Solved! CW Era .41 Rimfire Round & A Tragic End

[steelheadwill]

Solved! CW Era .41 Rimfire Round & A Tragic End

Hello,
Dug this a while back, Interesting round, no markings apparent due to corrosion.
It's about 10.5mm X 24 mm length.
One ring on slug is visible.
Any info on date or manufacture is appreciated! Thanks & HH

 

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[creskol]

Re: Older Intact Pistol Round

Looks sorta like a .40 cal. Leets

 

[steelheadwill]

Re: Older Intact Pistol Round

Looks sorta like a .40 cal. Leets

Thanks Creskol,
A more careful measurement shows the slug a hair over .40,
without knowing any markings, I guess it would b hard to date this round.
I'll see if there's anything under that crust, no trace of a primer, likely a rimfire.

 

[creskol]

Re: Older Intact Pistol Round

Looks sorta like a .40 cal. Leets

Thanks Creskol,
A more careful measurement shows the slug a hair over .40,
without knowing any markings, I guess it would b hard to date this round.
I'll see if there's anything under that crust, no trace of a primer, likely a rimfire.

Could well be a .41 cal rimfire derringer round. Civil War era? Perhaps so!

 

[ivan salis]

Re: Older Intact Pistol Round

41 cal rimfire short round (blackpowder round most likely --pre smokeless powder -- large calibers / big bullets --were used to help with "knockdown" ability since blackpowder was a "slow" powder --- once hotter faster smokeless powder use became the norm --folks started using smaller cal - faster bullets --like 38 long and 38 special and such )

first made in 1863 (during the civil war) by the national arms company for its single shot derringer * --- in 1866 remington arms made its famous 2 shot 'over / under" type derringer design" in 41 rimfire

in 1876 a national arms 41 cal derringer belonging to custer was recovered from the little big horn battle site.

warning -- it still can be "live" even after all these years --carefully open and dump the powder out (do not pinch , squeeze or crimp the rim or backside area in any way!!! because its a rim fire --thats how it "fires"--normally a firing pin crushes the rim area causing it to "fire"--the whole rim area is "the primer"

 

[Red James Cash]

Re: Older Intact Pistol Round

Blackpowder tends to get touchy with age. Dont drop it If it goes off dont worry about the bullet, duck the shell casing.

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

Re: Older Intact Pistol Round

.41 Rimfire Short

Variants .41-100, .41 Short Derringer, .41 Rimfire, .41 Long
Specifications
Case type Rimfire, straight
Bullet diameter .405 in (10.3 mm)
Neck diameter .406 in (10.3 mm)
Base diameter .406 in (10.3 mm)
Rim diameter .468 in (11.9 mm)
Case length .467 in (11.9 mm)
Overall length .913 in (23.2 mm)
Primer type Rimfire

 

[audigger73]

Re: Older Intact Pistol Round

looks awful small to be 41 cal. must have big fingers

 

[steelheadwill]

Re: Older Intact Pistol Round

Thanks all !
From all your input I believe I have the .41 rimfire described.
All measurements are close to specs (factoring for encrustation)
It displays condition typical for mid 19th century finds from this site.
I have looked at some of the weapons that used this round
Works of art.
Green check here

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

Re: Solved! CW Era .41 Rimfire Round

Steelheadwill, you mentioned you were going to scrape of the concretion of the bottom of the cartridge-case. Did you get around to doing that? I'm asking because there may be a "headstamp" marking on the casing's base. A very similar .40 or .41 Derringer cartridge was on Ebay recently, which the seller claimed was civil war era, but the letter "U" headstamp (mark of the Union Manufacturing Co.) on the base proved it was a postwar-era cartridge.

The Thomas-&-Thomas "Handbook of Civil War Bullets & Cartridges" shows a .40-caliber derringer civil war cartridge made by Leet, which has two grooves encircling the lead bullet. Yours has only one groove, so it's not the Leet version.

Please let us know if your cartride has a headstamp marking.

 

[steelheadwill]

Re: Solved! CW Era .41 Rimfire Round

Steelheadwill, you mentioned you were going to scrape of the concretion of the bottom of the cartridge-case. Did you get around to doing that? I'm asking because there may be a "headstamp" marking on the casing's base. A very similar .40 or .41 Derringer cartridge was on Ebay recently, which the seller claimed was civil war era, but the letter "U" headstamp (mark of the Union Manufacturing Co.) on the base proved it was a postwar-era cartridge.

The Thomas-&-Thomas "Handbook of Civil War Bullets & Cartridges" shows a .40-caliber derringer civil war cartridge made by Leet, which has two grooves encircling the lead bullet. Yours has only one groove, so it's not the Leet version.

Please let us know if your cartride has a headstamp marking.

Hi CannonballGuy,
have just applied some aluminum jelly to the base, will post when I can remove some of this crust, hopefully it will soften it somewhat without getting into the brass. HH

 

[steelheadwill]

Re: Solved! CW Era .41 Rimfire Round & A Tragic End

Like the Doctors say,
Which do you want first, the good news, or the bad news ?
The good news of course!
The casing shows no sign of a 'P' stamp, CW Era
The bad news ?
As soon as I touched the base with the toothbrush, the casing crumbled to bits
Well, I still have a nice 2 ring slug, and a rimfire base without a 'P'
(Incidently, I came across a photo of a .38 long rimfire casing I dug that does have the 'P' stamp)

 

[ivan salis]

Re: Solved! CW Era .41 Rimfire Round & A Tragic End

peters -- rimfire 38 most likely