Shipwrecks with good stories

Colombiapictures said:
Thanks for the help.

Does anybody have any details about Jennings raid. Is the exact location of the salver camp that he attacked known?
There must be many other occurrences of pirate attacks connected to shipwrecks. I think I read some court cases mentioning it.
Talking about court. Were the salvaged good not divided and adjudicated by a judge?
Where could one find more information on that?
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You sure you aren't " treasurediver ", your posts sound a lot like his? Just curious.
 

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ropesfish said:
There are some threads on this forum that i would recommend:

http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/shipwrecks/142141-list-treasure-wrecks.html
This is/was a great list of book suggestions-it will not load for me this morning, perhaps it will for you: http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/s...ired-reading-maritime-treasure-salvage-2.html
Bahamas wrecks: http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/shipwrecks/106016-bahamas-list.html
There is a good book on wrecker captains by Dennis M Powers called "Taking the Sea" Amacom 2009.
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Thanks for the link. It is a great thread.
One thing I would like to mention. I took a marker pen and marked in nice pink color, every shipwreck that I knew had been found in modern times, in one of Harry Rieseberg's shipwreck lists. The result was amazing. Where did he get all this information from?
I think he mentions the Library of Congress or something like that.
 

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old man said:
You sure you aren't " treasurediver ", your posts sound a lot like his? Just curious.
Click to expand...

Maybe we learned the English language in the same school? People have often told me that my accent sounds just like Jaques Cousteau's. But then the Arabs say I sound like an Israeli. Or maybe I am schizophrenic and have many personalities?
Take your pick.

Not trying to be offensive, I don't mind your questions, just trying to be a bit humorous, a very difficult task.
 

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Columbia. Go to Atocha Golden crew on facebook. Lots of Pictures and stories. Also Mel Fisher Maritime Heritage site on Face book. Several slave ship stories, two in the Keys and one in the Bahamas. The Last slave ship to sink in the Bahamas is now a new exhibit at the National museum and finding living relatives of the crew, africans and wreckers who rescued everyone. Also a Pirate Slaver off Key Largo, an early exploration vessel that was heading to St Augustine and wrecked in the Bahamas. and two treasure wrecks. All have great stories.
 

It sounds like you are looking for complete story. One's that finished.

How about starting off with a good wreck that hasn't been investigated, is not complete?

Tell the story from the beginning, as it is happening. Start with the site, getting permits, doing the research, interviewing relatives- archives- the whole process.

Let it end up where it may.

I'm sick of reality shows with unpaid poorly orchestrated acting and an inherent inability to read a script so they don't have to pay any real talent.

I'd like to see the process, from start to finish. Present it to me as if I'm a semi-intelligent person.

The series, via hour long episodes, could introduce a new wreck this week and give it 1/3rd of the air time, then visit the second wreck with those folks for the second 1/3rd. The final 1/3rd could be wrapping up the original wreck from a month or two ago with the other folks.

It would keep the content fresh. We would see different faces, different wrecks during every hour. I might be more interested in one wreck than the other, so I'll sit through one, so I don't miss the others.

And, in the name of everything holy in, under, over, or on the sea- STOP replaying the last minute or two that was just on before the commercials. Just because a few commercials came on doesn't mean I've went totally stupid and forgot what happened 3 minutes ago. It's cheesy- makes me think you don't have enough content.

If you get stuck with one crew, one host, the same one or two people, you loose an entire audience who may not like that one person. Keep the people different for different wrecks. Let us learn something along the way- a vast majority of us consider that entertainment.
 

G.I.B. said:
It sounds like you are looking for complete story. One's that finished.

How about starting off with a good wreck that hasn't been investigated, is not complete?

Tell the story from the beginning, as it is happening. Start with the site, getting permits, doing the research, interviewing relatives- archives- the whole process.

Let it end up where it may.

I'm sick of reality shows with unpaid poorly orchestrated acting and an inherent inability to read a script so they don't have to pay any real talent.

I'd like to see the process, from start to finish. Present it to me as if I'm a semi-intelligent person.

The series, via hour long episodes, could introduce a new wreck this week and give it 1/3rd of the air time, then visit the second wreck with those folks for the second 1/3rd. The final 1/3rd could be wrapping up the original wreck from a month or two ago with the other folks.

It would keep the content fresh. We would see different faces, different wrecks during every hour. I might be more interested in one wreck than the other, so I'll sit through one, so I don't miss the others.

And, in the name of everything holy in, under, over, or on the sea- STOP replaying the last minute or two that was just on before the commercials. Just because a few commercials came on doesn't mean I've went totally stupid and forgot what happened 3 minutes ago. It's cheesy- makes me think you don't have enough content.

If you get stuck with one crew, one host, the same one or two people, you loose an entire audience who may not like that one person. Keep the people different for different wrecks. Let us learn something along the way- a vast majority of us consider that entertainment.
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G.I.B,
thank you for the opinion and advice.
Personally, I don't like "Reality" shows. I like good documentaries. Or even a dramatized documentary. What I really like is a well told story. In the end it may not matter what I like, because the decisions will not be mine.
When the question came up about a TV series about shipwrecks, I said I had a few shipwrecks with good stories, but that was not enough.
As you say, content. It needs a lot of content, for a whole series and other seasons more.
So, could I come up with enough content? I said I will try my best, find people who have good stories, interesting shipwrecks.
This is what I am trying to do and I am happy to say, thanks to the help of many, I have found people who have fantastic stories at hand. People who spent many years researching for these shipwreck stories and shipwrecks.
I can truly say that I found the owners of enough content for many seasons.

Is my job finished? It only just started. I still need to put a package together that convinces the people who take the decisions. It is not enough for me to say we can find content and it will work. I have to prove it.

I would like to thank everybody who has helped me to get to this point.

I am also begging everybody who would like this endeavor to succeed to continue helping me.
 

treasurediver,
I wish you all the Luck in the World in your Project.

"Is my job finished? It only just started. I still need to put a package together that convinces the people who take the decisions. It is not enough for me to say we can find content and it will work. I have to prove
I would like to thank everybody who has helped me get to this point.
I am also begging everybody who would like this endeavor to succeed to continue helping me."

Like I said Tony, I wish you Luck in your endeavor, I only have one question. Your quote above seems to state that this is for you. I thought you put the post up to help others get their shipwrecks on film???

Either way Good Luck.


 

Colombiapictures said:
We would like to find more stories of pirates that are connected with the salvage efforts.

One possible way to tell these stories, would be a bit similar as the TV series "The Men Who Built America"

Any opinions, even critical ones are welcome.
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Colombiapictures said:
Does anybody have any details about Jennings raid. Is the exact location of the salver camp that he attacked known?
Click to expand...

Re: Jennings. Absolutely! I've looked at his story from several angles, have his timeline all spelled out (somewhere in my archives). Jennings is fascinating for lots of reasons - he's a land owner turned pirate, then he's a pirate turned straight (takes the pardon), then he has a mysterious end with some claiming he was captured & tortured by Spanish & others saying he lived a peaceful family life to a ripe old age & still others with other claims (similar to his rival Hornigold whose mysterious end sparks the imagination).

Jennings was not the only pirate to attack the 1715 salvage camps, but certainly the most infamous. There are theories based on the witness statements that typically place his first raid at Salmon's camp at Ubilla's capitana. Probably same place in the 2nd raid. He was a brazen guy, which is why his quick change of heart before & after was so intriguing.

Great thing about Jennings is that you have a complete story here of the people who wrecked, manifests of treasure, the people who salvaged in 1715, the pirates who raided AND the modern salvers who showed up over the last 50 years - all at the same site. And now there's a treasure museum on the site!

But in addition, the 1715 wrecks can arguably be credited/blamed for the true Pirates of the Caribbean, so there are lots of spinoff stories that could make it a great 2-hour opener (or huge season finale).

I think I mentioned I'm off to Hollywood in less than 2 weeks to pitch my screenplay(s). Maybe I'll try to sketch out a script for the Jennings episode on the plane ride(s).

G.I.B. said:
IAnd, in the name of everything holy in, under, over, or on the sea- STOP replaying the last minute or two that was just on before the commercials. Just because a few commercials came on doesn't mean I've went totally stupid and forgot what happened 3 minutes ago. It's cheesy- makes me think you don't have enough content.
Click to expand...

Amen.
 

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ever look into the very interesting story of the "Nassau sound" / Amelia Island 1715 era mystery wreck ? -- 1715 fleet type treasures found coming from a wreck in the Nassau sound area --between Amelia Island and Talbot Island Florida --- SOME THINK ITS FROM ONE OF THE 2 "MISSING" 1715 FLEET VESSELS --while I believe its is a "rescue / recovery vessel " barcolonga * sent from Havana , Cuba to recover royal treasures and VIP persons ..from the main 8 vessel 1715 fleet wreck sites down south * --- because of a letter from Alexander Spotswood --Lt Governor of Virginia on Oct 24th ,1715 TO BRITISH LORD Stanhope ... IN A PS AT THE LETTERS BOTTOM =--Spotswood explains in detail --the type of vessel (a barcolonga) was sent from (Havana , Cuba) to fetch off VIPS and treasures that were wrecked in the 1715 fleet wreck sites ... and that the recovery vessel was like wise wrecked about 40 miles to the north of St. Augustine ... Spotswood in the letter is basically asking for the royal ok to attempt to loot the wreck which is clearly in Spanish waters and is a Spanish ship...
 

GROSSMUSIC --THE PIRATE JENNINGS WAS A "JOCOBITE" -- PRO SCOTTISH PRINCE CHARLEY FOR THE THRONE -- THATS WHY AFTER THE 1715 REVOLT FAILED --HE TOOK THE ENGLISH PARDON AND SETTLED DOWN AS A GENTLEMAN FARMER --BUT WHEN THE 1745 REVOLT CAME UP AGAIN --HE CAME OUT OF RETIREMENT (MOST LIKELY HE WAS BORED TO DEATH OF FARMING FOR 30 YEARS ) BUT IN HIS RAIDING OF THE SPANISH DURING THIS SECOND PEROID TO HELP GAIN MONEY TO BUY ARMS FOR SCOTLAND --HE WAS CAUGHT BY THE SPANISH UPON WHOM HE WAS RAIDING --HE NEVER LIKED ANYTHING TO DO WITH SPAIN ANYWAY --AND EVEN THE FACT THAT BONNEY PRINCE CHARLES OF SCOTLAND WAS CATHOLIC (AND THE SPANISH WOULD MUCH RATHER HAVE HIM ON THE THRONE OF ENGLAND) DID NOT HELP JENNINGS ..SINCE HIS ATTACKS WERE AGAINST SPANISH SHIPS --NOT ENGLISH ONES..

THE GOVENOR HAMILTON --WAS RECALLED --FOR ALLOWING ENGLISH "PIRATES" TO RAID THE SPANISH WRECK SITES FOR "CUT' OF THE MONEY --IT WAS THOUGHT THAT HE TOO WAS A "JACOBITE" BUT IT WAS NEVER PROVEN BY A TRAIL OF HIS "PEERS" --BUT HE LOST HIS POST , JUST THE SAME --AND RETIRED TO LIVE WELL OFF FOR THE REMAINDER OF HIS DAYS
 

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ivan salis said:
GROSSMUSIC --THE PIRATE JENNINGS WAS A "JOCOBITE"
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True. Being a Jacobite was a strong/main motivation for Jennings & lots of pirates. However, when you keep the loot for yourself, it's hard to argue your ideals for the cause. Spain supported the Jacobite cause. And considering the contention between Jennings & other English pirates, he wasn't so pure in his resolve to only harass the Spanish. And the fact that he mentored perhaps the most ruthless pirate of all, Charles Vane, shows it wasn't just religious/political principles driving him to piracy. Hamilton is another example of someone definitely inspired by more than just beliefs, just like most of the pirates he sent to the wrecks.

In fact, the failing of the 1715 treasure to reach Spain until December affected the Jacobite cause because King Philip V planned to contribute from the treasury to the cause, & it arrived too late to be of use for the 1715 uprising. (Remember, the 1715 fleet was really meant to be a 1713/1714 fleet - but delays pushed it to 1715. And the Queen's Jewels were not originally meant for the new queen since they were ordered by the still living previous queen who died in 1714, AFTER the fleet was commissioned.)

(everything above is on memory - no time to go into archives to ensure I'm being accurate, but I think it's the gist of it)
 

For something different (unless this series will be focused strictly on classic treasure shipwrecks), how about a virgin Civil War blockade runner in deep water that is currently being investigated? Originally built and owned by Cornelius Vanderbilt. Fantastic cat and mouse story with the pursuing U.S. Navy. Skip to 3:25 to get an idea of the wreck and its background:

Several other solid story ideas (some included in the above link) if you want to contact me offline to discuss. Having worked on almost 10 documentary shoots, this would not be my first rodeo. ;>)
Cheers,
Mike
 

I've done EXTENSIVE research on the life of Harry Rieseberg. The one thing he could do was research. I doubt he ever went on a salvage trip even once. He worked for the federal government until he was forced to resign. He gathered everything he could find. Amazing researcher....I can't attest to all his facts. His stock in trade was his list.


Colombiapictures said:
Thanks for the link. It is a great thread.
One thing I would like to mention. I took a marker pen and marked in nice pink color, every shipwreck that I knew had been found in modern times, in one of Harry Rieseberg's shipwreck lists. The result was amazing. Where did he get all this information from?
I think he mentions the Library of Congress or something like that.
Click to expand...
 

gpinkerton said:
I've done EXTENSIVE research on the life of Harry Rieseberg. The one thing he could do was research. I doubt he ever went on a salvage trip even once. He worked for the federal government until he was forced to resign. He gathered everything he could find. Amazing researcher....I can't attest to all his facts. His stock in trade was his list.
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I came to a different conclusion. Maybe you're right - he loved research, but his accounts of intact chests of money neatly stacked along the reef structure was enough for me to call BS. I would agree he likely never went on a salvage trip. I developed the opinion he was more interested in telling sensational stories than accurate accounts.
 

I don't know of any better story than that of the 1715 fleet.
Untitled Document

The fleet had suffered many delays, and had been sitting idle for nearly two years. Pressure had been mounting for the fleet to sail. The Spanish crown was in dire need of money; so were merchants who had been unable to make their exotic goods available for sale on the European market. Under this tremendous pressure, Ubilla made the decision to start the long and perilous voyage back to the Old World, even though the hurricane season had long begun. This decision would prove to be fatal, for unknown to the Spaniards a tremendous and exceptionally powerful hurricane was brewing to the southeast of Cuba. The great treasure fleet of 1715 sailed from Havana harbor in the early morning of July 24[SUP]th[/SUP], a beautiful and calm day, with a gentle breeze to help the ships find the Florida Current which ran north and up the Straits of Florida. Slowly and smoothly the ships of Ubilla’s fleet gently followed the East coast of Florida, staying far enough away from the shore to take advantage of the Gulf Stream, and stay clear of the treacherous shoals and reef formations which fringed the Florida coast. For the first five days the voyage was uneventful with the weather remaining good and giving no indication whatsoever of the rapidly approaching killer storm. But on July 29[SUP]th[/SUP], long swells started to appear, coming from the southeast. The atmosphere became heavy with moisture with the sun shining brightly through the haze. A gentle breeze still blew and the sea was smooth, but the swells started to make the ship gently dip and roll. Experienced navigators, pilots, and old hands started to be concerned. They knew that these were the early signs of an impending tropical storm.
​
The storm was traveling north, almost due east of the convoy, but still many many miles away. The storm had reached alarming intensity with winds at the center of the storm now reaching one hundred miles per hour. By nightfall the hurricane had made a drastic change in course, suddenly veering directly to the west. On the morning of July 30[SUP]th[/SUP], along the east coast of Florida, just south of Cape Canaveral, winds had begun to pick up and by midday had increased to well over 20 knots, and the sea was rapidly building up. By late afternoon winds had increased to over thirty knots, and the waves were reaching twenty feet. Ubilla’s fleet was relentlessly driven closer and closer to shore. The Captain General gave the order that all ships head into the wind in order to stay well clear of the reef and shoals, but the attempt was marginally successful. The velocity of the wind kept increasing, and by midnight, the ships were barely under control. Around 4 a.m. on July 31[SUP]st[/SUP], the hurricane struck the doomed ships with all its might, driving one ship after another on the deadly jagged reefs. The ships broke up like wooden toys. Ubilla’s Capitana disintegrated, crushed on the reef like matchsticks. Almost all aboard were killed, including Captain General Ubilla. The entire fleet was lost, and of the some twenty five hundred persons aboard various ships, over one thousand perished. Contrary to previous accounts by various historians, there is no historical evidence to indicate that the Griffon survived the terrible storm, and we can assume that it was lost, as were the two other ships of the 1715 fleet, around the shoals of Cape Canaveral.​
For those who had miraculously survived, the ordeal was just beginning. They were stranded in an inhospitable land, infested with disease-carrying mosquitoes, rattle snakes, wild animals, and hostile Indians, far from any settlement, without food, fresh water, or badly needed medical supplies.
​
 

Darren in Trinidad said:
I came to a different conclusion. Maybe you're right - he loved research, but his accounts of intact chests of money neatly stacked along the reef structure was enough for me to call BS. I would agree he likely never went on a salvage trip. I developed the opinion he was more interested in telling sensational stories than accurate accounts.
Click to expand...

Never the less, there is no denying that Harry Rieseberg was the instigator that set off many of a whole generation of treasure hunters. Amazing how much influence a dreamer can have.
 

Red desert, thanks for the link. The 1715 Fleet disaster seems to be the best documented of all shipwreck disasters.
We have to ask ourselves: Why is that?

Is is because many scientific archaeological excavations were made on the remains of the 1715 fleet?
Is it because many scientific articles were published about the 1715 fleet?

Or is it because PRIVATE ENTERPRISE has invested vast quantities of time and money in it?
 

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