Rebel - KGC
Gold Member
- Jun 15, 2007
- 21,663
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NOT good enough; just YOUR opinion, based on info that YOU got from US...
QUESTIONABLE INFORMATION POSTED AS FACT CONCERNING THE BEALE TALE
- Thread starter ECS
- Start date
ECS
Banned
- Thread starter
- #102
In responce to your accusation of plagarism:
First, I did not get this information from you or from whomever "US" refers, as it is in contention to the non facts opinion You and "US" post, and you do not hold a franchise on this information.
Second, my "opinion" is supported by the above actual real facts listed in #100, while much of your posts are disparagements based on opinion or the books of others without any real facts to support your position.
I am sorry that my fact based deductive conclusions have so upset you and "US", was never my intention, just trying to resolve this dime novel treasure story pamphlet for what it really was- not a true story or cover story, just a period adventure/treasure story with play along parlor entertainment ciphers targeted and marketed for a local Virginia area.
After 135+ years, nothing has been produced that proves anything different from this assessment of Ward's pamphlet.
First, I did not get this information from you or from whomever "US" refers, as it is in contention to the non facts opinion You and "US" post, and you do not hold a franchise on this information.
Second, my "opinion" is supported by the above actual real facts listed in #100, while much of your posts are disparagements based on opinion or the books of others without any real facts to support your position.
I am sorry that my fact based deductive conclusions have so upset you and "US", was never my intention, just trying to resolve this dime novel treasure story pamphlet for what it really was- not a true story or cover story, just a period adventure/treasure story with play along parlor entertainment ciphers targeted and marketed for a local Virginia area.
After 135+ years, nothing has been produced that proves anything different from this assessment of Ward's pamphlet.
Last edited:
Rebel - KGC
Gold Member
- Jun 15, 2007
- 21,663
- 14,726
YOUR opinion...
L.C. BAKER
Silver Member
I have a question about this Bealle treasure tale. I know all of you guys take it pretty seriously on both sides of the fence so I would like to know where is the starting point? Date/Year that it all began? Can ALL of you agree on that for sure?
I have heard bits and pieces and I have never really applied myself to it at all except for noticing that it had the same type of cipher involved with it as one of ours. That is enough to grab my attention as making it possible, so guide a Bealle novice through it and bounce it off of me if you guys don't mind and I will see for myself and make up my mind if there is any merit to the Bealle stories for myself with what ever you can present to me. I would like to begin at the starting point if we can arrive at it.
Thanks, L.C.
I have heard bits and pieces and I have never really applied myself to it at all except for noticing that it had the same type of cipher involved with it as one of ours. That is enough to grab my attention as making it possible, so guide a Bealle novice through it and bounce it off of me if you guys don't mind and I will see for myself and make up my mind if there is any merit to the Bealle stories for myself with what ever you can present to me. I would like to begin at the starting point if we can arrive at it.Thanks, L.C.
Rebel - KGC
Gold Member
- Jun 15, 2007
- 21,663
- 14,726
ECS
Banned
- Thread starter
- #109
In review, many claims of "facts" concerning the Beale perilous adventure treasure story have been made by various authors over the years, beginning with George L Hart and what he introduced to Pauline Innis whose book and magazine articles brought this obscure local Lynchburg dime novel pamphlet to national notoriety.
Since then, other books with unfounded "facts" and claims of cipher solutions have become the norm, all the while NO EVIDENCE outside of the 1885 pamphlet has ever been produced that can prove that Thomas J Beale was more than just a fictional character and his Party's perilous adventure discovery of gold and silver, trading silver for jewels in St Louis, staying with Morriss at the Washington Hotel and at Buford's while digging the treasure vault for iron pots filled with the aforementioned treasure just a fictional adventure treasure story of the period with the clever addition of play along ciphers as parlor entertainment.
All the characters and locations can be traced to the extended families of Ward and his wife, which provide the source material for the writing and sale of an expensive for its time pamphlet, that during the pamphlets short marketing span was only in the Lynchburg and nearby areas.
Some has pointed at the two book reviews, one in the LYNCHBURG VIRGINIAN and the other in THE ROANOAK TIMES as proof of the Beale adventure,... but that is only proof that the BEALE PAPERS dome novel pamphlet was for sale, and NOT that the story or ciphers in the text were real.
In conclusion, during the 135+ years since Ward published the BEALE PAPERS, NOTHING has been presented beyond the speculation of maybe, could be, that continues to masquerade as "fact", that can honestly prove the BEALE PAPERS were more than just a work of fiction.
Since then, other books with unfounded "facts" and claims of cipher solutions have become the norm, all the while NO EVIDENCE outside of the 1885 pamphlet has ever been produced that can prove that Thomas J Beale was more than just a fictional character and his Party's perilous adventure discovery of gold and silver, trading silver for jewels in St Louis, staying with Morriss at the Washington Hotel and at Buford's while digging the treasure vault for iron pots filled with the aforementioned treasure just a fictional adventure treasure story of the period with the clever addition of play along ciphers as parlor entertainment.
All the characters and locations can be traced to the extended families of Ward and his wife, which provide the source material for the writing and sale of an expensive for its time pamphlet, that during the pamphlets short marketing span was only in the Lynchburg and nearby areas.
Some has pointed at the two book reviews, one in the LYNCHBURG VIRGINIAN and the other in THE ROANOAK TIMES as proof of the Beale adventure,... but that is only proof that the BEALE PAPERS dome novel pamphlet was for sale, and NOT that the story or ciphers in the text were real.
In conclusion, during the 135+ years since Ward published the BEALE PAPERS, NOTHING has been presented beyond the speculation of maybe, could be, that continues to masquerade as "fact", that can honestly prove the BEALE PAPERS were more than just a work of fiction.
Rebel - KGC
Gold Member
- Jun 15, 2007
- 21,663
- 14,726
GREAT exercise; WONDERFUL scenery for "our" scenario... AH! The Blue Ridge Parkway!
ECS
Banned
- Thread starter
- #112
Well ya'lls boots were made for walking, and all that walking has yet to produce any real hard evidence that Beale story and treasure existed beyond the pamphlet's pages.So, without any outside collaboration of the events in the Beale tale, the discussion I presented with sources documented as to events in Ward's extended family's that just so happen to parallel events depicted in the Beale Papers pamphlet, firmly establish it was nothing more than a period adventure treasure dime novel with play along ciphers added as a parlor entertainment.
If there is any evidence that can disprove this summation...
"Are you ready boots- get walking"
Rebel - KGC
Gold Member
- Jun 15, 2007
- 21,663
- 14,726
Boring...
.
Rebel - KGC
Gold Member
- Jun 15, 2007
- 21,663
- 14,726
Old_Romad
Newbie
- Feb 28, 2013
- 2
- 1
- Detector(s) used
- Fisher Gold Bug 2
White 6000/D
Garret ACE 250
Falcon MD20
Stanley Stud Finder....
- Primary Interest:
- Relic Hunting
ANYTIME a goverment employee, ESPECIALLY a low ranking military member says "it ain't so!" you can damn well bet it iS!!
Old_Romad
Newbie
- Feb 28, 2013
- 2
- 1
- Detector(s) used
- Fisher Gold Bug 2
White 6000/D
Garret ACE 250
Falcon MD20
Stanley Stud Finder....
- Primary Interest:
- Relic Hunting
Cannot believe how long or contenious this thread has gone on! Really, who cares? The REAL treasure isn't always the pot in the ground. It IS the hunt and the research, and yes sometimes a differing opinion or two. I know that if a few of you were my kids (and yes I am old enough you could be) I would probably beat the tar of out of you and tie you together for a few says to think "humble" thoughts! LOL
I did find a whopper tho, concerning a blog entry by some nitwit called "Know Future" in (I think) 2007?.
On the website “http://lost-beale-treasure.blogspot.com/” someone posted that he had the “original” Beale diary. (probably found when he sold the Brooklyn bridge?)
The problem is he wouldn’t show it, but typed “excerpts” from it. In one, supposedly dated 1 January 1813 Detroit, Michigan,
Beale is supposed to have stated, “The hospital surgeon signed my release for active duty today! It has taken longer than I had hoped to make a full recovery. Still, General Harrison is impressed that I am back this soon. I met with him and his staff officers this evening after supper. He gave a brief, but excellent speech describing my wilderness ordeal, then awarded me a Bronze Star and a Purple Heart.” Now, if the poster had left that out, he might have not been proven a faker. You see those medals didn’t exist then!!
The original Purple Heart, designated as the Badge of Military Merit, was established by George Washington – then the commander-in-chief of the Continental Army – by order from his Newburgh, New York headquarters on August 7, 1782. The Badge of Military Merit was only awarded to three Revolutionary War soldiers by Gen. George Washington himself. General Washington authorized his subordinate officers to issue Badges of Merit as appropriate. From then on, as its legend grew, so did its appearance. Although never abolished, the award of the badge was not proposed again officially until after World War I.
On October 10, 1927, Army Chief of Staff General Charles Pelot Summerall directed that a draft bill be sent to Congress "to revive the Badge of Military Merit". The bill was withdrawn and action on the case ceased January 3, 1928, but the office of the Adjutant General was instructed to file all materials collected for possible future use. A number of private interests sought to have the medal re-instituted in the Army; this included the board of directors of the Fort Ticonderoga Museum in Ticonderoga, New York.
On January 7, 1931, Summerall's successor, General Douglas MacArthur, confidentially reopened work on a new design, involving the Washington Commission of Fine Arts.
By Executive Order of the President of the United States, the Purple Heart was revived on the 200th Anniversary of George Washington's birth, out of respect to his memory and military achievements, by War Department General Order No. 3, dated February 22, 1932. The FIRST time it was called “The Purple Heart”)
You can see that the author says he is interested in time travel too. He had to be. There is a tiny discrepancy in the dates between his supposed award and the creation of said reward. Such as:
43,515 days from the start date to the end date, but not including the end date.
Or 119 years, 1 month, 21 days excluding the end date.
Or 1429 month, 21 days excluding the end date.
Or 3,759,696,000 seconds
Or 62,661,600 minutes
Or 1,044,360 hours
Or 43,515 days
Or 6216 weeks and 3 days
Or if you really care, 11,921.92% of a common year (365 days)
Not, of course, forgetting the Bronze Star either…..
The Bronze Star Medal was established by Executive Order 9419, 4 February 1944.
Colonel Russell P. "Red" Reeder conceived the idea of the Bronze Star Medal in 1943; he believed it would aid morale if captains of companies or of batteries could award a medal to deserving people serving under them. Reeder felt another medal was needed as a ground equivalent of the Air Medal, and suggested calling the proposed new award the "Ground Medal".
President Roosevelt authorized the Bronze Star Medal by Executive Order 9419 dated 4 February 1944, retroactive to 7 December 1941. This authorization was announced in War Department Bulletin No. 3, dated 10 February 1944.
Without being silly again, that still leaves that date problem of the time between his supposed award and the creation of said reward, of 47,886 days from the start date to the end date, but not including the end date.
Or 131 years, 1 month, 9 days excluding the end date.
Or 1573 month, 9 days excluding the end date.
So, the blogger who only identified himself as:
Name: kNOw FUTURE
Location: The Ozarks, Missouri, United States
Interests: History, time travel, cryptology, treasure hunting
on blogspot.com, is quite handily proven a fraud and a fool. (even a 5 year old could do that much research!)
Have FUN you guys! THAT is what this is really all about! Right?
I did find a whopper tho, concerning a blog entry by some nitwit called "Know Future" in (I think) 2007?.
On the website “http://lost-beale-treasure.blogspot.com/” someone posted that he had the “original” Beale diary. (probably found when he sold the Brooklyn bridge?)
The problem is he wouldn’t show it, but typed “excerpts” from it. In one, supposedly dated 1 January 1813 Detroit, Michigan,
Beale is supposed to have stated, “The hospital surgeon signed my release for active duty today! It has taken longer than I had hoped to make a full recovery. Still, General Harrison is impressed that I am back this soon. I met with him and his staff officers this evening after supper. He gave a brief, but excellent speech describing my wilderness ordeal, then awarded me a Bronze Star and a Purple Heart.” Now, if the poster had left that out, he might have not been proven a faker. You see those medals didn’t exist then!!
The original Purple Heart, designated as the Badge of Military Merit, was established by George Washington – then the commander-in-chief of the Continental Army – by order from his Newburgh, New York headquarters on August 7, 1782. The Badge of Military Merit was only awarded to three Revolutionary War soldiers by Gen. George Washington himself. General Washington authorized his subordinate officers to issue Badges of Merit as appropriate. From then on, as its legend grew, so did its appearance. Although never abolished, the award of the badge was not proposed again officially until after World War I.
On October 10, 1927, Army Chief of Staff General Charles Pelot Summerall directed that a draft bill be sent to Congress "to revive the Badge of Military Merit". The bill was withdrawn and action on the case ceased January 3, 1928, but the office of the Adjutant General was instructed to file all materials collected for possible future use. A number of private interests sought to have the medal re-instituted in the Army; this included the board of directors of the Fort Ticonderoga Museum in Ticonderoga, New York.
On January 7, 1931, Summerall's successor, General Douglas MacArthur, confidentially reopened work on a new design, involving the Washington Commission of Fine Arts.
By Executive Order of the President of the United States, the Purple Heart was revived on the 200th Anniversary of George Washington's birth, out of respect to his memory and military achievements, by War Department General Order No. 3, dated February 22, 1932. The FIRST time it was called “The Purple Heart”)
You can see that the author says he is interested in time travel too. He had to be. There is a tiny discrepancy in the dates between his supposed award and the creation of said reward. Such as:
43,515 days from the start date to the end date, but not including the end date.
Or 119 years, 1 month, 21 days excluding the end date.
Or 1429 month, 21 days excluding the end date.
Or 3,759,696,000 seconds
Or 62,661,600 minutes
Or 1,044,360 hours
Or 43,515 days
Or 6216 weeks and 3 days
Or if you really care, 11,921.92% of a common year (365 days)
Not, of course, forgetting the Bronze Star either…..
The Bronze Star Medal was established by Executive Order 9419, 4 February 1944.
Colonel Russell P. "Red" Reeder conceived the idea of the Bronze Star Medal in 1943; he believed it would aid morale if captains of companies or of batteries could award a medal to deserving people serving under them. Reeder felt another medal was needed as a ground equivalent of the Air Medal, and suggested calling the proposed new award the "Ground Medal".
President Roosevelt authorized the Bronze Star Medal by Executive Order 9419 dated 4 February 1944, retroactive to 7 December 1941. This authorization was announced in War Department Bulletin No. 3, dated 10 February 1944.
Without being silly again, that still leaves that date problem of the time between his supposed award and the creation of said reward, of 47,886 days from the start date to the end date, but not including the end date.
Or 131 years, 1 month, 9 days excluding the end date.
Or 1573 month, 9 days excluding the end date.
So, the blogger who only identified himself as:
Name: kNOw FUTURE
Location: The Ozarks, Missouri, United States
Interests: History, time travel, cryptology, treasure hunting
on blogspot.com, is quite handily proven a fraud and a fool. (even a 5 year old could do that much research!)
Have FUN you guys! THAT is what this is really all about! Right?
Str8 Shooter
Greenie
- Jun 3, 2019
- 12
- 7
- Primary Interest:
- All Treasure Hunting
As your quote says generals had the authority to issue the Badge of Merit (in the shape of a heart colored purple), as for the bronze star that could have been a campaign medal which generals also handed out. So Beale's diary entry could be absolutely true.
I have read most all of the threads related to this topic and I really just want to ask a question, w/o all the squabbling and nonsense about who is right/wrong; I mean really - who cares?
Where was Captain Thomas Beale (Beale, Bealle, whatever) buried and when?
Is there any record for his place of burial
Where was Captain Thomas Beale (Beale, Bealle, whatever) buried and when?
Is there any record for his place of burial
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