Spain is now in the treasure business!

MORE AND BEYOND OSSY said:
Thank you Claudio, It's hard to argue the facts, but I'm sure somebody will. Did I miss read the report
about Spain not giving out any more Information about ship wrecks, that can only mean the archives
of Seville ? can you advise.
Cheers, Ossy
Click to expand...

Right now I'm in the archive of Indies, Seville !!!!!!! So ............
 

Also, I investigate in this archive from 1981 because I have always used "legally" the information. If there are contrary opinions and legal problems, I will demonstrate my honesty and legality and all the culprits will pay.
 

MORE AND BEYOND OSSY said:
Philvis what are you on about? why don't you stop trying to belittle Spain and argue about facts " I guarantee you that Odyssey
will put out 10x more archaeological/ historical data than the Spanish navy ever will" they have a lot of catching up to do, ever
hear about the archives of Seville? Your history is a drop in the ocean compaired with Spain.
The main point here is that they are SPANISH SHIP WRECKS not American, go find your own.
I enjoy sabre15 posts, he does it with tongue in cheek, Philvis " my wife is Peruvian, does she want revenge, the Spanish
also were controlled by many nations( Celts, Visigoths, Romans, moores ) get on with it we have!!
Ossy
Click to expand...

Sorry if I appeared to be on about anything. I wasn't stating Spain didn't have historical data. I was talking about the actual data from the shipwreck itself. Odyssey would be able to get more data from the shipwreck than the Spanish navy. As per mentioning my wife was Peruvian, that context was merely attempting to show that it is not just a pro-American thing for me like some folks are trying to take it...that American companies are plundering the world's shipwrecks. She personally could care a less about the treasure.

I am not going to argue I am right and you are wrong because it is like arguing politics. Everyone has their views. I just wanted to defend Odyssey because they were being thrashed to no end. Archaeologically, I find their methods more than adequate. Obviously they are not going to release data right away, especially if the "treasure" is now being contested. As I stated before, I am not anti-Spain, but it doesn't mean I have to like their methods when it comes to them coming out of the wood works to make their claims on treasure ships from long ago, just as you obvioulsy do not like Odyssey's methods.
 

Mike... Sorry you feel that way about Greg. Maybe if you ever get to meet him in person you might have a different opinion. As far as their technology is concerned, I can only say this. I heard that when they went to a known wreck site with many cannon several years ago, their SS Sonar showed nothing. I can only assume that they somehow tweaked their equipment, and are now getting positive results. Maybe they changed the software program, or a combination of software and hardware tweaks, but I'm not sure. I think this is what Greg was referring to when he said it was their "secret recipe."

I don't agree that the BS recovery was in any way illegal. That's what we have Admiralty Courts for. Don't forget Odyssey is a public company, and they have to protect their stockholders. I think what they did was in the best interest of their stockholders. If the judge should rule in favor of Spain, and acknowledge he has no jurisdiction, then Odyssey will retain possession of the artifacts. Spain will then have to sue in another venue.
 

Sabre,
I can show you tons of historical documents to demonstrate that Spain attempted the recovery of its technically recoverable shipwrecks in XVI, XVII, XVIII and XIX centuries in many seas of the world. When losing the colonies these intents stopped, but there were hundreds of proposals and only the technical problems impeded the recoveries.
[/quote]

If they were only technical problems, then why stop as technology has gotten only better? I believe they stopped and gave up their claims. When you break down on the side of the road and do not recover your vehicle in a timely manner, the towing company can file rights and eventually get the vehicle re-titled. Unless you pay towing fees and storage. I know this is not exactly the same but it sure is close as any other example.
 

When you break it all down to its simplest form, it comes out to this: common sense.

These vessels were lost hundreds of years ago. The owners either couldn't or didn't look for them or solicit others to look for them or were unsuccessful in finding them. Hundreds of years and generations passed. The ships were abandoned, pure and simple. And the person or company that eventually finds them should be allowed to retain them.

http://www.sptimes.com/2007/06/03/Opinion/Finders__keepers_for_.shtml
 

mariner said:
SD1733:

If only there was some relation between the law and common sense.

Mariner
Click to expand...

I concur wholeheartedly! :thumbsup:
 

sabre15 said:
Sabre,
I can show you tons of historical documents to demonstrate that Spain attempted the recovery of its technically recoverable shipwrecks in XVI, XVII, XVIII and XIX centuries in many seas of the world. When losing the colonies these intents stopped, but there were hundreds of proposals and only the technical problems impeded the recoveries.
Click to expand...

If they were only technical problems, then why stop as technology has gotten only better? I believe they stopped and gave up their claims. When you break down on the side of the road and do not recover your vehicle in a timely manner, the towing company can file rights and eventually get the vehicle re-titled. Unless you pay towing fees and storage. I know this is not exactly the same but it sure is close as any other example.[/quote]

Sabre,
the matter Sea Hunt JUNO/GALGA was the detonator so that the things changed for the treasures hunters. It was the Supreme Court in Washington that gave the reason to Spain. I participated in the management for the signature of an agreement between Sea Hunt and Spain and it was the National Park Service that didn't allow to recover. In other words, the wrongs came from the other side of the Atlantic Ocean.
The national laws and the international are to be applied and everything works according to them. Other opinions are irrelevant and the judges who decide and the lawyers who win millions.
 

spain's going after wrecks -- the us govt is going after wrecks --- ( good ole govts once again "squeezing" areas that were once --"international waters" grabbing up everything sounds like the 1500's again that ocean is MINE)-- there once was a time and place for bold salvage men who worked hard and risked much to find wrecks to bring wealth to their families * -- the days of "private bussiness" is now endangered * --the private sector should sue to "prevent" these govt owned tax payor funded grubbers from harvesting non govermental ship wrecks * spain can harvest (spain govt war shipwrecks) us can harvest (us govt war shipwrecks) --- but merchant class wrecks that full under general "salvage rules" are private sector work .---- cab drivers wouldn't want or allow the govt to suddenly put--- govt employed tax payor funded cab drivers in every city to compete against them
 

MORE AND BEYOND OSSY said:
Voldbjerg said:
MORE AND BEYOND OSSY said:
.. Your history is a drop in the ocean compaired with Spain...
Click to expand...
Unfortunately the US own the future :wink:
Click to expand...
Look whats happen to the worlds economy, and who made it crash :icon_scratch:
Ossy
Click to expand...

Ossy your right the United States is at the front of the economic mess, thanks Mr Clinton and all the stupid people that signed contracts for houses they can't afford(more on that in a moment). But if the United States wasn't the largest consumer of almost everything that can be bought most countries and more than likely ours wouldn't have most likely not enjoyed the economic good times of the past. In economics everything has to balance, you can't take the ride up forever. And the world could have limited their personal impact by not relying on the United States for its economic well being (Read here: personal responsibility and not selling so much of its gross domestic product to one place). Now to the stupid people buying homes that could not afford. What ever happend to the idea that if you don't have the money for something then you don't get to have it? And if you didn't have the money for it and still wanted it you went out and worked for it? Novel concept. I think it was called Living within your means. News flash you are not entitled to ANYTHING. You also do not have the RIGHT to own a nice home or anyhome for that matter. And for the bottom 40 percent of this country we a socialist society, they are just dragging the rest of us if them. Sorry of the rant....but I sure do feel better now.
 

sabre15 said:
Sabre,
I can show you tons of historical documents to demonstrate that Spain attempted the recovery of its technically recoverable shipwrecks in XVI, XVII, XVIII and XIX centuries in many seas of the world. When losing the colonies these intents stopped, but there were hundreds of proposals and only the technical problems impeded the recoveries.
Click to expand...

If they were only technical problems, then why stop as technology has gotten only better? I believe they stopped and gave up their claims. When you break down on the side of the road and do not recover your vehicle in a timely manner, the towing company can file rights and eventually get the vehicle re-titled. Unless you pay towing fees and storage. I know this is not exactly the same but it sure is close as any other example.
[/quote]
I agree with you Jamie, Spain should have never let get to this! I have always said they should get off their back side and protect
their ship wrecks." out of site and out of mind" they have taken a major interest now, why, we have Odyssey to thank ,and I mean
that, They know that Odyssey want to go back and search around the straights, in particular for a Spanish galleon that has a lot of gold.
As I said in a previous post, the Mercedes is Spains wake up call. they have for too long been asleep :sunny:
Ossy
 

You have to get over putting the blame on Odyssey though, it was and is dereliction of duty by the Spanish Government. Mel Fisher came along way before Oddysey, just because we are talking about a different area on the map still does not solve the problem. As I stated earlier, if you leave your broken down car on the side of the road...... this holds true to the core of all admirality claims. If it were American with American lives lost, yes I can see a problem, but we are a younger country and luckily have not had to cross that road yet. Unlike Spain, your empire has been around for a long time and failed to slavage their ships and thus left them to be salvaged by someone else. if Spain was truly salvaging these vessels, why hasn't a Navy ship been parked over each one for the last 400 years? When Mel found his, he bought a big clunker minus the engines and moored it over the Atocha!
 

:thumbsup: To you sabre. You are right on the money. Spain wasn't interested until they saw there was money to be found/made. They probably have plenty of sights to hunt now, since they stole the data from Odyssey's computers. They are trying to get part of prize without doing the work upfront. When are they going to sue Mel Fisher?
 

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