The BIG Duper

[Rebel - KGC]

The problem with placing any trust in any information that has been passed by word of mouth isn't just the fact that people have the tendency to embellish upon the information, but there has also many studies that show how the accuracy of the details become widely distorted and inaccurate when passed in such a way. In grade school many of us participated in those fun little sessions where everyone sat in a circle and listened to a story, from here we all took turns repeating the story and the details always took on a dramatic change each time the story was retold from memory. This exercise was specifically designed to illustrate just how inaccurate word of mouth information can be. So from a research standpoint you just can't place any trust in this type of information even when the teller believes that they are passing that information in earnest. So if it's not been documented in some way then it just can't be trusted because more then likely it will not be even closely accurate to the original tale.

HA! Not ALL "word of mouth"... bits & pieces in WRITTEN histories, diaries, and books by the late Peter Viemeister (RIP), "Grand Master" of all things "Beale" in this area; Past PRESIDENT of Bedford Historical Society... HE had access to stuff/info that "we" can only "dream about".

 

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[franklin]

He was also vice president of a company that helped to put the first man on the moon.

HA! Not ALL "word of mouth"... bits & pieces in WRITTEN histories, diaries, and books by the late Peter Viemeister (RIP), "Grand Master" of all things "Beale" in this area; Past PRESIDENT of Bedford Historical Society... HE had access to stuff/info that "we" can only "dream about".

 

[Rebel - KGC]

He was also vice president of a company that helped to put the first man on the moon.

That is CORRECT!

 

[bigscoop]

He also knew how to sell a lot of books, how to keep the legend fueled, and how to raise a lot of what-ifs.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

He also knew how to sell a lot of books, how to keep the legend fueled, and how to raise a lot of what-ifs.

SO...? PV was an HISTORIAN, NOT Profit-oriented, and the "What-ifs" are covered in his book, THE BEALE TREASURE: NEW History of a MYSTERY; your "remark" about PV is VERY offensive! STOP!

 

[bigscoop]

SO...? PV was an HISTORIAN, NOT Profit-oriented, and the "What-ifs" are covered in his book, THE BEALE TREASURE: NEW History of a MYSTERY; your "remark" about PV is VERY offensive! STOP!

You're taking the comment wrong. PV was a very smart man, no doubt about it. But he was also an author who raised a lot of potential what-ifs in regards to the mystery. The problem here is just like everything else with this mystery, that being that there's just no supporting evidence that allows us to connect much of anything back to the story in the Beale pamphlet. So - "what-ifs" - they are.

The BIG Duper has duped a lot of smart people, and it still is. At some point it's had us all duped.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

You're taking the comment wrong. PV was a very smart man, no doubt about it. But he was also an author who raised a lot of potential what-ifs in regards to the mystery. The problem here is just like everything else with this mystery, that being that there's just no supporting evidence that allows us to connect much of anything back to the story in the Beale pamphlet. So - "what-ifs" - they are.

The BIG Duper has duped a lot of smart people, and it still is. At some point it's had us all duped.

You calling PV, the "BIG DUPER"...? STOP the "name-calling"!

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

You calling PV, the "BIG DUPER"...? STOP the "name-calling"!

Rebel, if "PV" is not a member here BS is breaking no rules.

 

[bigscoop]

You calling PV, the "BIG DUPER"...? STOP the "name-calling"!

Reb, the title of this thread is "The BIG Duper"....this thread is in regards to the unknown author and the manner in which "he" duped/deceived his readers, the manner in which "he" has duped us all at some point. No insult of any form has been launched at PV, all I've said is that despite his efforts there is still absolutely nothing (supporting evidence) that can be directly connected back to the Beale pamphlet story. Maybe you should take a few weeks away from these forums as in recent weeks you've been taking a great deal of comments as some type of a personal insult. Just not so in this case. I even agreed with you that PV was a very smart man.

Having said all of this, there is still absolutely not one shred of evidence to support the notion that the letters, ciphers, or iron box were ever real other then hearsay and lore. Sad, but true. And, we do no beyond a shadow of doubt that the unknown author presented his story and the ciphers by predetermined design. So very clearly, and by the unknown author's own presentation and words, we know the information he provided about the numbering of the ciphers is not true. This is "the big duper"....not PV.

 

[franklin]

bigscoop, You say that the iron box was not real. Have you read Pauline Innis' book, "Gold in the Blue Ridge?' You know the book that was wrote back in the early 1970's. She said that the two small pieces of paper that looked like receipts were the only thing left in the iron box. Where do you think the iron box came from? RIght where George I. Hart told her, she would find it in Roanoke, Va at the home of a descendant of the Otey Family. There is more in her new version of the book or the gold edition. I believe the Beale Treasure could be real and I research the story when ever I can. Today I found out when TJB Sr died and how old he was. I also found out when Jr. died and that he was an illegitimate son of TJB Sr. I also got a lead on where some more of TJB Sr.'s family papers may be located and I will continue to look into the facts of the story until I either prove or disprove the "Job Print Pamphlet" Right now the story looks like it is true to me.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

bigscoop, You say that the iron box was not real. Have you read Pauline Innis' book, "Gold in the Blue Ridge?' You know the book that was wrote back in the early 1970's. She said that the two small pieces of paper that looked like receipts were the only thing left in the iron box. Where do you think the iron box came from? RIght where George I. Hart told her, she would find it in Roanoke, Va at the home of a descendant of the Otey Family. There is more in her new version of the book or the gold edition. I believe the Beale Treasure could be real and I research the story when ever I can. Today I found out when TJB Sr died and how old he was. I also found out when Jr. died and that he was an illegitimate son of TJB Sr. I also got a lead on where some more of TJB Sr.'s family papers may be located and I will continue to look into the facts of the story until I either prove or disprove the "Job Print Pamphlet" Right now the story looks like it is true to me.

bs, PV has been dead for several years; around here, "BIG DUPER" implies that the person is a CON man/woman; thank you for clarifying that you meant the "unknown author" of the Beale PAPERS...

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Rebel, if "PV" is not a member here BS is breaking no rules.

PV is DEAD!

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Reb, the title of this thread is "The BIG Duper"....this thread is in regards to the unknown author and the manner in which "he" duped/deceived his readers, the manner in which "he" has duped us all at some point. No insult of any form has been launched at PV, all I've said is that despite his efforts there is still absolutely nothing (supporting evidence) that can be directly connected back to the Beale pamphlet story. Maybe you should take a few weeks away from these forums as in recent weeks you've been taking a great deal of comments as some type of a personal insult. Just not so in this case. I even agreed with you that PV was a very smart man.

Having said all of this, there is still absolutely not one shred of evidence to support the notion that the letters, ciphers, or iron box were ever real other then hearsay and lore. Sad, but true. And, we do no beyond a shadow of doubt that the unknown author presented his story and the ciphers by predetermined design. So very clearly, and by the unknown author's own presentation and words, we know the information he provided about the numbering of the ciphers is not true. This is "the big duper"....not PV.

TY!

 

[bigscoop]

bigscoop, You say that the iron box was not real. Have you read Pauline Innis' book, "Gold in the Blue Ridge?' You know the book that was wrote back in the early 1970's. She said that the two small pieces of paper that looked like receipts were the only thing left in the iron box. Where do you think the iron box came from? RIght where George I. Hart told her, she would find it in Roanoke, Va at the home of a descendant of the Otey Family. There is more in her new version of the book or the gold edition. I believe the Beale Treasure could be real and I research the story when ever I can. Today I found out when TJB Sr died and how old he was. I also found out when Jr. died and that he was an illegitimate son of TJB Sr. I also got a lead on where some more of TJB Sr.'s family papers may be located and I will continue to look into the facts of the story until I either prove or disprove the "Job Print Pamphlet" Right now the story looks like it is true to me.

But we already know for certain that some of the details offered in the story were not true/accurate, by design. So if the details are not true/accurate then how can the story be true/accurate? It can't be.

In other words, since we have already established that our unknown author set out to deceive the general public then how can accept all of the hearsay in support of the tale as being gospel? Clearly there is a BIG problem here.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Nah... MHO is, it WASN'T really FOR the "general public"; only a "select few" in the Lynchburg/Bedford County "area" who KNEW about the REAL story. Maj. F.C. Hutter had just died in 1885 (former CSA PAYMASTER, working for the City Of Lynchburg Internal Revenue Service after the CW), and they wanted to "out" ANYONE, who "knew' about the CSA Treasure for VIRGINIA (aka "Beale Treasure"). LOTS of REBELS (CSA) lived in Lynchburg, Va. "area", AFTER the CONFEDERATE WAR; Gen. Jubal Early was a PRACTICING Attorney, Gen. TT Munford had a BIG farm in Bedford County on Coffee Road, Maj. EF Hutter had a BIG Mansion & River-Mount Construction Co. that built the River-Mount Bridge, here in Lynchburg, Va. & MORE! "FACTS of HISTORY".

 

[bigscoop]

Nah... MHO is, it WASN'T really FOR the "general public"; only a "select few" in the Lynchburg/Bedford County "area" who KNEW about the REAL story.

And I think you could be right "if" there is any truth to the tale at all. This would be the only possible circumstance/situation that remains if the story bears any measure of accuracy or truth. But this is quite a reach since we can't even confirm that the letters, ciphers, or iron box ever existed. To this day we can't even draw upon TJB with any confirmed accuracy. So all we really have is the story itself and everything else that has been given birth from the story.

 

[franklin]

All I can say is the iron box exist and is most likely still in the Pauline Innis estate in Washington, D. C. I have no way of finding out.

 

[bigscoop]

All I can say is the iron box exist and is most likely still in the Pauline Innis estate in Washington, D. C. I have no way of finding out.

Even if an empty iron box is in her estate what good is an empty iron box? What does it prove? I've probably got a half dozen empty iron boxes stored in all my junk. What I can't believe is that nobody thought to provide documented evidence in support of their claims when they had to know just how important all of this supporting evidence would be. It's one thing to say, "I saw bigfoot" but it is quite another to produce supporting evidence of those claims, such as pictures. Innis had to know that without that supporting evidence she would be presenting an unsupported claim. I find it hard to believe that she would fail to provide that documentation if it had really existed with any certainty and without question. But that's just me......

 

[bigscoop]

And just so you guys recognize this difference let me add that I since I don't have a personal attachment to some of these local folks I have no loyalties to them, which allows me to examine all of the information and details with unbiased approach. So what I have done is to pick the story apart piece by piece and then I have compared those findings against all of the claims in support of the tale. The end result is that the details provided by the unknown author actually serve to raise suspicion in a lot of the lore and legend and claims about the story. So I think a lot of people have let the written story influence some of their claims without realizing the established deceptions that exist in the tale.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

And I think you could be right "if" there is any truth to the tale at all. This would be the only possible circumstance/situation that remains if the story bears any measure of accuracy or truth. But this is quite a reach since we can't even confirm that the letters, ciphers, or iron box ever existed. To this day we can't even draw upon TJB with any confirmed accuracy. So all we really have is the story itself and everything else that has been given birth from the story.

Well, the "Beale PAPERS" is a COVER STORY that REALLY begins... "It was in the 2nd Year of the CONFEDERATE WAR". April, 1865 was the "END" & FINAL "deposit"; 20 years later, in 1885... the SECRET is revealed; FORGET the "era of 1817-1822; FORGET TJB; FOCUS on 1862/63 "EVENTS" and what was going on in Lynchburg, Va.; then up to 1885... you will be AMAZED!