 19 January 1927 (aged 86) Meise, Belgium She lived in a Castle there until her death. Indeed she did love her late husband and never recovered from his execution and became a recluse in later years of her life. Yet she did no die in poverty as many suggested. She had servants and a castle estate is not poverty my friends. Perhaps in the eyes of an ex emperors wife? But in reality well off. Here is a picture of her in her later years.



So my friends Some times some treasure legends are just legends and reality for some who want to just dream and ignore the facts.

Kanacki

 

[KANACKI]

There is also a story in the New York Times in 1911.

The story tells of the arrest of two Mexicans, Valino Preza and Alejandro Marcecci. Who were arrested by special treasury agent William Theobald.

The had first approached a well known jeweler in New York claiming that they had Maximilian's Jewels for sale. When he refused to have any thing to do with it they as if he appraise the value of the items.

He agreed and told them to come back later and he called the police and they were arrested. General George Mindel a government expert on gems is making a report for Collector Bidwell.

If the stones were part Maximilian's treasure then it is supposed it will create problems with Mexico. And Mexico may lay claim to the Gems.

View attachment 1770003

View attachment 1770004

Papers found on Preza have been translated but officials have refused to make public thier contents.

The Mexicans insisted that they were jewels were from Maximilian's crown. However expert were at a disagreement of the exact origin of the gems.


As you can see there are many stories relating to the treasures associated with Maximilian.

Wagons loads of gold and gems fleeing across Mexico to the United States to Safety? Or on a ship that sailed from Mexico but was rammed and suck in collision off the coast of Virginia? looted gems from the time of his execution?

Which ones are true?

Kanacki

I should elaborate more on special treasury agent William Theobald? You can excerpt about him below.



He used jewelers to catch thieves and gem smugglers sneaking to the country avoids paying duty on gems entering the country.

Kanacki

 

[BillA]

I should elaborate more on special treasury agent William Theobald? . . . .

He used jewelers to catch thieves and gem smugglers sneaking to the country avoids paying duty on gems entering the country.

Kanacki

yes, I once had a girlfriend whose brother was a special agent (secret service) who worked in No Calif entrapping gold sellers and buyers
they are below whale **** which is at the bottom of the ocean

aarrghhhh