Spain is now in the treasure business!

piratediver

Sr. Member
Jun 29, 2006
264
6
newport, Rhode Island
Primary Interest:
All Treasure Hunting
Looks like Spain has decided to partner with her navy and search for and excavate wrecks in her waters.

ABC.es› Noticias de Actualidad› Cultura› Noticias de ArqueologíaNoticia vista 4874 veces
Lunes 9, febrero 2009 - Últ. actualización 21:43h

imprimir enviar por email rectificar Comentar 23 comentariosValoración:4/512345Gracias por votar
Zafarrancho arqueológico en España
Disminuir tamaño del textoAumentar tamaño del texto
Así funciona el sónar de barrido lateral. Ampliar el gráfico
«Un pedazo de 1702 congelado en el fango»

El «Reina Regente», víctima del temporal y la prisa
El crucero Reina Regente partió de Cádiz hacia Tánger el 9 de marzo de 1895 con una incómoda embajada marroquí que el Gobierno quería devolver cuanto antes a su territorio. Llegado a Tánger, no pudo entrar en puerto y fondeó. La legación, más algunos marineros, viajaron a tierra en un transbordador al día siguiente en medio de una mar cada vez más agitada. El capitán Francisco Sanz de Andino debió recibir una orden de regreso inmediato, puesto que partió en medio del aquel enorme temporal y dejando en tierra a algunos miembros de la tripulación. A tres millas de la costa se detuvo y desde tierra vieron cómo la dotación realizaba algunas operaciones en la popa, tal vez para reparar el timón o las hélices. Poco después desapareció en la tormenta, en medio de olas de más de 10 metros con 410 marineros a bordo.

JESÚS GARCÍA CALERO Domingo, 08-02-09
Los cazatesoros ya no son bienvenidos en España, ni siquiera de visita para facilitar información de antiguos naufragios. Después de la polémica por el presunto expolio de Odyssey en el Estrecho de Gibraltar, el Gobierno ha puesto en marcha un plan para que los barcos de la Armada empiecen a buscar y proteger pecios históricos desde esta misma primavera, según ha podido saber ABC de fuentes de toda solvencia en el Ministerio de Defensa. Al parecer, la ministra Carme Chacón ultima estos días un convenio con el Ministerio de Cultura, abierto a la colaboración de las Comunidades Autónomas, para poner a disposición del Plan Nacional de Arqueología Subacuática dos tipos de buques de la Armada Española, un cazaminas de la clase Segura y el buque de rescate y buceo Neptuno.
La primera información sobre los planes del Gobierno saltó a la luz durante la toma de posesión del nuevo director general de Relaciones Institucionales de Defensa, Santos Castro, el pasado 12 de enero. Aquel día, la ministra Chacón le encomendó como prioridad la participación de la Armada en la preservación de nuestro Patrimonio sumergido. Dicho y hecho. Un mes después, la colaboración de la Armada ya está definida por el AJEMA, y el convenio con el Ministerio de Cultura, por valor de 250.000 euros, es inminente.
El plan no puede ser más ambicioso, puesto que no se limita a una actuación puntual, sino que asegura la continuidad de esta colaboración por medio de varias iniciativas. Para empezar, se han elegido dos pecios de gran importancia cuya localización y excavación será el primer objetivo. Se trata del Reina Regente, en aguas de la Bahía de Cádiz, y el Santo Cristo del Maracaibo, un galeón hundido al sur de las Islas Cíes.
El primero es un barco de especial valor para la Armada, un crucero de primera clase que naufragó, dejando numeroso misterios, en medio de un temporal con 412 marinos a bordo cuando regresaba de su última misión en Tánger, el 9 de marzo de 1895. El segundo es un galeón capturado en la batalla de Rande de 1702 y hundido mientras era remolcado a Inglaterra. Será el primer buque de la flota americana de la plata excavado con criterios arqueológicos.
Aún falta por definir el orden y los detalles de esta ambiciosa intervención, pero en las conversaciones preliminares que han dado lugar al plan ha quedado patente la idoneidad de comenzar los trabajos en la Bahía de Cádiz, dejando el galeón para una segunda fase. La pérdida de ese buque fue muy gravosa para la Armada y han sido muchos los esfuerzos dedicados hasta ahora para tratar de encontrar sus restos.
Con estas primeras actuaciones se ha terminado la tan criticada incuria de la Administración con el Patrimonio subacuático, un debate que arreció y llegó al Parlamento en la legislatura pasada, al tiempo que la polémica por el presunto expolio de Odyssey. Ya entonces se perfilaba como única opción la participación de la Armada en estas misiones llamadas a hacer historia, nuestra historia, y a impedir que los cazatesoros la deshagan. Por ello, Defensa, Cultura y las autoridades de Patrimonio de Galicia y Andalucía unirán sus esfuerzos para que un equipo formado por los arqueólogos y científicos más el personal técnico y especialistas de la Armada inauguren esta nueva era de conocimiento de nuestra memoria naval. También inminente será la organización de unas jornadas de defensa del Patrimonio a celebrar en Cádiz, que reunirá a expertos para abordar los protocolos de trabajo.
Pero eso no es todo. España no conoce con detalle los lugares donde yace su Patrimonio sumergido, y el siguiente paso, para el que se precisará la colaboración de todas las Autonomías marítimas, será el levantamiento de la carta arqueológica completa y compatible de las aguas de soberanía española. Es decir, 24 millas desde la costa. Una vez más el papel de la Armada será insustituible. Es cierto que en algunas Autonomías ya se ha avanzado en este terreno, pero ahora se trata de conjuntar esfuerzos y lograr la máxima protección de los yacimientos que existen en nuestras aguas.
Los buques cazaminas y el Neptuno llevan a bordo la tecnología necesaria para la exploración del fondo marino y sus dotaciones son expertas en ese trabajo. Los cazaminas cuentan con sónares de barrido lateral y sondas multihaz, ROV y otros asombrosos equipos de detección. Además, el Neptuno cuenta con los medios de buceo más sofisticados.
En conjunto, ambas dotaciones, codo con codo con la sociedad civil, pondrán en marcha un proyecto cuya lógica ambición, más que confesable, será la construcción de un barco que reúna las últimas tecnologías, equipos y medios para estos cometidos, un buque cuyo coste podría alcanzar —según un calculo que ya se ha hecho— más de cuarenta millones de euros, y al que todos miran como un horizonte asequible en el futuro. Sería una oportunidad de renovar los equipos existentes y acceder a otros nuevos. Hay más buques de utilización conjunta por la Armada y los científicos españoles cuyo rumbo se trata de seguir con esta idea.
Entre tanto, queda mucho trabajo por hacer, pero la mejor noticia es ésa, que el proyecto que va a proteger el Patrimonio que los cazatesoros pusieron hace casi dos años en jaque ya está en marcha y va a cambiar la faz de la arqueología subacuática en nuestro país, dando además un ejemplo de colaboración entre instituciones. No se puede pedir más.


Pirate diver
 

ABC.es> News> Culture> News ArqueologíaNoticia view 4874 times
Monday, 9 February 2009 - Last. Update 21:43 h

The 'Queen Regent, a victim of the storm and the rush
The cruiser Reina Regente left Tangier to Cadiz on March 9, 1895 with an uncomfortable Moroccan embassy that the government wanted to return sooner to their territory. At Tangier, he could not come into port and anchored. The legation, plus some sailors, went ashore on a ferry the next day in an increasingly turbulent sea. Captain Francisco Sanz de Andino had received an order for immediate return, as they departed in the midst of this huge temporary ground and leaving some members of the crew. At three miles from the coast and stopped ground saw the strength to do some operations in the stern, perhaps to repair the rudder or the propellers. Disappeared shortly after the storm, amid waves over 10 meters with 410 sailors on board.

CALERO GARCÍA JESÚS Sunday, 08-02-09
The cazatesoros are no longer welcome in Spain, or even visit for information on ancient shipwrecks. After the controversy over the alleged exploitation of Odyssey in the Strait of Gibraltar, the Government has launched a plan for the Navy vessels begin to search for and protect historic shipwrecks from this spring, according to ABC has learned from sources solvency of the entire Ministry of Defense. Apparently, the minister Carme Chacon last few days an agreement with the Ministry of Culture, opened to the collaboration of the Autonomous Communities, to make available to the National Plan of Archeology two types of vessels of the Spanish Armada, one of the cazaminas Segura class and diving and salvage ship Neptune.

The first information about the Government's plans jumped to light during the inauguration of the new general manager of Institutional Relations of Defense, Santos Castro, on January 12. That day, the minister Chacón him as a priority of the Navy's participation in the preservation of our underwater heritage. Said and done. A month later, the collaboration of the Navy is already defined by the AJEMA, and the agreement with the Ministry of Culture, amounting to 250,000 euros, is imminent.

The plan could not be more ambitious, since it is not limited to a punctual action, but also ensures the continuity of this partnership through various initiatives. To begin, have chosen two major wrecks whose location and excavation will be the first target. It is the Queen Regent, in the waters of the Bay of Cadiz, and the Holy Christ of Maracaibo, a galleon that sank south of the Cies Islands.

The first boat is a special value to the Navy, a first-class cruiser which sank, leaving many mysteries in the midst of a storm with 412 sailors on board while returning from his last mission in Tangiers, on March 9, 1895. The second is a galleon captured at the battle of Rande 1702 and sunk while being towed to England. It will be the first ship of the fleet of American silver excavated archaeological criteria.

Yet to define the order and the details of this ambitious intervention, but in preliminary talks that led to the plan has been made clear the appropriateness of initiating work in the Bay of Cadiz, leaving the galleon for a second phase. The loss of that ship was very troublesome for the Navy and many efforts have been devoted so far to find his remains.

With these initial actions have been completed the much-criticized government neglect of the Underwater Heritage, a debate that Arreciado and came to Parliament in the last legislature, while the controversy over the alleged exploitation of Odyssey. And then emerged as the sole option of the Navy's participation in these missions call to make history, our history, and ensure that the cazatesoros away. Therefore, Defense, Culture and the Heritage of Galicia and Andalusia will join efforts for a team of archaeologists and scientific personnel and technical specialists from the Navy inaugurate this new era of knowledge of our naval memory. Also imminent is organizing a conference of defense Heritage held in Cadiz, which will bring together experts to address the protocols work.

But that's not all. Spain does not know in detail where their heritage lies submerged, and the next step, which will require the collaboration of all Autonomies shipping will be lifting the full letter archaeological and water compatible Spanish sovereignty. Ie, 24 miles from the coast. Once again the role of the Navy will be irreplaceable. It is true that in some Autonomies already advanced in this area, but now is to combine efforts and maximize the protection of deposits that exist in our waters.

Ships cazaminas and Neptune on board the technology needed for exploration of the seabed and their endowments are experts in this work. The cazaminas with side-scan sonar and multibeam sensors, ROV and other equipment for detecting amazing. In addition, Neptune has the most sophisticated diving.

Together, the two envelopes, hand in hand with civil society, will launch an ambitious project whose logic, rather than confess, is the construction of a boat that meets the latest technology, equipment and means for these tasks, a vessel whose cost could achieve, according to a calculation has already been done, over forty million, and we all look like an affordable horizon in the future. It would be an opportunity to renew existing equipment and access to new ones. There is more sharing of vessels by the Navy and Spanish scientists whose direction is to continue with this idea.

Meanwhile, much work remains to be done, but the best news is that that the project will protect the heritage that cazatesoros almost two years ago put in check is now in place and will change the face of underwater archeology in our country, giving a further example of collaboration between institutions. Can not ask for more.
 

Great news, It's about time Spain got of it's back side, I know most of the treasure hunting community won't be
happy, But It had to happen, Odyssey were holding all the cards,
Ossy
 

Cheers Amona :thumbsup:
It also reads, treasure hunters are no longer welcome in Spain or even to visit for information on ancient shipwrecks and
No more searching for information in the Archives of Seville !
Odyssey may have pushed to far.
Ossy
 

No more searching for information in the Archives of Seville !

That's easy enough to get around.
 

Since the world economy is in the crapper.Spain is strapped for cash.I knew it would take something like this to wake them up.


They said they would find and protect thier shipwrecks.rofl.

Did you know that James Goold, the Washington-based lawyer for the Spanish Government has his own divers and a treasure ship?


This is really good news for all of us.Now spain cant claim that we are destroying wrecks and disturbing the dead.Since now they are doing it.
 

Poor odyseey :sad11: :sad5: :sad9: :sad7:
 

Attachments

  • Picture 094.gif
    Picture 094.gif
    9.9 KB · Views: 687
  • spain flag.JPG
    spain flag.JPG
    1.3 KB · Views: 667
FISHEYE said:
Did you know that James Goold, the Washington-based lawyer for the Spanish Government has his own divers and a treasure ship?

I doubt that this is true. I know Jim Goold, though not well, and what is true is that he has long been interested in the legal examination and recovery of shipwrecks. He was (and may still be) on the board of a non-profit organization that was actively encouraging the development of deep sea recovery technology. He is also the attorney for National Geographic. I met him a few years ago at I meeting I was having with National Geographic and he put me in touch with somebody who was developing appropriate technology for a deep-lying wreck that I was interested in recovering. Jim receives a lot of undeserved bad press because of his position as attorney for Spain, and is obviously unable to respond publicly to these personal attacks. His job is to represent his client's best interests, and he seems to do that quite well.

It doesn't surprise me that Spain is going to locate and document some of its wrecks, but I would be surprised if they were intending to recover any of the cargoes, in view of their support of the UNESCO convention. I know that the article implies this, but time will tell. Did I not read recently that the USA is planning a similar operation?

Mariner
 

Mostly sour grapes I figure. It happens to companies or persons that are leaders or pioneers or become successful. Just the ugly side of human nature I suppose.
 

Philvis said:
Why do some folks on here have so much hate towards Odyssey?

It all boils down to ignorance, and in some cases bigotry.
 

Why do some folks on here have so much hate towards Odyssey?

When you mess around at the magnitude that Odyseey did, you can expect all kind reactions including "hatred" and I don't think this is "ignorance" like Mr. Jeff say, I think he live a deep ignorance regarding Odyseey.To ask "why people hate Odyseey?" that is another ignorance.

Amona
 

Jeff K said:
Philvis said:
Why do some folks on here have so much hate towards Odyssey?

It all boils down to ignorance, and in some cases bigotry.

We will already know some truths. As Cervantes said: powerful gentleman Mister money !!
 

As an archaeologist, I think Odyssey is doing a bang up job. They are utilizing technology no archaeology institute I know of can reproduce for deep sea excavations. I say more power to them for reclaiming treasures that were already looted by Spain to begin with. Spain did its fair share of looting and pillaging. If their mariners couldn't get their "prizes" back, I say it should go to whoever can recover it. There is no difference in Odyssey recovering the ships' goods than Spain trying to salvage them after the initial wreck when they were in shallower waters. Good for Odyssey. I can't wait until they begin salvage of the Sussex. Spain will definitely be green with envy then.
 

Philvis said:
Why do some folks on here have so much hate towards Odyssey?
Philvis why do folks here hate Spain, And don't use the excuse of they killed and took which was not theirs, because all
European nations have done the same! even the Inca's and Aztecs use to wipe their own tribes out and sacrifice live
people to their gods. It was European disease that unknowingly wiped 95% of them out.
Odyssey tarnished themselves when they raided the Mercedes, and then made things worst by playing games
e.g ( the coins must have been throw over board when they got in trouble ) WHAT A JOKE !
What Ship??? NO, only cannons and other debris," we have no idea" but we must stress we are the world leader in
this field :icon_scratch:
Philvis its not hate, its more a lack of any trust.
 

Philvis said:
As an archaeologist, I think Odyssey is doing a bang up job. They are utilizing technology no archaeology institute I know of can reproduce for deep sea excavations. I say more power to them for reclaiming treasures that were already looted by Spain to begin with. Spain did its fair share of looting and pillaging. If their mariners couldn't get their "prizes" back, I say it should go to whoever can recover it. There is no difference in Odyssey recovering the ships' goods than Spain trying to salvage them after the initial wreck when they were in shallower waters. Good for Odyssey. I can't wait until they begin salvage of the Sussex. Spain will definitely be green with envy then.
Philvis your argument is very hypocritical " reclaiming treasures that were already looted by Spain" I must have misunderstood you,
so Odyssey is recovering them for Peru and giving them back less the salvage???
OR they are selling them for there profit :icon_scratch: which means if Spain stole them that means you are dealing with
STOLEN GOODS, you can't have it both ways, you either stand for one or the other. Archaeologist you say???
And watch the green eye monster you may be running a fever, Odyssey returning to the Sussex is not going to happen
there's more at stake than a ship wreck, Spain disputes the waters around Gibraltar and that's not going to change,
Odyssey will have to enter at their own risk.
Ossy
 

Thank you Philvis for your point of view. I think there are quite a few people who think Odyssey is doing a great job.

Philvis said:
Why do some folks on here have so much hate towards Odyssey?
The only guys crying out against Odyssey here all have some relation to Spain.
 

RGecy said:
Thank you Philvis for your point of view. I think there are quite a few people who think Odyssey is doing a great job.

Philvis said:
Why do some folks on here have so much hate towards Odyssey?
The only guys crying out against Odyssey here all have some relation to Spain.
Robert who's crying? we are celebrating the decision that Spain has made to finally go out and salvage it's ships
seems like to me by your response that maybe a few of you need a tissue box.
Lets look at the facts, Spanish ship wrecks that belong to Spain and now Spain want to retrieve their ships to safe guard their heritage :icon_scratch:
Odyssey a US company that wants to retrieve Spanish ships for their profit :icon_scratch:
very clear cut to me, who's crying???
Ossy
 

Top Member Reactions

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top