Stephen Girard & the Opium Trade?

[Old Silver]

Back in the day it was part of the Virgina colonies. Kentucky also has a strange political history that plays something of a role in the differences explained. For instance, trade from New Orleans was prohibited, and at one time General Wilkinson thought Kentucky should cede to Spanish control, or something to that nature, but his suggestion was put down. Also, there was great political divide that existed in early Virgina that you might want to explore.

The whole of the state was once Kentucky County, Virginia. But Kentucky became it's own state in 1792.

 

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[bigscoop]

Bedford County was not that large back in the day, but Botetourt County included all of the State of Kentucky.

Point being....you have to look at Virgina back in the day, not the present. With all of the other connections having been made there's no doubting which Beale was being referenced, or why.

 

[bigscoop]

The whole of the state was once Kentucky County, Virginia. But Kentucky became it's own state in 1792.

I included Wilkinson in my post for a reason as this was the same man who negotiated the neutral ground agreement with Spanish authorities in regards to the disputed territory of the Louisiana Purchase/Texas border. In short, neither the US or Spain had authority over the region. But don't get this confused with the ongoing dispute over Texas as the two were not the same issue.

 

[Old Silver]

In my pamphlet on the Beale Treasure I published in 1990, I have a deed of land sale from your TJB to Charlotte Atwell when he moved from Virginia to Kentucky. He is not the right TJB. I know where his home place was located on the South Fork of the Cumberland River. Check his age.

Peter Viemeister seemed to think those two were different Thomas Beales.

 

[bigscoop]

Now this is all going to lead up to the deposits and the need for a mutually agreed third party, and I realize it's also throwing a lot at you at once, but just keep all of the previously eluded to political games in mind when you consider this next trinket.....

The original Vine & Olive Colony grant was approved in 1817 with a 14 year term, or concluding in 1831. This is one year prior to the critical Convention of 1832. Now then, was this Vine & Olive Colony timeline by coincidence or by design? No doubt in my mind it was by design.

 

[bigscoop]

There is no doubting which Thomas Beale was the pamphlet's Thomas Beale. To doubt this is to doubt it in writing.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Salt Lick....not, Big Lick. Also, Bedford county was much larger back in the day, as was Virginia. He said he guessed, from some western potion of the state, "in loose reference".

NOPE! BIG LICK! "Google" IT!

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Salt Lick Creek is a creek in the counties of Knot, and Floyd, in Eastern KY. Not too far from the VA line, and about 250-300 miles from Bedford.

MAY have been part of "OLD" Virginia... dunno.

 

[Old Silver]

Birth:	unknown
Death:	Jan., 1841
Burial: Old Protestant Cemetery Macau Concelho de Macau, Macau Cemetery notes and/or description: The Old Protestant Cemetery was founded in 1821 after the British East India Company purchased a plot of land to address a need for Protestants to be buried within the Catholic Portuguese colony of Macau. Robert Morrison, who is buried here, was instrumental in lobbying for the cemetery's purchase. Prior to 1821, Protestants had to bury their dead secretly in the no-man's-land between Macau and China, neither of which was willing to allow such burials in their territories. A number of graves were relocated from outside the Macau walls into the cemetery. The cemetery accepted burials until 1858, when another cemetery, the New Protestant Cemetery, was opened. Thomas Beale ( - 1841) - Find A Grave Memorial

 

[Rebel - KGC]

In CHINA...? !!!

 

[Old Silver]

In CHINA...? !!!

I believe so. Macau, China.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

I believe so. Macau, China.

Hmmm...

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Western part "of the state" (Virginia) is Botetourt County (Fincastle, Va.), where "Beale's Rifles" (TB, Sr.) was from for Battle of New Orleans (War of 1812); Co. A - Blue Ridge Rifles or Co. I - Mountain Rifles. BTW, Roanoke, Va. was known as BIG LICK, Va. "in those days

If it works; MAY be interesting info; "google" Botetourt County, Virginia/learn/Family Search.org. Hmmm... Blue Ridge Rifles & Mountain Rifles were REBS of the 28th Infantry; Botetourt County, Va.

 

[Old Silver]

If it works; MAY be interesting info; "google" Botetourt County, Virginia/learn/Family Search.org.

The reason we're saying Saltlick Creek (KY) is because that's where Peter Veimeister said a Thomas Beale bought a large tract of land (almost a thousand acres) in 1819. He said this Thomas Beale gave his home address as Maco, China.

 

[Old Silver]

The reason we're saying Saltlick Creek (KY) is because that's where Peter Veimeister said a Thomas Beale bought a large tract of land (almost a thousand acres) in 1819. He said this Thomas Beale gave his home address as Maco, China.

I'm sorry, it was almost 10,000 acres Thomas Beal bought, not almost 1,000 acres.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

The reason we're saying Saltlick Creek (KY) is because that's where Peter Veimeister said a Thomas Beale bought a large tract of land (almost a thousand acres) in 1819. He said this Thomas Beale gave his home address as Maco, China.

I DO remember that...

 

[Rebel - KGC]

YET! MORE R & I (Research & Investigation) for ya... according to NEW ORLEANS ARCHITECTURE: JEFFERSON City, pg 41-45; TB, Sr. died in New Orleans area (Rickerville) in 1820; his son, TB, "Jr" was illegitimate (mother was Cloe Delancy) & also died in New Orleans area (Rickerville) in 1823. They had the BEALE PLANTATION in that area... etc, etc. "Google" New Orleans Architecture: Jefferson City, pg 41-45. HH!

 

[Old Silver]

Thomas Chay Beale Birth:	Dec. 13, 1805
Death:	Nov. 8, 1857
Thomas Chaye was a cousin of opium trader and merchant Daniel Beale and his brother Thomas Beale. As early as 1826 he was a partner in the trading firm of Magniac & Co. in Canton, China. In the 1830s he left Magniacs and operated on his own until 1845 when he established the Shanghai based agency house of Dent, Beale & Co. with Lancelot Dent. By 1851 Beale was Portuguese Consul and Dutch Vice Counsel in the city.
Burial: Shantung Road Cemetery Shanghai Shanghai Municipality, China
Created by: S Rohrbeck Record added: Dec 02, 2011 Find A Grave Memorial# 81407647 Thomas Chay Beale (1805 - 1857) - Find A Grave Memorial

 

[Rebel - KGC]

YET! MORE R & I (Research & Investigation) for ya... according to NEW ORLEANS ARCHITECTURE: JEFFERSON City, pg 41-45; TB, Sr. died in New Orleans area (Rickerville) in 1820; his son, TB, "Jr" was illegitimate (mother was Cloe Delancy) & also died in New Orleans area (Rickerville) in 1823. They had the BEALE PLANTATION in that area... etc, etc. "Google" New Orleans Architecture: Jefferson City, pg 41-45. HH!

Fits "story" better; knew that "Sr." went to New Orleans after duel with JB Risque...

 

[bigscoop]

"IF" you wish to keep trying to fit Beale Sr. into the story then you need to determine if he was related, in some way, to your Salt Lick Beale. The problem with thinking that Beale Sr. is your guy is the simple fact that nobody in the area knew him during his visits to Morriss. If Beale Sr. was you man then his identity would have easily been known.