Spain suing Odyssey...

[cosmic]

As far as Spain goes,how many gold mines in Spain? Not many I'm sure.. They STOLE most of it!!!! So how can they claim it is theirs.. The people of South America and Mexico should have the right to some then also...Just like the archeologist that want everything over 100 years old conficated, that way THEY don't have to do anything!!!
Something for nothing!!!

 

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[hmmm]

hmm

 

[Peg Leg]

Just think of how many of those who are Spainish descedents coming across our borders and sending money back to where ever they came from.
How many times has the U.S. helped other countries with food and medical supplies which the American Taxpayer paid the cost?
Peg leg

 

[ivan salis]

well as far as spain selling florida we can't help that they made a dumb deal---but what I wonder is who spain stole it from in the first place---the whole us of a was once indain land---before "the flood" from europe wiped em out------- but for bit of "foregin aid" we are actually get something in return--by the way until air conditioning ---florida was seen as a hot bug infested hell during the spring and summer months ---the only time most folks wanted to come here was the wintertime when it was sub zero up north----Ivan

 

[spez401]

Well... this sure got a little off topic . We went from a lawsuit to human rights violations.

Any news on where Odyssey/Spain stands now? I was hoping to look up some of the pleadings today in my office, but got sidetracked.

steve

 

[G.I.B.]

Spain, being politically correct prior to it becoming 'chic', stole from everyone regardless of ethnicity or origin.

They just want to keep up the tradition and steal from Odyssey now...

~They couldn't steal from themselves~

If me and a couple of my pals ease into the First National Bank, slaughter a few people, enslave a couple others, rape the tellers, and then plant the 'Flag of Larry', would that make the valuables inside mine?

(For more than 20 minutes or so, until the tear gas arrives?)

 

[jeff of pa]

Spain, being politically correct prior to it becoming 'chic', stole from everyone regardless of ethnicity or origin.

They just want to keep up the tradition and steal from Odyssey now...

~They couldn't steal from themselves~

If me and a couple of my pals ease into the First National Bank, slaughter a few people, enslave a couple others, rape the tellers, and then plant the 'Flag of Larry', would that make the valuables inside mine?

(For more than 20 minutes or so, until the tear gas arrives?)

What does this 'Flag of Larry' look like ?

 

[G.I.B.]

Dang, now I gotta design a flag... This ought to be good fun. I'll post it when I got it done and the hangover wears off.

I guess my point is that the people who were slaughtered didn't much care for it. They lived on their land and were doing what we still do today. Try to live a happy peaceful life and raise a family. Just because an invading force killed your family, friends, and culture, then took what was yours, didn't make it right. Not then, not now. It wasn't right in 1512 BC or 1512 AD.

It gripes me that we idolized historical icons for their violence, deceit, and just plain mean spirits. The land actually belonged to someone else when it was 'Conquered' and subsequently sold. Screw the people who actually lived there.

The 'Spanish Treasure' was conquered gold and silver made by an enslaved people. I really don't think any of them volunteered for the duty and the turning over their wealth.

I lost a watch over the side of my boat years ago. I've abandoned any hopes of finding it by not looking for it. If you find it next year, must you give it back to me, or my grandkids.

It's the same theory, regardless of the date on the calender.

I've got this basic moral theory that what is right is right, and what is wrong is, well, for them people who live in that grey area and justify something that isn't right into being right.

Maybe my flag should have a smiley face and 2 cents on it... along with a broken bottle of rum...

 

[G.I.B.]

I'm not slinging mud, what happened is in the past. I just don't agree with the way they did things. Have we learned from it? My point is that I believe that it never belonged to Spain in the first place.

I don't agree with the way some folks lived or what they did. But the question remains, should Spain get the treasure back?

 

[ivan salis]

right now---its american---hehhehe --if you get my drift---now spain or england or god knows who else has to prove "where" it came from and that it is indeed theirs---the coins being spanish means nothing--the money was widely used and changed hands often in those days----heck americans used spanish pieces of eight for many years as money-- and just because you minted it once upon a time--does not mean its "your" money forever ---just that you made it at one time or another---spanish money was widely used and lots of bussiness was conducted using spanish money by "non spanish" folks and countries other than spain during those times-- Ivan

 

[hmmm]

well said ivan ,

 

[ivan salis]

thank you greenie--now for the sake of wondering--lets go with the MERCHANT ROYAL -- A ENGLISH SHIP CARRYING SPANISH ARMY PAYROLL AS CARGO-- just because a ship carries cargo for a differant country ---it does not change the "flag" of ownership to the country of the cargo carried--(thus an american ship carrying japanese cars does not make the ship "japanese"---I personally sailed on just such a ship ---the overseas joyce) the cargo is normally insured and if it is lost the "owner" puts in a claim with the insurance company = loyld's of london quite often--to be paid---once loylds pays for the lost cargo --in effect becomes their "lost" cargo and if it is salvaged --the salvage company gets a large "recovery fee" and the insurance company gets some of its money back from the sale of the "recovered" cargo ---this has been the standard practice of the seafarering world for many many years--the amount of fees allowed are often set by the ships country that it is " flagged" or registered to---in this case there was no "insurance company" the govt of spain was well aware of the "risk" involved and thus the possible loss of cargo at sea--(spain had lost alot of ships thru the years)---it sailed the cargo anyway upon a english ship hoping to prevent its being taken by "raiders" --who because spain's navy was weak at the time might risk a attack a on spanish ship---but would think twice before attacking a english ship and bring both the english and spanish navy down on them---both the ENGLISH ship and SPANISH cargo was lost--the govt of spain lost its "cargo" plain and simple---if found in international waters ---in the worst case the english ship would be under the british salvage laws--normally 75% to the salvagers and 25% to england---spain would have to "address its lost to the carrier that it hired to transport its cargo"---the shipping company (good luck--their most likely long out of bussiness) or possibly the govt of england and maybe they MIGHT at best get the 25% that normally goes to the english govt from england in the process--- however it is doubtful that england would "roll over" and give it up to spain because spain knew and "accepted" the risk at the time of shipment--- think of it like this if you mailed something valuible today in america and got no "insurance" to cover it and it was lost in the "mail"--tough luck for you the post office would say --never mind that you "hired" them by paying the shipping cost to "deliver" it safely--you knew the risk that it could be lost and "accepted" the risk at the time when you "shipped" it ---this whole thing is based on my idea that the wreck was the merchant royal and was carrying the spanish payroll and that it was "reported lost" in what would be "international waters" today ---of course if the ship was another wreck or was in the territorial waters of either spain or england or any other country this whole thing is moot------I base my "guessing" on the amount of money found and the general area that the wreck was reported to be found in---not too many "mega wrecks" out there---they are few and far between===Ivan P.S.---spanish coins in and of themselves do not make the wreck spanish ---because spanish coins were the "euro" of its day everyone in europe traded with and used them for money---and they were a widely used by all---however that said ----if the find is mainly spanish coins and of the "correct" time frame---such a large shipment of spanish money would lean towards --the royal merchant---since it was one of the few "mega money" ships lost in that time frame in the general area

 

[Trez]

Not sure if this has been asked or if anyone would actually know, but what type of coinage was found? Mints varieties = Mexico, Potosi, Lima etc.? form of coinage- were they cobs? denominations, dates? etc...

If anyone knows...Thanks

Trez

 

[jeff k]

Trez... That info has not been released, so only the Shadow knows.

 

[G.I.B.]

Here is some research:
Fray Marcos de Niza

A Relation . . . Touching His Discovery of the Kingdom of. . . Cíbola (ca.. 1535)

[Father de Niza and many other Spaniards were searching for legendary cities of Gold they believed to exist in Mexico and the Southwest. Father de Niza with two chiefs and interpreters, come to the city of Cíbola, a large Aztec city which he has been seeking]:

It appears to be a very beautiful city, the best that I have seen in these parts; the houses are of the type that the Indians described to me, all of stone with their storeys and terraces, as it appeared to me from a hill whence I could see it. The town is bigger than the city of Mexico [a clear exaggeration by Father de Niza]. . . . When I said to the chiefs who were with me how beautiful Cíbola appeared to me, they told me it was the least of the seven cities, and that Totonteac is much bi gger and better than all the seven, and that it has so many houses and people that there is no end to it. Viewing the situation of the city, it occurred to me to call that country the new kingdom of St. Francis, and there, with the aid of the Indians, I made a heap of stones and on top of it I placed a small, slender cross. . . [and] declared that I placed that cross and landmark in the name of Don Antonio de Mendoza, viceroy and governor of New Spain for our Emperor, our Lord, in sign of possession. . . that I took possession there of all the seven cities and of the kingdoms of Totonteac and Acus and Marata. . . .

 

[hmmm]

ANY ONE HEARD ANY NEWS LATLEY?
I read that it could be the santa margarita, sister ship to the atocha.

 

[Amona]

ANY ONE HEARD ANY NEWS LATLEY?
I read that it could be the santa margarita, sister ship to the atocha.

Hmmm
I hear so many versions about where coming from the coins ( H.M.Sussex, Black S.,..etc)

Don't be suprise if some day Odssey say the $500M coins were found where is the Titanic.!!!

or maybe "The Royal Caribbean"

Amona

 

[AA23]

hasn't the Santa Margarita been found already?

 

[stevemc]

Different treasure find. A couple weeks ago a salvage crew found several gold bars, a gold chain, a ring and a box for jewelry. It was in the area of the Margarita, the Atochas same fleet. I think I got that right.

 

[Salvor6]

All this wild speculation about OMR's find is hilarious! I just had a meeting with officials from OMR. Kathlean Salvant, Ellen Garth and Director of Archaeology John Oppermann were at the West State Archaeological Society meeting in Tampa last night. They gave a great presentation and countered all the nasty rumors floating around. The wreck they found is the "Merchant Royal," not the Titanic! Here is a picture of me at the meeting. John Opperman is speaking behind me.