The BIG Duper

[TN_Guest1523]

Not necessarily, and here's why. Armed with the evidence we've been discussing there can only be two possible solutions to the tale, A) that it was nothing more then a simple dime novel, or B) that it was written with a specific purpose and agenda aimed at a predetermined audience. There can be no other possibilities.

What Jean Laf pasted from the book in post 17 is possibly telling us something very important, just not what most assume. You see, by his own admission the author is telling us that he has already mastered the other ciphers but that this success still didn't allow him a means to the end. So what he is possibly telling us is that even after decoding all three ciphers he still lacked some other requirement. This is the only scenario that still survives which allows for the described events to be true.

So, if there is any measure of truth in this tale then this publication was never intended to be a mystery for the general public, but rather it was written with purpose and intended for a predetermined audience. This later scenario would also explain why the key and ciphers have been altered beyond possible solution, which in the event that they were once real, they have been. So even with all of the established deceptions in the story they still don't eliminate the possibility that the unknown author was detailing an actual event, these deceptions only establishing that the pamphlet was never presented to the general public with possible solution.

How many pages are there for the Cipher?

 

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[Treasure_Hunter]

Jean can not answer posts for the next 3 weeks. I am done giving warnings...

 

[bigscoop]

How many pages are there for the Cipher?

"If" there is any measure of truth to the tale then you need to be asking, "How many keys were required?" Clearly, and by the author's own admission, the DOI by itself did not render him a means to the end. Based on this information there is an old theory that suggested there had to be a forth cipher, but more then likely there had to be a required additional key/element.

Personally, all of the supporting evidence to date, or complete lack of it depending on the approach, strongly suggest that the story was nothing more then a manufactured tale. But we still can't totally eliminate the possibility that the author crafted the tale with specific design for an intended audience beyond the general public. But very clearly the author already knew how to arrange those ciphers so that arrangement fell in line with the presented clear text of C2. There is no doubt that his presentation in regards to the ciphers had been by predetermined design.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

"If" there is any measure of truth to the tale then you need to be asking, "How many keys were required?" Clearly, and by the author's own admission, the DOI by itself did not render him a means to the end. Based on this information there is an old theory that suggested there had to be a forth cipher, but more then likely there had to be a required additional key/element.

Personally, all of the supporting evidence to date, or complete lack of it depending on the approach, strongly suggest that the story was nothing more then a manufactured tale. But we still can't totally eliminate the possibility that the author crafted the tale with specific design for an intended audience beyond the general public. But very clearly the author already knew how to arrange those ciphers so that arrangement fell in line with the presented clear text of C2. There is no doubt that his presentation in regards to the ciphers had been by predetermined design.

Just MHO... Beale Codes/Ciphers are USELESS, anyhow. YES! To "predetermined design", as author was "suddenly called To Richmond"... the CSA PAYMASTER!

 

[franklin]

There were other people that had to go to Richmond during the Civil War besides a Civil War Paymaster. Why not David Saunders, his father was Mayor of Richmond?

Just MHO... Beale Codes/Ciphers are USELESS, anyhow. YES! To "predetermined design", as author was "suddenly called To Richmond"... the CSA PAYMASTER!

 

[Rebel - KGC]

There were other people that had to go to Richmond during the Civil War besides a Civil War Paymaster. Why not David Saunders, his father was Mayor of Richmond?

COULD be... did he live in Lynchburg, Va. ? Dunno... Could David Saunders be the "unknown author"...?

 

[bigscoop]

Can he still read the post?

You don't have to be logged in to read post. So think of it as limited access.

 

[franklin]

Yes, Rebel KGC, It was at his home where Robert Morris died in 1863------think about it. His father lived in Richmond and he was from Bedford County.

COULD be... did he live in Lynchburg, Va. ? Dunno... Could David Saunders be the "unknown author"...?

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Yes, Rebel KGC, It was at his home where Robert Morris died in 1863------think about it. His father lived in Richmond and he was from Bedford County.

THANKS! Didn't make "the connection"; would HE write Beale PAPERS...?

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Just MHO... Beale Codes/Ciphers are USELESS, anyhow. YES! To "predetermined design", as author was "suddenly called To Richmond"... the CSA PAYMASTER!

Just MHO... DOI (NOT "connected" with Beale Code/Cipher # 2) was of CSA/KGC SONS of LIBERTY "broad-side blast" (the PIRATES!) at King Abe from CONFEDERATE WAR "era"; "Liberty" WAS what is now BEDFORD, VIRGINIA. AND! It was/is
the VIRGINIA "portion" of the Confederate Treasury, coming from Richmond, Va., as "RICHMOND STORES". It was moved from Richmond, Va. to Lynchburg, Va. & points WEST, per recommendation from Gen. R. E. Lee to CSA Prez J. Davis (April, 1865). PV was CORRECT!

 

[franklin]

Don't know, both he and his father died strangely within a couple years of each other.

THANKS! Didn't make "the connection"; would HE write Beale PAPERS...?

 

[franklin]

Just MHO... DOI (NOT "connected" with Beale Code/Cipher # 2) was of CSA/KGC SONS of LIBERTY "broad-side blast" (the PIRATES!) at King Abe from CONFEDERATE WAR "era"; "Liberty" WAS what is now BEDFORD, VIRGINIA. AND! It was/is
the VIRGINIA "portion" of the Confederate Treasury, coming from Richmond, Va., as "RICHMOND STORES". It was moved from Richmond, Va. to Lynchburg, Va. & points WEST, per recommendation from Gen. R. E. Lee to CSA Prez J. Davis (April, 1865). PV was CORRECT!

You may be right Rebel KGC, I know of a large KGC/CSA Depository in the area say within 100 miles, that contains 853 boxes of gold specie. The boxes contain five sacks of $5,000 each with a total of $25,000 to the box and has a total of over $21 Million Dollars face value. Today bullion value would be worth $1.26 Billion Dollars and numismatic value would be three times that amount or about $3.78 Billion Dollars.

 

[bigscoop]

There are some strange circumstances that come about when we entertain certain bits of information in regards to Richmond, the names Thomas J. Beale and Robert Morriss, and the years prior to the publication of the pamphlet. For instance, as Jeff of PA pointed out in another thread, there is record of an alderman named Thomas J. Beale having voted in the Jackson Ward district of Richmond VA in 1883. A Robert Morriss of the correct spelling was also in Richmond during this same year. Now this is just two years prior to the pamphlet's publication and we know our unknown author claimed that he had important business affairs in Richmond. But of special interest in this information is the fact that in 1883 Jackson Ward was an affluent and prominent "black district" at the time.

The term "alderman" derives from the word "elder man" so it is possible that both of these Morriss and Beale were of old age in 1883, which depending on just how old they were, this could make both of them the appropriate age to have participated in the adventure described in the pamphlet. It's just strange that a Robert Morriss of the correct spelling and also a Thomas J. Beale are found in Richmond VA in the years leading up to the pamphlet's publication.

Jackson Ward was established in or about 1830 but it eventually became a very affluent and wealthy black district, even earning the claim that it was the black Wallstreet.

And of even stranger occurrence is the fact that nearly all of "our" prior research always seemed to lead us back to Richmond as being the main hub to the possible core of the tale, though we could never discover just what was in Richmond that continued to attract all of our suspects. Now, in 1883, we find a Robert Morriss and Thomas J. Beale there. Two years later we have the pamphlet and an unknown author with important business affairs in Richmond. It's all just very odd.

 

[bigscoop]

Jackson Ward was the city electoral district from 1871 to 1903. A pretty interesting history here for those who care to dive in. But from 1829 - 1830 there were a lot of potential Beale suspects in this city, several of them concluding important business affairs.

 

[ECS]

One part of the Beale story that I found questionable:
WHY BEDFORD COUNTY?
The Thomas Beale of New Orleans had the Uptown Plantation, and most people who would bury a cache would like it close at hand, NOT hundreds of miles away, where they couldn't keep an eye on their buried treasure.

 

[bigscoop]

One part of the Beale story that I found questionable:
WHY BEDFORD COUNTY?
The Thomas Beale of New Orleans had the Uptown Plantation, and most people who would bury a cache would like it close at hand, NOT hundreds of miles away, where they couldn't keep an eye on their buried treasure.

Well, we know the author presented certain deceptions in his story and with such little supporting evidence to most everything he claims one can only wonder as to the true extent of his deceptions. But we do know he has attempted to deceive the general public, or at the very least to allow the public to deceive itself, and we also know that he arranged those deceptions by design. What we don't know for certain, and might never know for certain, is his true purpose in doing so.

 

[franklin]

If you go to google Ron Gervais and his information on the Beale Treasure. You will see that I found out through kin of the Otey, Buford's and Luck's that a man by the name of Thomas Read buried the treasure and not Thomas J. Beale. These three families knew of the Beale Treasure before it was ever in a Job Print Pamphlet. Also there is a record in the Bedford County Courthouse where Thomas Read borrowed a large wagon with a hoist and busted the hoist and wagon. The wagon belonged to the Sheriff of Bedford County and this was in 1820, When Thomas Read came back to bury the second load of treasure he was ambushed in the mountains and all were killed and buried on the land GP Luck and this story came from GP Luck's grandson Jimmy Luck in front of newspaper and television media coverage. Frank Otey Smith and descendant of the Otey Family agreed with Jimmy Luck. Also the Feds bulldozed the Read Tavern at the forks of the road where Ron Gervis points out his compass readings from the Buford's Tavern. To much to ignore but once you look at other stories it seems there is never going to be a solution to this whole mystery. By the way Frank Otey Smith was I believe a history teacher in Bedford County?

 

[Rebel - KGC]

One part of the Beale story that I found questionable:
WHY BEDFORD COUNTY?
The Thomas Beale of New Orleans had the Uptown Plantation, and most people who would bury a cache would like it close at hand, NOT hundreds of miles away, where they couldn't keep an eye on their buried treasure.

TB of NO is NOT necessary, to the OVERALL "purpose" of the story; it was the "use" of his name... Bedford County...? LIBERTY was the name of BEDFORD, Va. during the Confederate War; KGC/Sons of Liberty/CSA/VMI were ALL "connected"; MANY... FREEMASONS! From BEDFORD, LYNCHBURG... WHEW!

 

[bigscoop]

The problem with placing any trust in any information that has been passed by word of mouth isn't just the fact that people have the tendency to embellish upon the information, but there has also many studies that show how the accuracy of the details become widely distorted and inaccurate when passed in such a way. In grade school many of us participated in those fun little sessions where everyone sat in a circle and listened to a story, from here we all took turns repeating the story and the details always took on a dramatic change each time the story was retold from memory. This exercise was specifically designed to illustrate just how inaccurate word of mouth information can be. So from a research standpoint you just can't place any trust in this type of information even when the teller believes that they are passing that information in earnest. So if it's not been documented in some way then it just can't be trusted because more then likely it will not be even closely accurate to the original tale.

 

[doverturtle]

You may be right Rebel KGC, I know of a large KGC/CSA Depository in the area say within 100 miles, that contains 853 boxes of gold specie. The boxes contain five sacks of $5,000 each with a total of $25,000 to the box and has a total of over $21 Million Dollars face value. Today bullion value would be worth $1.26 Billion Dollars and numismatic value would be three times that amount or about $3.78 Billion Dollars.

If the South had that much money, why did they bury it instead of "persuading" a foreign power to come to their aid?