The Apache of the Southwest of the States and northern Mexico...

Real,

Before we leave the subject of mules I will relate a funny story of my early horse show days.

Now, at that time Arabians were not the average backyard horse. They were rare and pricey beyond even what they should have been. It was kinda a status symbol among an elite group. Movie stars and such. I liked them for what they could do given half a chance.

It took me awhile to acquire a Purebred. When I was finally able it was Hasaad, the cowhorse, pictured above. I made monthly payments on him for a LONG time.

Long before we chased cows together, we worked the regular western show circuit. The breed shows were expensive so we practiced where ever there was an open event for all breeds. This was local events where all you needed was a truck and trailer, health papers, and a $5 entry fee.

I often showed and shared travel expenses with a friend of mine, Kathy, who was about my age and who also had an Arabian gelding showing in western events. Now I’ve never been beautiful. Cute was about the best I could do on a good day. Hasaad was a fine riding horse but he was not the embodiment of Arabian, or equine for that matter, conformational perfection.

However; Kathy was a very pretty young woman and her horse was very structurally correct. He having won many halter titles including a Buckeye Top Eight as a yearling. Which was no small thing. He was nice and deserved every bit of it. He was a solid mahogany bay, which would appear to the eye to be a black. Although he was genetically a bay. Very pretty to the eye and not something you would over look in the ring. Kathy, small of statue and very attractive with long platinum blond hair. Collectively they were a stunning pair.

On this particular day we showed up, at an open to all show, unloaded and began our show preparations and such. Including going to the show office and entering our classes. I had the good sense NOT to enter the halter classes that judged a horse on lead, stood up for the judge to gauge his overall appearance and structural correctness. Not so for Kathy. By gosh, she entered that class straight away.

As we warmed up our horses for the under saddle classes we noticed the bray of mules in the parking lot. Sure enough some folks with mules were also preparing to show that day. Okay, fine. The more the merrier. Or so we thought.

I forget how the under saddle classes went. Its not burned in my memory as is the halter class. Suffice it to say, I don’t remember being bucked off so it must have been a semi okay outing.

Well…….along came time for the halter class. I left Hasaad tied to the trailer munching his hay and helped Kathy and Max prepare for the class. He was spit shined and mighty handsome as they made their way to the arena.

You guessed it. The mules, both of them, were also entered in the class. I stood on the rail and watched as each handler presented their charge. The mules took their turn and made a fine showing of themselves. As did Kathy and Max.

In time the judge’s card was turned in and the announcer called out the placings. The mules were first and second, someone I don’t remember as 3rd., and poor Kathy and Max as 4th. Guess the judge didn’t favor Arabians <g>. I had to stumble my way back to the trailer I was laughing so hard. I almost needed a rescue squad for oxygen. It was a miscarriage in justice but the dang funniest one I’d seen in a long time. The only thing I could say……between gasps for air….was “well, they were fine looking mules.

Kathy failed to see the humor. Its still a touchy subject with her today.
 

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:laughing7:I can just see that in my imagination.:laughing7: gracias Lynda. My mule would've appreciated that. Incidentally she was famous for lying on her side and scooting under standard barbed wire to get at growing wheast, her favorite. i had to buy many a bushel of green wheat, but in my opinion she earned it. She was a scrounger. Sides I kinda liked her. She was good company on the high sierras, and would notify me of any lurking bandidos nr other strangers nearby.,, far better than a hoiund dog. :coffee2::coffee2:

Oro is a horse guy, his loss :laughing7:

Incidently, you are more than just cute
 

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Oro is a horse guy, his loss :laughing7:

Well in defense of horses, I have never had a horse kill one of my own dogs, while on the other hand one of the mules we had, managed to kill two of them in short order. Which to tie in with our topic, it is true that Apaches and several other tribes viewed mules as edible meat. After losing two dogs to one mule, I could easily understand their reasoning.

:coffee2: :coffee: :coffee2:
 

Dave, people see what they want to see within these posts. I've learned that the hard way. ...

... Somewhere back in the many pages here I said something to the effect....Everyone's life experiences are different...... To me, just me, that's an important factor. Many times when I question something its because I want to know more about that poster and what brought them to place where they would hold a particular idea, concept (whatever). Not just whether I agree with what they have said, BUT what's behind it that makes that person tick. What are the life experiences of that person that causes them to come to the opinion that they hold, right or wrong. And that person (just like me) can have different trigger points on different subjects. ...

The theories, experiences, opinions, arguments, etc, centered on treasure hunting are one thing. However, to me, the the most interesting and intriguing part is not so much peoples' beliefs, but why they believe what they do. Same applies to history, politics, religion, science and all other aspects of our lives.
 

Well in defense of horses, I have never had a horse kill one of my own dogs, while on the other hand one of the mules we had, managed to kill two of them in short order. Which to tie in with our topic, it is true that Apaches and several other tribes viewed mules as edible meat. After losing two dogs to one mule, I could easily understand their reasoning.

:coffee2: :coffee: :coffee2:[/QUI'OTE]I've always recognized the many attributes of mules and tried to like them, but they don't like me! They will wait all day for the chance to kick the #### out of me.
 

A mule realy needs no defence, in unknown mt country, such as I found myself in, he is far superior. He is a far better scrounger, safer on the trail, and those long ears pickup sounds far better than a horse, lets you know when you have unwanted company, etc. But I have learned to not to come up behind a dozing mule tied to a rope to allow grazing at night.. I made that mistake once, and quickly found myself with two hoofs on either side of my body, didn't hit me but tore my shirt to pieces.

Horses for speed in the open, where the Comanche and Apache excelled ,Mules for the rest. better tasting also :tongue3:
 

In the WW2 the Italians ( as Nazi allies ) ate all the mules and the donkeys of the Greek territory . They would ate and the horses if did't need them in the war .
 

I've never eaten mule meat but wild burro is delicious (very similar to veal), much better than beef & nowhere near as rank taste of horse meat. I find it amusing some people don't like burros or mules for work animals, either one will work a horse to death & get in fewer jackpots w/ much poorer food because they don't trust them... but they show the same willingness to fight back & defend themselves as the women we love...
 

In two occasions I ate horse and otter .
 

They also eat turtles and cats .

Can't fathom the cats......but I hear tell turtle is a real delicacy. Wouldn't know myself, never ate any. But those that do tell me its better than lobster.
 

I used to trade snapping turtles to Chinks Cafe, They sold out as fast as I could catch them, Turtle Soup was the best.

Wrmickel1
 

Can't fathom the cats......but I hear tell turtle is a real delicacy. Wouldn't know myself, never ate any. But those that do tell me its better than lobster.

Lynda,

As I recall, the best cat tacos were sold on the bridge leaving TJ.:cat:

Good luck,

Joe
 

I have ate roasted rattlers and tarantula.... both taste like... c....
 

Tarantulas, not me. Snakes and lizards yes. I'm not to go on anything that I have to eat the innards of. :tongue3:
 

PS sorry but I missed this part, IPUK wrote


Yes, fairly recent history has shown when that view point about the "pure race" purebloods became very popular, and included taking steps to ensure the purity of the race by exterminating the polluting factors over there in Europe by the millions in concentration camps. Fortunately the "mixed blood" or 'mongrel' Americans joined in to help put a stop to it. Besides, that idea of keeping a pure race of humans is not a good idea even if viewed from the point of an agriculturalist, for any farmer can attest to what is known as "hybrid vigor" - crossing of breeds results in improved livestock (animals, which humans can be classed as) and improved crops. On the other hand, trying to create and 'purify' any particular race or breed, has very often resulted in physical defects; inbreeding and line breeding to further 'purify' tends to increase the physical defects and result in unhealthy animals, as has happened with a number of different dog breeds and also in horses etc. Having a bit of Indian blood is more likely to be a positive factor in health.


I am dropping out of this discussion, will follow it and respond to anything directed at me out of courtesy, but otherwise I will refrain from posting. Thank you all for the very interesting discussion, I hope to read many more posts - please do continue.

Oroblanco


:coffee: :coffee2: :coffee2:




Oroblanco,


I hope you do keep posting on this sub-thread; it is good to exchange thoughts, ideas and information with one of the more erudite members who takes a calm, measured and mature viewpoint.

Recently, I have been researching various things in anticipation of projects for the new year and 'ol Mexico has been particularly interesting. I had hoped the sly, old fox in Alamos would be amenable to a spot of cache hunting at his site, but I respect his decision.

The Sierra Madre is getting more and more fascinating with each report, book, archive and story that I delve into...

In the 1990s, there was/is a Johnny Gringo who started off across the American border into the Madres with the hope of being one of the few people to have crossed the length of that range of mountains. Apparently, he only had a mule for transportation and a couple of saddlebags worth of supplies and items. On his venture, he came across a rich goldmine and is now settled in those mountains which a Mexican wife and is still recalled by many cowboys, farmers, narcos, the odd missionary, natives and even officials. They even refer to him in mysterious terms as the "Gringo mule"...

It has been very interesting reading about Lumholtz's travels as well. What is it with Norwegians and a fascination with those particular mountains?

The thing with finding a gold/silver mine in the Madres is this: you'd need plenty of backing or resources to open it up unless there was already a cache or stockpile stored waiting its lucky finder...

Getting back to the Apache, even Lumholtz said that the Mexicans near the turn of the 19th century, were still terrified by the broncos still out and, apart from the foothills, an area of 250 miles long, was still sparsely settled and known because of this relatively small band of Chiricahua still living there.

Also another book I came across, detailed how a group of Chiricahua from Oklahoma came across the border in the 1980s, to try and contact their brethren they still believed were living in the mountains. The natives told them it was highly unlikely but the Oklahomans said that the old Chiricahua had said "always look where the wild mustangs roam and there you will find the Wild Ones." The Mexican natives tried explaining that there was no more herds of wild horses and that no Apache raid or camp had been discovered decades, but the visitors were just glad to see 'their' mountains that their ancestors had roamed and left satisfied that they'd done their best.

Interesting stuff - reckon that those mountains still hold plenty of secrets if one can separate the truthful from the fanciful...


IPUK
 

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IPOK, tell me more about this Johny Gringo.:coffee2::coffee2: I wonder if I know him. My Period was from the 1950's on.
























































+
 

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Senor Donny,

There isn't too much information around about him. His real name isn't known, he started his quest with his mule in Chihuahua state in the early 1990s, he is still living in Mexico - supposedly still in the Madres with a Mexican senorita, he found a goldmine during his travels, he made a favourable impression with all those that he came into contact with and has the nom de guerre "gringo mula".


IPUK
 

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