Muddyhandz
Bronze Member
- Jul 1, 2012
- 1,226
- 1,955
- Detector(s) used
- Fisher's 1266X, 1270X & 1280X
- Primary Interest:
- All Treasure Hunting
I’m sure we’ve all seen Tom in Ca great posts on not asking for permission for places we have a right to be at like city parks. The point made….
it is better not to ask for places we can already detect or some bureaucrat will say no and now nobody can hunt there.
I won’t go into detail about this as Tom has many lengthy posts covering this subject. I do agree with this to a point.
The big question is how far can we go with this mentality?
A recent argument has occurred on the issue of bank foreclosures and those in favour of searching these properties without obtaining permission are using Tom’s form of reasoning.
So we now take the concept of public land being open to all and apply that to private land (Bank property is not public) and justify trespassing because it’s bank land and nobody likes banks.
Surely they will say no anyway.
The foreclosures were a sad thing to see in America and since banks are powerful and heartless, then it’s o.k. to search the properties they own without permission.
I’m sure many have justified short changing some big box store because they’re so big and greedy but in reality, the money may come out of the pocket of some poor employee working at minimum wage.
Anyway, so now that it seems acceptable to hunt these foreclosures, what about the other boarded up homes?
Are all the boarded up homes bank property or do some of these belong to private individuals?
I remember the warning ticket I got as a teenager when my friend and I went out into the country and saw an “abandoned” old house. We parked on the side of the road and started detecting. Later that evening, the R.C.M.P. contacted my friend (It was his car) and said his plate number was called in for trespassing and luckily the landowner didn’t press charges so we got a warning.
What do you know…. The boarded up property was not abandoned and was owned by someone. DOH! Lesson learned.
I revealed this past story to highlight my question…..Do you know for sure it’s a bank foreclosure? Surely it’s not abandoned like my naive teenage thinking.
So, assuming this bank foreclosure property is an acceptable place to hunt (since many on this forum agree that it is) what now, after countless neighbors and passerby’s phone in to complain about people wandering on these properties, digging holes? Surely, this will draw some sort of attention.
Of course it gets worse if some of these properties are in fact owned by private individuals.
Let’s continue with the public property scenario. I’m sure people here are familiar with the grassy strip (boulevard) in front of homes on a city block and how the issue has been another heated topic.
I was quite rebellious in my younger years and after learning that these curb strips were in fact city property, I would hunt block after block and stand my ground when an angry homeowner would come out and yell at me for being on their property. Many people are emotionally attached to this strip of land since they cut and rake the grass.
Many think they own it. After a typical yelling match, I would simply say “Call the cops” and wait for them to arrive. After all, its city property and I’m in the right.
I don’t hunt these areas anymore because I don’t feel it’s worth the hassle.
Now, I think about all the police I tied up from catching real criminals and all the angry people calling the city. Even though I was technically right, I apologize for all the bad publicity I brought to this hobby.
Yes, it still resulted in people calling in and complaining about a guy with a detector.
There’s countless city owned outdoor swimming pools here where I live. The pool and grassy areas around the pool are typically fenced off to keep out skateboarders and others from hanging out in a potentially dangerous empty concrete pit. There maybe equipment stored in this area also.
But this is public property and therefore falls under the category of places you don’t need to ask permission to hunt. On the off season, there maybe a chance that a worker will have the gate open and you could gain entry. However, the worker may tell you one of three things……
1. Call the city and ask their boss as they don’t have the authority to give permission (which may end in a big fat NO.)
2. Yes, you have 1 hour while I’m here working.
3. NO!
Based on this, it seems easier to just hop the fence when no one is around and since its public property, no need to ask anyone who will most likely say no or put them in a position where now no one can hunt this property. Right?
So, what of all the home owners around the pool looking out their window? What of all the people walking by that happen to see you hopping the fence? You can guarantee someone will call in or at least harbour bitter feelings towards the guy with a detector.
The city also owns several public golf courses here in my area. These places are also fenced off and surely no one would want hunt there when golfers are playing, so wait until the off season.
Why would you want to hunt there?
Well, it’s still old property as the golf course opened a hundred years ago and before that, had some colonial homes in the area.
Again, why ask since its public property? The window of opportunity is narrow as golfers are diehards like us, braving the elements and it may be closed for only a short period of time. Golfers are also passionate about their game and greens and may possibly wrap their golf club around your neck if they see you digging there.
The groundskeepers will not be happy also so, it’s just easier to just hop the fence when no one is around, risking being seen and all that jazz. But it is public property after all.
Let’s list some more public places. We have hospitals, police stations, parliament grounds, sports complexes, and schools.
O.K. hospitals can be dicey. In Canada, they are public but the administrators will say no because it may disturb the patients who sit outside.
Still, public land so, let’s gives it a whirl until the security guards kick us out. As for the suffering patients watching you capitalize from change and jewelry that was lost by previous patients….
Hey it’s city property!
Next, we have police stations which are public property. If you’re brave enough to try this without asking for permission…….Wow!
The parliament buildings and grounds are technically owned by the taxpayers but any government official working inside will tell every security guard to boot out anyone detecting there.
Sorry, you are allowed to walk the grounds holding a detector but not permitted to penetrate the ground in any way.
Again, in my younger years and after being kicked out a dozen times by security, I deemed this place as being too much of a hassle.
I’ve tried every argument in the book with no avail.
Many sports complexes and schools are public places but some are also private.
The public ones, I have always just walked in and detected but things are changing more and more these days. Think of all the horror stories flashing on the news and parents are more fearful than ever. A lot of people would rather you not hunt there.
Even coaches, teachers, groundskeepers because parents are calling in, afraid of the “pervert” roaming the grounds. Add a bunch of newbie’s inspired by reality shows digging big holes and……
I could spend all day talking about different forms of public land and the problems and grey areas they have. My examples may differ than those in another country but I’m sure there are more public places than just parks all over the map. This post will get even bigger if I go into details applicable to everyone, so I better try and wrap things up.
What I see as the biggest threat to our hobby is this very forum. Yes, I’m talking about T-net.
Now everyone is free to make their own judgments, even if that means rationalizing, justifying, and being right until you’re blue in the face.
The possible consequences will only affect your locality and you can deal with your fellow treasure hunters and authorities locally on your own.
But when you share your opinions and practices on the world’s largest treasure hunting forum, you are affecting all of us globally.
That’s right, globally.
Anyone in the world can view this forum and your comments are recorded almost indefinitely.
Some are trying to bridge the gap between us and the archaeological community and people on this forum are giving them the very dirt they seek on a daily basis.
I have already witnessed academics quoting members comments on their blogs about the lawlessness of us treasure hunters from this very forum. Thanks for giving them more fuel. Is your opinion so precious that you have to jeopardize our entire hobby and spew it all over for everyone to see? Selfishness prevails.
What you do off-line is your business but do you have any regard toward the repercussions your comments may cause here at T-net?
There are members who regularly clean up your mess here by posting good practices (you know, the “Do-gooders”) but things are getting worse each day and these members are overwhelmed.
Too many selfish comments are adding up big time.
Take a good moment to think about all the impressionable minds viewing your comments. What about those who are in a position power that get wind of this growing sentiment?
Sure, they may not be looking but some lackey could point it out to them. Many people deciding the fate of our hobby may look to this forum for answers.
Can you see the global picture here?
How do you want those on-lookers to see us collectively?
It’s bad enough there are people phoning in to complain about trespassing and disregard for public land in every city.
It seems to be no coincidence that those making poor choices in what they say here support the metal detecting reality shows (Maybe not all of them.)
Those shows are another thorn in our side but that issue has been discussed quite a bit here already. If one was to look at the many threads on these shows and the recent bank foreclosure thread, they will see a division among detectorists.
Yes, all of humanity is divided but so are treasure hunters and yet we share the same passion.
Can we at least try and work together for the better of our hobby? Or is everyone in it for themselves.
In closing, I am not targeting Tom of Ca. He has made many valid points over the years.
However, his posts are wide open for interpretation. His overall message can be taken much further than he intended as to when we should ask for permission.
I made an attempt here to point out how far it can go with one’s rationalization. I also wanted to show the possible negative consequences.
I’m sure I’ve offended people with this post but my overall concern expressed here, outweighs the desire to make friends or to achieve popularity.
I am speaking from personal experience as I too, made some harmful decisions during my early years.
We all know the power of the internet. Are we aware of the potential damage that is caused by mere words expressed here on T-net?
Please, I ask that you choose your words wisely. There’s more at stake than you realize.
Now, I spent a lot of time on this post with my two finger typing abilities. You can repay me by at least thinking about what I said.
Respectively,
Dave.
(Someone who loves and cares about this hobby.)
P.S. this post is not directed towards the entity known as TreasureNet but rather, a few of its collective components.
Long post eh?
it is better not to ask for places we can already detect or some bureaucrat will say no and now nobody can hunt there.
I won’t go into detail about this as Tom has many lengthy posts covering this subject. I do agree with this to a point.
The big question is how far can we go with this mentality?
A recent argument has occurred on the issue of bank foreclosures and those in favour of searching these properties without obtaining permission are using Tom’s form of reasoning.
So we now take the concept of public land being open to all and apply that to private land (Bank property is not public) and justify trespassing because it’s bank land and nobody likes banks.
Surely they will say no anyway.
The foreclosures were a sad thing to see in America and since banks are powerful and heartless, then it’s o.k. to search the properties they own without permission.
I’m sure many have justified short changing some big box store because they’re so big and greedy but in reality, the money may come out of the pocket of some poor employee working at minimum wage.
Anyway, so now that it seems acceptable to hunt these foreclosures, what about the other boarded up homes?
Are all the boarded up homes bank property or do some of these belong to private individuals?
I remember the warning ticket I got as a teenager when my friend and I went out into the country and saw an “abandoned” old house. We parked on the side of the road and started detecting. Later that evening, the R.C.M.P. contacted my friend (It was his car) and said his plate number was called in for trespassing and luckily the landowner didn’t press charges so we got a warning.
What do you know…. The boarded up property was not abandoned and was owned by someone. DOH! Lesson learned.
I revealed this past story to highlight my question…..Do you know for sure it’s a bank foreclosure? Surely it’s not abandoned like my naive teenage thinking.
So, assuming this bank foreclosure property is an acceptable place to hunt (since many on this forum agree that it is) what now, after countless neighbors and passerby’s phone in to complain about people wandering on these properties, digging holes? Surely, this will draw some sort of attention.
Of course it gets worse if some of these properties are in fact owned by private individuals.
Let’s continue with the public property scenario. I’m sure people here are familiar with the grassy strip (boulevard) in front of homes on a city block and how the issue has been another heated topic.
I was quite rebellious in my younger years and after learning that these curb strips were in fact city property, I would hunt block after block and stand my ground when an angry homeowner would come out and yell at me for being on their property. Many people are emotionally attached to this strip of land since they cut and rake the grass.
Many think they own it. After a typical yelling match, I would simply say “Call the cops” and wait for them to arrive. After all, its city property and I’m in the right.
I don’t hunt these areas anymore because I don’t feel it’s worth the hassle.
Now, I think about all the police I tied up from catching real criminals and all the angry people calling the city. Even though I was technically right, I apologize for all the bad publicity I brought to this hobby.
Yes, it still resulted in people calling in and complaining about a guy with a detector.
There’s countless city owned outdoor swimming pools here where I live. The pool and grassy areas around the pool are typically fenced off to keep out skateboarders and others from hanging out in a potentially dangerous empty concrete pit. There maybe equipment stored in this area also.
But this is public property and therefore falls under the category of places you don’t need to ask permission to hunt. On the off season, there maybe a chance that a worker will have the gate open and you could gain entry. However, the worker may tell you one of three things……
1. Call the city and ask their boss as they don’t have the authority to give permission (which may end in a big fat NO.)
2. Yes, you have 1 hour while I’m here working.
3. NO!
Based on this, it seems easier to just hop the fence when no one is around and since its public property, no need to ask anyone who will most likely say no or put them in a position where now no one can hunt this property. Right?
So, what of all the home owners around the pool looking out their window? What of all the people walking by that happen to see you hopping the fence? You can guarantee someone will call in or at least harbour bitter feelings towards the guy with a detector.
The city also owns several public golf courses here in my area. These places are also fenced off and surely no one would want hunt there when golfers are playing, so wait until the off season.
Why would you want to hunt there?
Well, it’s still old property as the golf course opened a hundred years ago and before that, had some colonial homes in the area.
Again, why ask since its public property? The window of opportunity is narrow as golfers are diehards like us, braving the elements and it may be closed for only a short period of time. Golfers are also passionate about their game and greens and may possibly wrap their golf club around your neck if they see you digging there.
The groundskeepers will not be happy also so, it’s just easier to just hop the fence when no one is around, risking being seen and all that jazz. But it is public property after all.
Let’s list some more public places. We have hospitals, police stations, parliament grounds, sports complexes, and schools.
O.K. hospitals can be dicey. In Canada, they are public but the administrators will say no because it may disturb the patients who sit outside.
Still, public land so, let’s gives it a whirl until the security guards kick us out. As for the suffering patients watching you capitalize from change and jewelry that was lost by previous patients….
Hey it’s city property!
Next, we have police stations which are public property. If you’re brave enough to try this without asking for permission…….Wow!
The parliament buildings and grounds are technically owned by the taxpayers but any government official working inside will tell every security guard to boot out anyone detecting there.
Sorry, you are allowed to walk the grounds holding a detector but not permitted to penetrate the ground in any way.
Again, in my younger years and after being kicked out a dozen times by security, I deemed this place as being too much of a hassle.
I’ve tried every argument in the book with no avail.
Many sports complexes and schools are public places but some are also private.
The public ones, I have always just walked in and detected but things are changing more and more these days. Think of all the horror stories flashing on the news and parents are more fearful than ever. A lot of people would rather you not hunt there.
Even coaches, teachers, groundskeepers because parents are calling in, afraid of the “pervert” roaming the grounds. Add a bunch of newbie’s inspired by reality shows digging big holes and……
I could spend all day talking about different forms of public land and the problems and grey areas they have. My examples may differ than those in another country but I’m sure there are more public places than just parks all over the map. This post will get even bigger if I go into details applicable to everyone, so I better try and wrap things up.
What I see as the biggest threat to our hobby is this very forum. Yes, I’m talking about T-net.
Now everyone is free to make their own judgments, even if that means rationalizing, justifying, and being right until you’re blue in the face.
The possible consequences will only affect your locality and you can deal with your fellow treasure hunters and authorities locally on your own.
But when you share your opinions and practices on the world’s largest treasure hunting forum, you are affecting all of us globally.
That’s right, globally.
Anyone in the world can view this forum and your comments are recorded almost indefinitely.
Some are trying to bridge the gap between us and the archaeological community and people on this forum are giving them the very dirt they seek on a daily basis.
I have already witnessed academics quoting members comments on their blogs about the lawlessness of us treasure hunters from this very forum. Thanks for giving them more fuel. Is your opinion so precious that you have to jeopardize our entire hobby and spew it all over for everyone to see? Selfishness prevails.
What you do off-line is your business but do you have any regard toward the repercussions your comments may cause here at T-net?
There are members who regularly clean up your mess here by posting good practices (you know, the “Do-gooders”) but things are getting worse each day and these members are overwhelmed.
Too many selfish comments are adding up big time.
Take a good moment to think about all the impressionable minds viewing your comments. What about those who are in a position power that get wind of this growing sentiment?
Sure, they may not be looking but some lackey could point it out to them. Many people deciding the fate of our hobby may look to this forum for answers.
Can you see the global picture here?
How do you want those on-lookers to see us collectively?
It’s bad enough there are people phoning in to complain about trespassing and disregard for public land in every city.
It seems to be no coincidence that those making poor choices in what they say here support the metal detecting reality shows (Maybe not all of them.)
Those shows are another thorn in our side but that issue has been discussed quite a bit here already. If one was to look at the many threads on these shows and the recent bank foreclosure thread, they will see a division among detectorists.
Yes, all of humanity is divided but so are treasure hunters and yet we share the same passion.
Can we at least try and work together for the better of our hobby? Or is everyone in it for themselves.
In closing, I am not targeting Tom of Ca. He has made many valid points over the years.
However, his posts are wide open for interpretation. His overall message can be taken much further than he intended as to when we should ask for permission.
I made an attempt here to point out how far it can go with one’s rationalization. I also wanted to show the possible negative consequences.
I’m sure I’ve offended people with this post but my overall concern expressed here, outweighs the desire to make friends or to achieve popularity.
I am speaking from personal experience as I too, made some harmful decisions during my early years.
We all know the power of the internet. Are we aware of the potential damage that is caused by mere words expressed here on T-net?
Please, I ask that you choose your words wisely. There’s more at stake than you realize.
Now, I spent a lot of time on this post with my two finger typing abilities. You can repay me by at least thinking about what I said.
Respectively,
Dave.
(Someone who loves and cares about this hobby.)
P.S. this post is not directed towards the entity known as TreasureNet but rather, a few of its collective components.
Long post eh?
Heck, that's even a risk even for those who feel the need to go to city hall and ask "can I detect?" (as if to believe that will make them immune from this). Lo & behold they get a "yes", and go detecting. But someone STILL complains (a gardener, a cop, or whatever). The proud md'r whips out his "permission", only to have it just as quickly revoked, as soon as the busy-body gets on his cellphone and calls city hall. So my "stance" is not what causes complaints. They can happen anywhere, at any time. And to the extent "my stance" compells someone to go out, and garner a complaint, yes, there's that risk. But there's an equal or greater risk which I have pointed out many times, that to think you/we can pre-empt and avoid that risk, by going and asking "can I?", can also generate "no's", in places where no one ever *really* cared, or would have been noticed. I go park hunting all the time and don't "get complaints". However, I'm a long-time ace at this (35+ yrs. and have grown eyes on the back-of-my head so-to-speak). I know that newbies can't often "get that" (on how to not "stick out", etc...). Thus, yes, they may draw lookie-lous, and thus the be the "latest thread" of "oh no, I got kicked out of my park" type thread. Not sure how to avoid this chain of events, but I also know that "going to city hall and asking" has it's equal amount of "chain of events" 
