the everything site ...?

Roy,

"My view on this is that while the Thunderbird symbol is of recent import in Southwestern JEWELRY, it has a long tradition among Southwestern tribes, being most likely some species of giant bird that once existed in most of America."

Had we been discussing a giant species of bird, I would be in complete agreement with you......which is pretty much what I have already said. The Thunderbird, such as the one that you posted, is a bird of an entirely different feather. :wink:

Having said that, I am less sure that "all" of the myths of "Thunderbirds" are based on real birds.

People can be mistaken without being liars. Otherwise, there would be absolutely no help for me. I expect my friends, and sometimes those not so friendly, to correct my mistakes on a regular basis.

I find the search for the historical truth of this topic interesting.

Take care,

Joe
 

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Since I have no experience in identifying petroglyphs or any other sort of "paintings" on rocks, how would one go about determining that what you found SH is indeed a rock painting?

Cubfan:
If the image has been painted on the wall,and is very old,I would expect to see something like this...with multiple layers of paint.And if it's applied over a layer of "plaster"....that will be a good indication as to it's origin.
It's not likely that application of "paint" like that on your livingroom wall would be very old.I will also be looking for evidence of various colors having been used,remaining evidence of paint where none is visible in the photo.I don't intend to carry a ladder all the way in,so it may be impossible to look closely at everything.I have seen a number of old paintings like this,on stone structures as well as NA native petros that are up to several hundred years old and plenty of mezo paint on stone exhibits in museums.If this appears to have the same characteristics,I doubt that there would be any reason for me to get any samples.
I would leave that up to Scott's people.
 

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The photo above shows how a mineral plaster was applied to smooth the rough surface of the rock before the paint was applied.This is of a small part of a Maya painted column,exposed to the weather and sun for well over a thousand years.

Regards: SH.
 

Janiece:
With every new discovery,those that question look closer.With every advance in science we learn more about our past.

Regards:SH.
 

somehiker said:
Since I have no experience in identifying petroglyphs or any other sort of "paintings" on rocks, how would one go about determining that what you found SH is indeed a rock painting?

Cubfan:
If the image has been painted on the wall,and is very old,I would expect to see something like this...with multiple layers of paint.And if it's applied over a layer of "plaster"....that will be a good indication as to it's origin.
It's not likely that application of "paint" like that on your livingroom wall would be very old.I will also be looking for evidence of various colors having been used,remaining evidence of paint where none is visible in the photo.I don't intend to carry a ladder all the way in,so it may be impossible to look closely at everything.I have seen a number of old paintings like this,on stone structures as well as NA native petros that are up to several hundred years old and plenty of mezo paint on stone exhibits in museums.If this appears to have the same characteristics,I doubt that there would be any reason for me to get any samples.
I would leave that up to Scott's people.
Click to expand...

If what you find looks like that, I can certainly see how there's no way of mistaking it for a natural anomaly. I was thinking more along the lines of what some of the petroglyphs out there look like - when you get close up to them they just have sort of a dark "flaky" appearance.

Looking forward to hearing how it turns out!
 

Oroblanco said:
Furness - YES I think it is quite possible. I believe that all "thunderbirds" were in fact real animals, just being large birds not mythical, magical critters.

Joe - I am not offended if my opinion carries little or no weight, after all some folks say that I am a born liar! :tongue3: ;D :thumbsup: My view on this is that while the Thunderbird symbol is of recent import in Southwestern JEWELRY, it has a long tradition among Southwestern tribes, being most likely some species of giant bird that once existed in most of America.

Good luck and good hunting amigos, I hope you all find the treasures that you seek.
Oroblanco
Click to expand...

I can guarantee you that extremely large birds (20 foot wingspan) did and still do exist in the American Southwest - I've seen one myself. My posts #8 and 10 at http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,93640.0.html speak for themselves. In addiition, Dave Zander recently spotted one about 50 miles as the crow flies (pardon the pun) east of our sighting. Here's an interview with him: http://www.krqe.com/global/video/po...ne=info&LaunchPageAdTag=homepage&rnd=79947097. I can't speak for Zander's sighting, but I can for mine.
 

News Item:
Thousands of people in and around Gstaad,Switzerland were astounded yesterday,when the legendary Flying Scottsman of Gstaad appeared before their astonished eyes.Longtime resident and firm believer of the folk legend,Ingrid Stauffacher,could only say "Perhaps the rest of the world will now understand that he is real,and makes a lot of noise."
Regards:SH.
 

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Good afternoon my good friend SH: I have spent some days examining your bird (?) picture on the wall and unfortunately, I have come to the conclusion that while it is extremely interesting, it IS "Natures" work. Fascinating.

Remember, "I" am never wrong, snicker, so do not believe what ORO says, he is prejudiced and jealous of my purty mule.

Don Jose de La Mancha
 

Don Jose.. answer my question, LOL.
I have a friend that wears on occassion a kilt, and well I'm not tellin'
Where is the event in Oct? I know it out by the Sups, but where by them?
Janiece
 

Gossamer said:
Don Jose.. answer my question, LOL.
I have a friend that wears on occassion a kilt, and well I'm not tellin'
Where is the event in Oct? I know it out by the Sups, but where by them?
Janiece
Click to expand...

Janiece, if you're coming from the direction of Phoenix, follow Hwy. 60 through Gold Canyon and shortly after that turn left on Peralta Road. It quickly becomes a dirt road and you'll travel it for about 7-8 miles or so. I think there are 1 or 2 forks in the main road and you want to stay to the left (If there are signs saying Peralta Trailhead, you want to follow those). Shortly before you reach the end (Peralta Trailhead parking lot), you should see a gated drive off to the left - towards the vertical cliffs. That's the Don's Club camping area where everyone will be.

There are a few aerial map websites that have good enough resolution that you can follow Peralta Road from 60 and see exactly where you have to go. In fact, if maps.ask.com is working right, you can even zoom down using the satelite feature and see the cement structures including a small amphiteater and a a number of circular and rectangular cement buildings at the location.

Those directions should get you there :) Hope to get a chance to meet you - I'm going to be out there for 2 weeks hiking and exploring as much as I can.

Actually Janiece, I tried the maps.ask.com site and if you go to the Don's Club campground and click on the "birds eye view," you'll be astounded at what you'll be able to see!
 

Gossamer,

Carolyn and I try to get there Thursday afternoon to get our camp set up. If you like, I will give you our cell # and you can call if you need any assistance. I don't believe you can see the Don's gate from the dirt road. There will be a dirt road that turns off to the left, and as Paul said, it will be before you get to the Peralta Trailhead. There is a large boulder at the right side of that entrance.....maybe Randy will be standing on it. :D Watch to the right and you will see the gate up the hill.

I would guess there will be a sign at the turn off to the camp.

Look forward to seeing you there.

Take care,

Joe Ribaudo
 

THANK YOU GUYS, I really appreciate the invite and would to come... do we camp out there?
What to bring?
Janiece
 

LMAO.. Don Jose, this is the journal that I had talked about 6 mo. ago... its a fascinating exploration and a very interesting time for this kind of exploration.
His experiences are amazing, and his experiences with early Mormons truly interesting.
Notice to whom the book is dedicated
To
Morris K. Jesup, M.A., LL.D.
President of the American Museum of Natural History of New York
The Patron and Friend of Science
This Work Is Respectfully Dedicated As a Token of Gratitude and Regard

Interesting name in the news.

Cubby, this is what I sent around a while ago... great stuff...

Don Jose... are you going to come to the shindig?

Janiece
 

Allo Gossamer Luv: I would love to, but sniff, business before pleasure etc. If you can find a book "Travels in old Mexico by BOX, you will swoon, a fantastic book.

I traveled though most of the area that lumholtz did in Sonora, Chihuahua, Sinaloa, and Durango.with only my mule. Many of those places were effectively abandoned, especially Tubares. but are being repopulated now

The following are references to Tubares in my exploration for the GloriaPan Mine.

http://historyhuntersinternational.org/index.php?topic=189.210

http://historyhuntersinternational.org/index.php?topic=189.360 post 366

http://historyhuntersinternational.org/index.php?topic=189.375 post 380


Don Jose de La Mancha
 

Don Jose, you are so cute... LOL. I'm sorry I won't get the chance to meet both you and your mule.
I would love to hear the stories you have, and very interested in the 'mystical' aspect that we have touched on.
Alas, though... duties are duties.
Janiece
 

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