Season 7 - The story goes on...
- Thread starter gazzahk
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lokiblossom
Bronze Member
No, its proof! The "coir" was positively identified by one of the best known botanist's in the world, Canadian James H. Soper in three of the four samples sent him from the museum. The several datings were done by two different labs with complete analysis also supplied, with both labs well respected and well qualified the dating has never wavered from the late 1100's to the 14th century. Nowhere does any of the above test use the words "could have", "possibly", "likely", or even "probably". Since Mr. Soper's id, there have been at least two other positive id's of the material. Those id's that were inconclusive may not have been coconut fibre at all, as in the one case of Mr. Soper's one test of his four samples. That btw, is the only "may" in this discussion.
Sorry gazzahk, I'm trying to get this to my own thread!
Cheers, Loki
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DaveVanP
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Something to help people get through the last few episodes for the season....
View attachment 1823181
Guaranteed to leave you smashed every episode....
Need to add a few others: "top pocket", "between 1710 and 1790", "Bobby dazzler" "pooter"
Raparee
Hero Member
Even if the material actually is coconut, even if the dating is accurate, there is still nothing to connect it to the Templars.
DaveVanP
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My comment you quoted concerns PROVING that the Templars, and ONLY the Templars were responsible for the coconut fibre being on Oak Island. You repeatedly state that the Templars "had access" to Mediterranean coir, and therefore "could" have used it for rigging...but no proof that they actually DID use it, let alone brought it to North America. IF they used it at all, it would have been as a substandard "stop-gap" or "make-do" measure until such time as it was possible to obtain proper hemp rope...such as when they returned to La Rochelle. ANY planned extended voyage/escape from there would have required a thorough preparation and re-fit of the vessels, and replacing any such jury-rigged or ad hoc materials. BTW - Did any of the coconut fibres from Oak Island contain traces of tar? About half the rigging on a sailing vessel (standing rigging) was tarred to prevent rot. Fibre used as caulking (oakum) would also be tarred.
lokiblossom
Bronze Member
Well part of your quote was that there was no proof it even was coconut coir which is wrong, as I showed. The other was the dating, which you wrote was not accurate, which of course is also wrong. As for the Templars using "coir" while in Outremer is a no brainer, they didn't travel back and forth on a whim to Europe, vessels based in Outremer generally stayed in Outremer. The only vessels that did travel back to France were those that carried pilgrims to the Holyland, and they were actually based in France. The Templar's and their Mediterranean Fleet were stationed in the Eastern Mediterranean for over 200 years, during that period they built vessels there, ate food from there, built many castles and fortifications there with local stones rocks and mortar, there can be no doubt they used available local materials to supply and rig their ships. I think this is a moot point to discuss.
And they weren't jury rigged, "coir" made a very usable rope and many of the other items hemp would have been used for in Europe. "Coir" also had a major advantage, it would far outlast hemp in rot resistance.
If the Lost Tribes of Israel did travel to North America wouldn't they have built vessels using local materials?
Cheers, Loki
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ECS
Banned
James H Soper, known for his 1964 article "Mapping the Distribution of Plants by Machine" on the Canadian Journal of Botany "positively identified" three of four samples sent to him from what museum and when?
What was the fourth sample's identity?
"Since Mr Soper's id", who provided the "two other positive id's of the material", and is this the exact same material Soper and the "well respected and well qualified" labs who provided that dating?
Please cite the source and provide links to these analysis papers and the provenance chain of custody that conclusively identify these samples as coir from the "1100's to the 14th century", and how these samples can prove that they could ONLY be placed on Oak Island by Templars and no other party at a later time.
ECS
Banned
Another hayride to the strawman red herring fish fry.
I enjoyed this week's episode! The drinking game above was intense. Forgive me if this post has spelling errors or is incoherent.
They showed how a can bore hole is decommissioned - it is back filled with rock as the can is lifted. Meaning if they drill next to it in the future, those rock contents are known.
For those hoping for the end of the series: you have many tears to shed! The sonic survey revealed a 13 X 13 tear-shaped anomaly at 160 feet ... next to H8 (which just missed it). So the famous Chapel Vault is the tear shaped object.
They brought up another 1700's era pick axe with the handle attached. Cool to see the size of this thing where they gripped it - must have had massive hands to work that for hours on end. And that should confirm that aliens weren't the original depositors because they would have used ray guns to dig instead of manual pick axes.
And of course introducing Templar-planted cork oaks from Portugal based on findings in the swamp. And correlating with artifacts brought by the Restalls.
They showed how a can bore hole is decommissioned - it is back filled with rock as the can is lifted. Meaning if they drill next to it in the future, those rock contents are known.
For those hoping for the end of the series: you have many tears to shed! The sonic survey revealed a 13 X 13 tear-shaped anomaly at 160 feet ... next to H8 (which just missed it). So the famous Chapel Vault is the tear shaped object.
They brought up another 1700's era pick axe with the handle attached. Cool to see the size of this thing where they gripped it - must have had massive hands to work that for hours on end. And that should confirm that aliens weren't the original depositors because they would have used ray guns to dig instead of manual pick axes.
And of course introducing Templar-planted cork oaks from Portugal based on findings in the swamp. And correlating with artifacts brought by the Restalls.
ECS
Banned
In addition to being an order of warrior monks, bankers, and traders, the Templars were also arborists?
So the real purpose of this undocumented alleged Templar voyage to Oak Island was NOT to bury treasure, but to plant cork oak trees from Portugal.
Now that's a good one!
So the real purpose of this undocumented alleged Templar voyage to Oak Island was NOT to bury treasure, but to plant cork oak trees from Portugal.
Now that's a good one!
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Charlie P. (NY)
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We knew that.
lokiblossom
Bronze Member
In addition to being an order of warrior monks, bankers, and traders, the Templars were also arborists?
So the real purpose of this undocumented alleged Templar voyage to Oak Island was NOT to bury treasure, but to plant cork oak trees from Portugal.
Now that's a good one!
Wow, your purpose here is becoming clear now!
Cheers, Loki
DaveVanP
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NI !!!
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gazzahk
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IF.....The wood they are finding is of the same time period as the U Shaped structure this is only 25 YEARS before the 'alleged' finding of the Money Pit. There was a well documented and established community in the area at this time. There is NO WAY that a major excavation/building operation could of taken place without locals being aware it was going on. There was a coffer dam, pier etc everyone would of known at the time what was happening. If there is no record of it then it must of been very un remarkable ie naval sores, fishing, timber, boat repair etc... This does not in any way link up with ANY of their treasure theories...
They continue to pretend excitement over finding old tunnel digging stuff when they are digging up old tunnels....Surely by now if there was any treasure buried there than they would of found more than old wood and tunnel digging stuff. This is not interesting it is expected. If they did not find some old tools that would be more unusual.
The old Oak Leaf I really do not see the significance. It is well accepted that stuff (coconut fiber/eel grass, branches etc ) were used on the beach. There are photographs of old oak trees that are not native to the island. So I really do not see what they think that this shows.
I also do not know why the anomaly (tear shaped) is not most likely to simply be a part of a previous searchers shaft (or a natural feature like the sand at 'the latrine' they found earlier). The seismic mapping has not shown anything of any use so far. It seems like the whole seismic mapping at most shows nothing unusual is under the ground at Oak Island.
Lucky I were not playing the new drinking game this episode would of seen me dead with alcohol poising.
It obvious they are out of interesting things when they are bringing back previous guests for no good reason....
They continue to pretend excitement over finding old tunnel digging stuff when they are digging up old tunnels....Surely by now if there was any treasure buried there than they would of found more than old wood and tunnel digging stuff. This is not interesting it is expected. If they did not find some old tools that would be more unusual.
The old Oak Leaf I really do not see the significance. It is well accepted that stuff (coconut fiber/eel grass, branches etc ) were used on the beach. There are photographs of old oak trees that are not native to the island. So I really do not see what they think that this shows.
I also do not know why the anomaly (tear shaped) is not most likely to simply be a part of a previous searchers shaft (or a natural feature like the sand at 'the latrine' they found earlier). The seismic mapping has not shown anything of any use so far. It seems like the whole seismic mapping at most shows nothing unusual is under the ground at Oak Island.
Lucky I were not playing the new drinking game this episode would of seen me dead with alcohol poising.
It obvious they are out of interesting things when they are bringing back previous guests for no good reason....
DaveVanP
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To tell the truth, I cannot recall if it was you or franklin that stated that the Templars would have used rigging made of coconut fibre "until such time as proper hemp or sisal rope could be obtained' which implied that such coconut fibre rope was sub-standard.
That's just it it's NOT WELL ACCEPTED on here atleast. Some don't believe in the coconut fibers as being coconut fiber which is why they had them tested. Same as that leaf and acorns. If they get it tested it takes the dispute out of it.. Neither helps find any treasure of course..
For those who keep saying it is well documented of activity on the island years before the Money Pit was supposedly found, like fishing camps, boat repair shop, salt mining factory, etc etc. Can you name any of them or any other business that MIGHT have been there around that time or before that would have needed to dig a hole over 100' deep?
For those who keep saying it is well documented of activity on the island years before the Money Pit was supposedly found, like fishing camps, boat repair shop, salt mining factory, etc etc. Can you name any of them or any other business that MIGHT have been there around that time or before that would have needed to dig a hole over 100' deep?
franklin
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A fresh water well. There have been numerous dug in search of treasure around the Money Pit. Some to depths of over 140 feet and filled with Fresh Water not Salt Water. Maybe all that Vaughn, McGinnis, Smith and Ball found was a well dug in the early 1730's by the British Army for fresh water for their men that were stationed there from 1730 to 1738. It could also have been a shaft for mining of minerals as Nova Scotia as all kinds of minerals and mines even gold mines along Gold River.
lokiblossom
Bronze Member
I don't know if sub-standard is the correct word or not, but hemp rope would be easier to use than "coir", I have used some coconut coir myself as an experiment. One decided advantage of the "coir" was its resistance to rot. In the Eastern Mediterranean (the nations of Outremer) coir was what was available and coir is what they used. The advantages of hemp were evidently not enough to warrant shipping large quantities of the material across the Mediterranean. By the same token I don't believe the advantage was enough that a vessel that did return to France would have instantly replaced coir with hemp, especially if that same vessel had to remain ready for an important voyage.
Cheers, Loki
ECS
Banned
...and what purpose may that be, Loki, my friend?
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gazzahk
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- #380
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oak_Island
There were already people farming/settling the island when they are claiming the earliest date that timber could of been used (it could of been used later the date 1765 is simply when it was cut down).
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