The Lost Dutchman Lies

[somehiker]

Secretcanyon and Somehiker: How come you guys came in and high-jacked my thread? Read the title of the thread please!

lg:
Sorry ! Didn't mean to highjack your topic, but the title sounded familiar.
http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/lost-dutchman-s-mine/46678-read-lost-dutchman-lies-free.html

 

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[pippinwhitepaws]

sorry dude.
posts removed.

 

[markmar]

lgadbois

I don't insist , but when Ruth died , he tried to solve the Perfil map which made Manuel Gonzales Peralta . Ruth had owned three maps for his search , and maybe the one of these was the Gonzalaz map . In my previous post , I have explain you how to solve the Perfil map .
Now about the DeGrazia map . For sure he painted a scene of the dr. Thorne's jurney from the return of the Apache mine .
Why the return ? Because the Indian looks back to the mine , and this means too , how the map must be reversed .
To the mine ? Yes , Ted DeGrazia knew about the location of the Apache mine .
How I know ? In his sketch ( map) , he marked the mine ( golden legde ) on the chin of the small Indian head ( on the mountain side ) , behind of the the horse head shape . The horse head shape is an Apache clue to find their mine . I posted the horse head shape few times , but to add more " salt " in the description , I post it again .

 

[lgadbois]

Here is a sketch by Degrazia:

View attachment 821891
Is it a map to his paintings?

You have a good eye, Marius. In looking at the sketch I see many interesting features:
The Indian is looking back
At the rear of the Indian's horse is a tail or water falls
To the rear of the horse is a terrain outline that looks a little like on the Perfil map
the cowboy is wearing a blindfold (Dr Walker)
The horse's face has a mine for an eye
They are riding South (what canyon?)
The drawing to the right of the cowboy does look like a hog
The Indian face (North of the hog) looks like the rock that sticks out from the right side of the Perfil map
The area just to the left of the horse nose is part of a heart
There are numbers hidden in the sketch

 

[pippinwhitepaws]

oh...so it is just me...
everyone else can detract the thread from advertising a book for sale...
ok...got it.

 

[cactusjumper]

Dan is a member of TreasureNet. He posts under the name of "Seventy-two". He has taken a lot of criticism for the conclusions he draws in the book.

My thoughts:

We don't really know where Jacob Waltz got his gold. It could have been from a mine that he worked. It could have been ore that was cached somewhere or gold Jacob found from the massacre in the Superstitions.

There must be over 100 mines in the Superstitions. Have any of them produced a lot of gold? We don't know. Did the mine that Kenworthy worked on Bluff Springs Mountain really produce gold? Where is the proof? Where are the ore samples from his mine? Was his mining operation a screen for selling gold from another source? Where did he sell the ore? Did he smelt the ore himself?

Dan has an interesting narrative that describes how the Don's organization promoted tourism through the idea of a Lost Dutchman Mine. He also has some ideas of how Ted Degrazia may have created the "Peralta Stone Maps" as well as many of the other LDM maps. How many of the maps are clues to the location of where Degrazia stored 18 of his paintings?

Dan's conclusions may not be accurate, be he gives the LDM hunters plenty to think about. The site he located East of Labarge Box is apparently a worked out quartz mine. I doubt that it is the mine where JW got his gold. Other maps point to other mines, but none has proven to be the richest gold mine in the world. And now with no mining allowed in the Superstition Mountains, I guess the search for the LDM is just a fantasy driven adventure for those that enjoy hiking in this rugged and dangerous country.

Igadbois,

DeGrazia...........Really! That sounds vaguely familiar.

Good luck,

Joe Ribaudo

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

DUH ?

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[markmar]

You have a good eye, Marius. In looking at the sketch I see many interesting features:
The Indian is looking back
At the rear of the Indian's horse is a tail or water falls
To the rear of the horse is a terrain outline that looks a little like on the Perfil map
the cowboy is wearing a blindfold (Dr Walker)
The horse's face has a mine for an eye
They are riding South (what canyon?)
The drawing to the right of the cowboy does look like a hog
The Indian face (North of the hog) looks like the rock that sticks out from the right side of the Perfil map
The area just to the left of the horse nose is part of a heart
There are numbers hidden in the sketch

You are correct , if we exclusing some mistakes .
From the apache mine leads blindfolded Dr. Thorne and not Dr. Walker . Dr. Walker was in Wieser story .
The hog is the horse head shape . Look at the similarities which have : the rectangular rock infront on the neck , the same nose - mouth shape and the triangular shapes behind the head . Only the ears are different , but this doesn't matter .

The sketch is in the same region with the Perfil map , and they are riding north in La Barge Canyon .

Marius

 

[pippinwhitepaws]

the biggest lie is people from somewhere else, who have never been in those mountains...have the key to the recovery of a mine lost to history, but large in mythology.

 

[markmar]

Yes , and my " balls " are moving left and right .

 

[lgadbois]

the biggest lie is people from somewhere else, who have never been in those mountains...have the key to the recovery of a mine lost to history, but large in mythology.

You make a good point Secretcanyon, but I do think that Dan Adams has a lot of time hiking in the Superstitions. It sounds like you haven't read the book yet! It's free at the link I provided.

But maybe you are not accusing Adams of being a liar. Maybe you think I am lying. About what? You have twice accused me of advertising a book for sale. I didn't know about this book until about two weeks ago. I read it and found it very interesting and provocative. I said that in the opening of this thread. Maybe we got off to a bad start because you highjacked this thread with comments that didn't pertain to the topic. The link I provided does not offer this book for sale.

If you are not interested in discussing Danny Adam's book, no one is forcing you to participate in this thread!

 

[lgadbois]

You are correct , if we exclusing some mistakes .
From the apache mine leads blindfolded Dr. Thorne and not Dr. Walker . Dr. Walker was in Wieser story .
The hog is the horse head shape . Look at the similarities which have : the rectangular rock infront on the neck , the same nose - mouth shape and the triangular shapes behind the head . Only the ears are different , but this doesn't matter .

The sketch is in the same region with the Perfil map , and they are riding north in La Barge Canyon .

Marius

Whoops! (brain vacation) Yes, it was Dr Thorne that was taken to a cache of gold by an Indian. Thank you
The horse shape is very complicated. Does the rectangular rock in front of the neck suggest a place where the paintings might be found?

Marius, do you think that the head above the horse is Geronimo Head?

So, maybe the Degrazia paintings are stored somewhere in LaBarge Canyon? Dan Adams had thought that the mine he found, which is just East of LaBarge Box, was near the hiding place of the paintings. He apparently MDed the corral at least twice because of the 1847 spoon he found.

 

[roadrunner]

And dint adams say he found the water color or paints in or around the coral?
I put in Geronimos head in GE and it is the right side of laBarge canyon.
If its right,have to check my topos.
And Labarge canyon goes straight to the end of Tortilla flats.
To route 88.
There is a trail leading right to the cliff on the right side of LaBarge.

 

[coazon de oro]

Howdy Igadbois,

With Ted's passion for painting mostly Native Indian art, might his paintings be in the "Indian Paint Mine"?

Homar

 

[Somero]

Howdy Igadbois,

With Ted's passion for painting mostly Native Indian art, might his paintings be in the "Indian Paint Mine"?

Homar

Brilliant, the one clue sitting right in front of everyone So now do we start the "It's a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World" looking for the big W

I can honestly see this as being the spot.

 

[lgadbois]

You are correct , if we exclusing some mistakes .
From the apache mine leads blindfolded Dr. Thorne and not Dr. Walker . Dr. Walker was in Wieser story .
The hog is the horse head shape . Look at the similarities which have : the rectangular rock infront on the neck , the same nose - mouth shape and the triangular shapes behind the head . Only the ears are different , but this doesn't matter .

The sketch is in the same region with the Perfil map , and they are riding north in La Barge Canyon .

Marius

Marius,

I forgot to mention, if the Indian face on the right side of the Degrazia sketch is Geronimo Head, and it is on the right side of LaBarge Canyon, and they are riding away from Geronimo Head, then: They are riding South.

 

[markmar]

Marius,

I forgot to mention, if the Indian face on the right side of the Degrazia sketch is Geronimo Head, and it is on the right side of LaBarge Canyon, and they are riding away from Geronimo Head, then: They are riding South.

You forgot how the map ( sketch ) must be reversed .

The horse shape is very complicated. Does the rectangular rock in front of the neck suggest a place where the paintings might be found?

Marius, do you think that the head above the horse is Geronimo Head?

The rectangular rock on the horse head neck is only to compare the pictures .
The Indian face on the mountaiside is not Geronimo Head . This means how the mine belongs to Apache . The paintings should be in this region . In the sketch they are riding North in La Barge Canyon , from the north end of Bluff Spring Mountain .

 

[sgtfda]

The Rodgers 1847 spoon was not made in 1847. All Rodgers non silver was marked 1847. It a style #. I do believe Rodgers did not make items from silver. You can find Rodgers 1847 pieces at just about any flea market

 

[pippinwhitepaws]

hey sarge...were you at the memorial in Prescott yesterday?


1847 is a pattern number when it is on a rogers spoon.

 

[lgadbois]

There is a picture of spoon on page 27 of the book, "The Lost Dutchman Lies." I think Degrazia deliberately planted the old spoon in the corral.