Spain is now in the treasure business!

[4theMoney]

The US govt....NOAA is trying to do the same thing. I don't really agree, as, the American way is to work with private enterprise not to compete against. I really don't care what Spain does but I hate to see the US slide into socialism and hate seeing our civil liberties reduced......I think Ben Franklin had a quote about that one.
As far as ODYSSEY goes, I am not a fan....BUT...Good for them. A private enterprise doing what a private enterprise should do. If Spain had fostered such desire to succeed in a private Spanish company then this forum would be dramatically different. Like I said, I don't care what Spain does, but I really hope the USA never turns into a Spain.....Ossy, don't take this comment as an insult. Just as you prefer your govt to handle the salvage and treasure buisness, I prefer that mine does not...

 

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[FISHEYE]

So now when spain finds a shipwreck full of treasure.we can now say it belongs to us and take them to court just like they do to everyone else that thought they found a spanish wreck.i think one of my great great great great grandfathers was spanish.let them do all the work finding wrecks.

 

[mariner]

Ossy,

I don't think that Spain or Andalucia (?) has any right to prevent Odyssey from recovering the Sussex. Odyssey reached an agreement with Britain, who owns the wreck, and it would be hypocritical of Spain to oppose this recovery while insisting on identical rights in other instances. In fact, I don't think Spain does oppose the recovery. I think it is Andalucia, which is like Florida opposing a recovery that the US Government and the foreign state owner have already agreed on.

Incidentally, Philvis, why would Spain be envious of Odyssey recovering a British ship?

Mariner

 

[MORE AND BEYOND OSSY]

So now when Spain finds a shipwreck full of treasure.we can now say it belongs to us and take them to court just like they do to everyone else that thought they found a Spanish wreck.i think one of my great great great great grandfathers was Spanish.let them do all the work finding wrecks.

FISHEYE if it's a US ship go for it, but if it's Spanish what are you claiming
If your great great .... grandparents were Spanish and had some stake in the ship put a claim in, I know I will if my ancestors had any
interests in the wreck, no problem there mate.
Most here have criticized Spain for not caring and salvaging their wrecks and now that Spain are taking action you all scream
like little girls
Mariner your right about the Sussex and I'm sure Spain don't have any interest, they do not trust Odyssey. look what happen
last time after Spain let them look around, if it happen this time they would have a navy war ship parked next to them.
Ossy

 

[rgecy]

Now now! What I am saying is the most all of the ones here who have anything negative to say all have a Spanish background.

I am glad Spain has taken the initiative to go after these wrecks. Again, I think it will lead the way to a better understanding of the money involved to explore, document, and salvage these wrecks!

I am also waiting to see if they will own up to the environmental disasters that they have caused in other countries with the mercury contamination that some of their wrecks have caused from sinking. My bet is, they will avoid these wrecks at all cost and distance themselves from the environmental and ecological nightmares they caused hundreds of years ago.

Robert

 

[jeff k]

Ossy,

I don't think that Spain or Andalucia (?) has any right to prevent Odyssey from recovering the Sussex. Odyssey reached an agreement with Britain, who owns the wreck, and it would be hypocritical of Spain to oppose this recovery while insisting on identical rights in other instances. In fact, I don't think Spain does oppose the recovery. I think it is Andalucia, which is like Florida opposing a recovery that the US Government and the foreign state owner have already agreed on.

Incidentally, Philvis, why would Spain be envious of Odyssey recovering a British ship?

Mariner

Mariner... So what's new. Spain wants Gibraltar back, but at the same time they believe it's alright to hold two enclaves in Morocco.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/2131636.stm

 

[Vox veritas]

Gentlemen, it is evident that the passions and the personal interests (shareholders) muddle the view and don't allow to distinguish the reality from the fantasy.
There are many questions without answers and while these answers are not known you cannot emit a partial and unanimous opinion.

 

[MORE AND BEYOND OSSY]

Now now! What I am saying is the most all of the ones here who have anything negative to say all have a Spanish background.

I am glad Spain has taken the initiative to go after these wrecks. Again, I think it will lead the way to a better understanding of the money involved to explore, document, and salvage these wrecks!

I am also waiting to see if they will own up to the environmental disasters that they have caused in other countries with the mercury contamination that some of their wrecks have caused from sinking. My bet is, they will avoid these wrecks at all cost and distance themselves from the environmental and ecological nightmares they caused hundreds of years ago.

Robert

Thanks Robert, for your comments, with Environmental disasters you need to look in your back yard first. What did the mighty US
do with its left over chemicals from WW11, lets see know, that's right dump them all over the worlds oceans in metal containers
and the poor people in Vietnam sprayed with agent orange, they are still paying the price.
Hundreds of years ago the Spanish had no idea on what mercury did, whats the US excuse.
Ossy

 

[Vox veritas]

Ossy,

I don't think that Spain or Andalucia (?) has any right to prevent Odyssey from recovering the Sussex. Odyssey reached an agreement with Britain, who owns the wreck, and it would be hypocritical of Spain to oppose this recovery while insisting on identical rights in other instances. In fact, I don't think Spain does oppose the recovery. I think it is Andalucia, which is like Florida opposing a recovery that the US Government and the foreign state owner have already agreed on.

Incidentally, Philvis, why would Spain be envious of Odyssey recovering a British ship?

Mariner

Mariner... So what's new. Spain wants Gibraltar back, but at the same time they believe it's alright to hold two enclaves in Morocco.http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/2131636.stm

In honor to the truth there is another reason of possible controversy: Olivencia, Portuguese city that was never returned and now it is Spanish. But all this doesn't have an end. In the same way Rome could claim its colonies and Greece too, etc. etc.

 

[rgecy]

I am not a share holder and never have been. My view is neither muddled or distorted.

 

[Vox veritas]

I am not a share holder and never have been. My view is neither muddled or distorted.

OK, but it follows many questions without answers and while these answers are not known you cannot emit a partial and unanimous opinion.

 

[MORE AND BEYOND OSSY]

Robert you mentioned the only ones here with Spanish background have only negatives things to say?
Negative in what way? defending Spain and its interest?
You would defend the US and I would not criticize you for it, could it be that the treasure hunting community fear loosing
control, just a question?
I have lost count on the times I have read " Spain don't care about their wrecks they only claim when you find treasure"
Well you won't have to worried about it any more, they will be doing the searching.
Cheers, Ossy

 

[jeff k]

I am a shareholder, and have been for 6 years. My view is neither muddled or distorted. :P

 

[MORE AND BEYOND OSSY]

Ossy,

I don't think that Spain or Andalusia (?) has any right to prevent Odyssey from recovering the Sussex. Odyssey reached an agreement with Britain, who owns the wreck, and it would be hypocritical of Spain to oppose this recovery while insisting on identical rights in other instances. In fact, I don't think Spain does oppose the recovery. I think it is Andalusia, which is like Florida opposing a recovery that the US Government and the foreign state owner have already agreed on.

Incidentally, Philvis, why would Spain be envious of Odyssey recovering a British ship?

Mariner

Mariner... So what's new. Spain wants Gibraltar back, but at the same time they believe it's alright to hold two enclaves in Morocco.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/2131636.stm

What about England retaking the Falkland Island from Argentina with US help??
Ossy

 

[sabre15]

The biggest problem here that I see (other than some of my posts being taken down by the moderator, Ossy did you have anything to do with that?) is that spain is 400 years late when they have had all the information at their fingertips. US firms have been doing this for over 40 years and until recently it only has been a problem to Spain. Why not over the 400 years has Spain not looked and recovered their vessels? Why not over 400 years have they just said these are ours nobody touch them and we will act accordingly if we come across properties of other Governments. Nobody is right here, its just like politics, socialism isn't right but neither is capitalism. I personally believe and it has proven itself over time that capitalism is far superior to that of Socialism or communisom but, nothing is perfect. I wish Spain and other countries could come to an agreement and take the greed factor out of it. By greed i mean, governments are interested in wealth, its the archaeologist/scientist that are pursuing a heritage type argument. Anyone that knows a politician knows that all they are concerned with is power and wealth, that goes for a democracy or a communist. As a "treasure hunter" community we need to pull together and work together to get our governments to A. work with us and not against us and B. to work amongst ourselves to escalate/further our cause. We need to find out here if we are a community of historic archaeologic diehards or treasure hunters or do we want to walk that fine line of both. I personally think we cannot walk that line and need to choose a side. Unless we are given an empty slate to control our destiny, historic significance will always play a part.

Sorry for going on and on

 

[Philvis]

My argument is not hypocritical. I am just pointing out the fact that Spain is trying to play the high and might "heritage" card, when honestly they have no right to do so when it comes to their treasure ships. If a ship was carrying the equivilant of $500 million dollars, plain and simple, it was a treasure ship. And by the way, my wife is Peruvian. The first thing I told her when I found out it was Reales minted in Lima, was that Peru should stake their claim. Spain is playing a dangerous game now. If Peru is granted all or partial rights to the "treasure" it will not only be a victory for Peru, but also for Odyssey. I can guarantee you that short of the treasure consisting of Inca/Chimu/Moche artifacts (which is highly unlikely because Spain melted them down), Peru will be more than happy to get a cut of the treasure. If it were in their territorial waters, they obviously would want more. Spain is not upset because Odyssey salvaged that ship, they are upset that Odyssey made off with $500 million. It is only about money. Let Spain's new "treasure task force" go head to head with Odyssey's techniques and I guarantee you that Odyssey will put out 10x more archaeological/historical data than the Spanish navy ever will.

As for Spain being envious of Odyssey salvaging the Sussex, it is in their disputed territorial waters of Gibralter, that is why. I have nothing against Spain. I just think it is always very convenient when a company spends tons of money to locate these lost wrecks and when they do, suddenly the country of origin of these ships become patriots and essentially demand the "spoils". I am a firm believer that the technology is advanced enough to now excavate and salvage wrecks getting optimal data at the same time. If Odyssey was ripping through these wrecks pulling out gold/silver/etc., without archaeological regards, I wouldn't be supportive. Like I said before, show me another outfit that can do what they do in the scientific way they do it.

 

[sabre15]

Hey Fisheye, for beginners, lets allow Spain to come over here and see if they can retrieve all these nickles over on I95. Betcha they can't. I posted a picture of their boat and ROV on here last night, you should of seen this beauty!

 

[MORE AND BEYOND OSSY]

Jamie my friend, I had nothing do do with the posts, I was actually enjoying you poking fun at Spain as you can
see by today's post a few people have a stick or two up their back side.
I was looking forward to taking that aircraft carrier for a run
I think once you started poking fun at the US the moderator removed them, I'm guessing.
It would be nice if we could work together the world would be a better place
Philvis what are you on about? why don't you stop trying to belittle Spain and argue about facts " I guarantee you that Odyssey
will put out 10x more archaeological/ historical data than the Spanish navy ever will" they have a lot of catching up to do, ever
hear about the archives of Seville? Your history is a drop in the ocean compaired with Spain.
The main point here is that they are SPANISH SHIP WRECKS not American, go find your own.
I enjoy sabre15 posts, he does it with tongue in cheek, Philvis " my wife is Peruvian, does she want revenge, the Spanish
also were controlled by many nations( Celts, Visigoths, Romans, moores ) get on with it we have!!
Ossy

 

[Cablava]

Jeff

I have been silent for as while.

Odyssey have done alot of PR and are producing some great TV stuff, but the facts are still the same. They hit and run, unforgivable............. It is not as though there are 500 companies scouring the oceans for treasure, or following them around to stake a claim on their targets ( its extremely difficult to find things even if you know the general location). In fact I think it is only Odyssey who are using the so called state of the art equipment to find these sonar images to be identified as wrecks. The latest published the HMS Victory. Of course the share holders are paying for it with the hope that one day they will turn a real profit.

Just so my view is neither muddled nor distorted, can you give me a list and specs of the state of the art equipment that OMEX are using just now, so I can compare with the latest developments in equipment I see in the market place just now and the last 10 Years. While an ROV of Zeus's capabilities is formidable it is hardly state of the art. The Odyssey Explorer is also hardly state of the art, I used a similar ship in the 80's in Denmark.

As for your own views on this subject of Odyssey, you are not an impartial observer but more a primed PR agent. But you do give some great references for us.

As I see it Odyssey have not improved from the alleged criminal action they took with the Black Swan, but they are doing their best to improve their company prospective around the world. Sadly Stemm still comes's across as a second hand car dealer on TV and does not inspire much confidence on the International stage, he is probably the biggest problem Odyssey has outside of Spain in their PR. I am sure he has the best interest of Odyssey at heart but it is a world market place he is dealing in not just Florida. ( if he wants to know why I view it this way my email is on my profile, I do not hide behind technology I am a real person who stands by my beliefs).


Hopefully the judge will give a fair and balance result, or pass it on to a higher court (European Court) if he does not think he can judge it fairly.

Regards

Mike

 

[Vox veritas]

The biggest problem here that I see (other than some of my posts being taken down by the moderator, Ossy did you have anything to do with that?) is that spain is 400 years late when they have had all the information at their fingertips. US firms have been doing this for over 40 years and until recently it only has been a problem to Spain. Why not over the 400 years has Spain not looked and recovered their vessels? Why not over 400 years have they just said these are ours nobody touch them and we will act accordingly if we come across properties of other Governments. Nobody is right here, its just like politics, socialism isn't right but neither is capitalism. I personally believe and it has proven itself over time that capitalism is far superior to that of Socialism or communisom but, nothing is perfect. I wish Spain and other countries could come to an agreement and take the greed factor out of it. By greed i mean, governments are interested in wealth, its the archaeologist/scientist that are pursuing a heritage type argument. Anyone that knows a politician knows that all they are concerned with is power and wealth, that goes for a democracy or a communist. As a "treasure hunter" community we need to pull together and work together to get our governments to A. work with us and not against us and B. to work amongst ourselves to escalate/further our cause. We need to find out here if we are a community of historic archaeologic diehards or treasure hunters or do we want to walk that fine line of both. I personally think we cannot walk that line and need to choose a side. Unless we are given an empty slate to control our destiny, historic significance will always play a part.

Sorry for going on and on

Sabre,
I can show you tons of historical documents to demonstrate that Spain attempted the recovery of its technically recoverable shipwrecks in XVI, XVII, XVIII and XIX centuries in many seas of the world. When losing the colonies these intents stopped, but there were hundreds of proposals and only the technical problems impeded the recoveries.