Possible cache location found, how to retrieve.

[perfectsim]

Can you SCUBA in quicksand? Obviously you'd need a very powerful winch to haul you back up, with the appropriate wires... but can the equiptment take it?

Then again your goggles would have to absolutely exclude all sand, which would be near impossible unless you were wearing a full helmet of somesort.

 

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[ScubaFinder]

Hmmm, I don't think i would try diving in quick sand...unless I hear silver pinging on the end of the rebar

For anyone interested, they did a story on Athens Scuba Park on the news last night that shows some underwater footage of the airplane I mentioned 2 posts ago.

http://www.myfoxdfw.com/myfox/pages...n=1&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=VSTY&pageId=7.1.1

 

[Hounddog]

Have you had any luck with the quick sand silver yet? Sure is a interesting story. If you know how deep it is now, I had a idea not sure if it would work but... If you used 2 inch pvc to reach the bottom and have a another pipe that fit tight over the end of the pvc say 2 or 3 foot long with a end cap on one end grease could help seal it up. May even drill a small hole in the end cap that can be covered with a finger. I am thinking as you pull the smaller pipe up the pvc covering the hole you could suck what is on the bottom of that quick sand up into the 2 inch pvc. By letting your finger off the hole on the downward slide of the smaller pipe so not to push what ever is in the pvc back out. You could fill the pvc pipe right up to get a sample of what is on the bottom.

 

[KGCnewbieseeker]

yeh any luck and wheres thhe pick of the buffolo tree carving we wanna seee!!!!!!

 

[Skrimpy]

Let me get something straight, everything I read (I am VERY new to this) told me the best place to start was in county history records and old newspaper articles. Now everyone is saying they make good yarn, but no facts.... WHICH IS IT?? I'd hate to think that this forums leads all newbies on a wild goose chase before telling them the real deal...this is an 11 mile hike through sand, water, brush, and yeah...some quicksand (a lot for my late 30's body). I don't mind the exercise, but you guys are contradicting yourselves I say this in a light hearted way, but if I'm busting my A$$ chasing a childrens folklore story.......well, you know.

I wouldn't say everything that comes out of newspapers and county records would make good yarn. I would take every story with a grain of salt and think about it critically. For example...if I read a story about people coming from miles around to visit a picnic area along a stream with a swimming hole, I would say..."Great! Were is this place?!" If I read a story that gives details like hoisting a box up in the air, the mechanism failing and the box rolling down a hill into quicksand never to be seen again...well then I would say "Who cooked up this story?" But I'm not saying I wouldn't excavate that quicksand pit (if I had an excavator)....just to make sure.

 

[ScubaFinder]

Awww man, no good ending to report on this one. Loaded up a freinds john boat a few months back and put in at the Wichita River North of Henrietta...it made a quick trip to the mouth of the Red River. The plan was to search for an old trading post that used to be there day one, and then head down the Red River to the silver site. We hunted the rest of the day for the trading post, and set up camp just before dark. Didn't find much at the trading post site, just some nails, bottle caps, and small iron pieces. About 1AM a HUGE thunderstorm came rollong through, Lots of lightening, and both rivers started rising before the storm even got to us. We were going to have to relocate camp anyways, so we high-tailed it back to the truck and headed home...I'm ashamed to admit that I haven't been back.

I did get ahold of a survey of the Red River Valley done in 1997 that showed the deepest quick sand to be about 15 feet deep. I now have a JW Fishers Pulse 8X pulse induction MD...some day I will return and lower it into the quicksand and see. I had both cameras with me to photograph the tree carving, and GPS to mark the location, Side imaging sonar on the boat, etc. It was partially the $$ amount of electronics we had with us that prompted us to retreat.

Someday i'll go back, but I just returned from shipwreck hunting in Belize and am preparing to go to East Florida for more of the same next week. I'm starting to prefer areas where I KNOW there are gold and silver coins...call me silly. This is a great treasure tale, but only found in ONE county history, and ONE newspaper article (about the botched recovery). Compared to an entire fleet of Spanish treasure galleons KNOWN to be on Florida's coast, it just doesn't compare

Jason

 

[shellback]

ya right, quick sand? I thought that stuff was just a made up story tale? there really is quick sand? did you try probing it to maybe see how deep it was? if you found this and the story goes like you say then you just found yourself some treasure (need any help) hardy har har

Good luck with it I mean it, it makes me wanna chase down some of my leads right now you bastard lucky stiff

 

[ScubaFinder]

Quick sand is indeed real...it's actually just sand that has a really high water content, and yes, you will sink into it. However it's not the death trap as it has been portrayed in the movies. I have stepped into several patches while probing around the red river, you basically just step back out of it as you are sinking, and most of it is not really that deep anyhow. There is some truth to "the more you struggle, the tighter it grips you" tales, but I haven't found any that I couldn't get out of here in Texas.

We have about 5 county histories at my library, and none of the others even mention the silver bar story. I've searched through some of the Oklahoma histories as well, and nothing. I'll still go check the site again, but my hopes are not nearly as high as they were after learning more, hunting more, and researching more. It was my first 'hunt' so I have to follow it through to completion some day Probably nothing, I think it's "treasure" was that it got my blood pressure up, and the treasure bug has been with me ever since. When they tell you "sometimes the treasure is in the hunt', I now know what they mean Nowadays I get my thrill rolling off the back of a boat in full scuba gear, detector in hand, and the lure of Spanish gold below me. There's a hunt made for every hunter!

Good luck in your quest!

Jason

 

[Blind.In.Texas]

Reading through my county history, I stumbled onto a story of some Indians that got a settlement payment from the US Govt. in Silver, the four were on their way back when the civil war broke out (I think) and with all the activity, they decided to bury it. They marked the location with a tree carving, and it was never recovered.

Later in an old newspaper article, I found a story of a kid who was out roaming around, and found the dang tree! He tried to dig, but noticed some Indians watching him, and ran home. His father hired an excavation company and they dug up a large wooden box...the story goes that when they were hoisting it up out of the hole, it fell and rolled down the hill into some quicksand and sank, and was never recovered. Sounds pretty far fetched to me....

The newspaper detailed the location pretty well ( in miles and direction from a county road that still exists today). Well, having nothing to do today, I went on a quest...and I found the tree carving. It had a large depression on the river side where a hole had obviously been dug some years ago, and get this, there is quick sand at the bottom of the hill that the tree sits on!

What do you guys think the odds are that it's still down there in the quick sand. Is there an inexpensive device that I could build or rent and drop down into the quicksand? It is said the some of this stuff is 90 feet deep around the river and I believe it. Seems like you'd have to land right on top of it to get a hit anyways, since repositioning the detector would be impossible. Maybe i should just dredge the area with a hook or something blindly?

What do you guys think? I'm new to this, and for all I know this is an old tale that was never true...somebody carved the tree afterwards to fool guys like me (allthough it looks like it was done many years ago). Should I invest any time trying to figure out if it's still there? If it is still there, how the heck would you get it out.

Jason

You know, the story of the settlement could be true. The Native Americans watching could also be true. Take this for what it is worth. Creative people who think in advance fabricate devices to suit themselves and their purposes. I don't think quicksand just appears "any ol' where". A story is just that. A story. People manipulate for all kinds of reasons. If the treasure really existed, then, the story was told to either keep people from searching for it, because of quicksands nature, or it was never found and the quicksand puts an end to it for most people because of its nature. Afterall, quicksand is a bottomless pit right? Well, that's what everyone of reading used to believe when we were kids. Probably from the old Tarzan movies. The only thing I can really tell you is that first hand accounts from the person who put your treasure to rest can be accurate and even then that is debateable. Just hunt for it. I don't know exactly where you live, but, I just can't imagine Natives getting any love from the government back in those days. Maybe they did. I say "Get going!!!" and bring us back some pics!!

If you can go un-detected, then, a dredge with lots of suction would probably do the trick. It is just sand, right? Just drop in the hose and pump in some water to reduce the viscosity of the sand. Suck away. I don't see wh hte process would be all that difficult. Lagistics on the the other hnad may be sort of tedious. GL and HH



Laater...

 

[stefen]

As the saying goes, there is always some truth to a rumor.

Since too much time has passed to interrigate the players in this problem, any further historic paper research, will most likely, not provide adequate or conclusive information.

The only way to ferret out the degree of truth of the rumor is by thorough onsite investigation.

Finding one single silver coin may be considered (by some) to be an anomoly, however, finding two or more coins will definitely provide a sound conclusion for your efforts, and put the rumor to rest.

Best of luck.

 

[ScubaFinder]

The location of the area makes it difficult to persue for me, not to mention I've been speninding as much time as possible in Florida bringing up silver from a known location (see avatar pic). The spot is 13 miles up stream from the nearest road crossing on the Red River (Hwy. 79). You can put a small boat in at the Wichita River at F.M. 1171 and go downstream to the Red River, then another 4 miles or so downstream to the site of the tree carving. The tree carving is on the north side of the river, and is one of the few trees for miles that actually hangs out over the river...you can't miss it. If someone else has the a 4 wheeler or a jon boat that can go through extremely shallow water, go check it out!

I never made it there with a GPS, but if I ever go back, I'll mark the location and post the coordinates. After looking at the site, it won't be a cakewalk getting the silver up if it indeed exists. The only plus to the whole thing is that the location is so remote that you could get away with just about anything recovering it. The land belongs to the State of Oklahoma, not a private individual, so I'm sure there is some red tape you'd have to get through to recover it legally. I'm not much for covert operations myself, I prefer to do things on the up and up. Once I discovered that it was state owned land, I figured anything I found would go to the state anyways, so I pretty much stopped thinking about it.

Seriously, if someone lives in the area and wants to go for it, PM me and give you all the details I have, which aren't many. Find a Wichita County History book (there is only one) and read the story, it gives you the location with miles from Cache Creek, and tells you a lot about the location. I matched up the directions they gave with a current map, and got a good idea of where it was and then literally plotted my course there by counting bends in the river...I got within 100 yards of the tree that way. When I saw the one tree overhanging a big level sand pit, I just kinda knew it was the one.

Read this thread and you'll see why the lure of KNOWN silver can out way the possibility of silver with a lot of red tape wrapped around it.

http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,52846.0.html

Jason

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

=.HI Bakergeol.

Silver could simply not occur in the sedimentary environment of the region- no question about it- just solid proof.
***************

Sorry for being soo late ------ This is from a famous Ag mine in Mexico, it's vein struture was composed of sand cemented together with Silver ==Sandsone?

Tropical Tramp

 

[Blind.In.Texas]

The location of the area makes it difficult to persue for me, not to mention I've been speninding as much time as possible in Florida bringing up silver from a known location (see avatar pic). The spot is 13 miles up stream from the nearest road crossing on the Red River (Hwy. 79). You can put a small boat in at the Wichita River at F.M. 1171 and go downstream to the Red River, then another 4 miles or so downstream to the site of the tree carving. The tree carving is on the north side of the river, and is one of the few trees for miles that actually hangs out over the river...you can't miss it. If someone else has the a 4 wheeler or a jon boat that can go through extremely shallow water, go check it out!

I never made it there with a GPS, but if I ever go back, I'll mark the location and post the coordinates. After looking at the site, it won't be a cakewalk getting the silver up if it indeed exists. The only plus to the whole thing is that the location is so remote that you could get away with just about anything recovering it. The land belongs to the State of Oklahoma, not a private individual, so I'm sure there is some red tape you'd have to get through to recover it legally. I'm not much for covert operations myself, I prefer to do things on the up and up. Once I discovered that it was state owned land, I figured anything I found would go to the state anyways, so I pretty much stopped thinking about it.

Seriously, if someone lives in the area and wants to go for it, PM me and give you all the details I have, which aren't many. Find a Wichita County History book (there is only one) and read the story, it gives you the location with miles from Cache Creek, and tells you a lot about the location. I matched up the directions they gave with a current map, and got a good idea of where it was and then literally plotted my course there by counting bends in the river...I got within 100 yards of the tree that way. When I saw the one tree overhanging a big level sand pit, I just kinda knew it was the one.

Read this thread and you'll see why the lure of KNOWN silver can out way the possibility of silver with a lot of red tape wrapped around it.

http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,52846.0.html

Jason

I know a couple of folks that actually live in that area. Between the 3 of us I am sure something covert could happen. The guys I know are up to just about anything. Especially money. Quicksand, of course, adds a whole new level of difficulty. (Diving gear made for quicksand ?) Sounds like a lo-o-o-t of fun and hard work.

Laater...

 

[ScubaFinder]

Actually this particular point hasn't moved much. I looked at a map from 1865 and it was very close to what the current maps show. We did have a very large flood that could have mixed things up a bit. There is still quick sand directly under the tree as the story stated too. It was deeper than the largest tree branch I could find to probe with (around 8 foot). The quicksand is a fairly large patch too, which made me think dredging or coffer dams would be futile. It's only about 20 feet from the waters edge, so backfilling would also be a problem.

If somebody spent the time, they could get a GPS lock on the area, and contact local land owners to gain closer access to the spot. I'm just not willing to spend the time to load up a boat with everything I'd need, move UPstream 13 miles, with several spots where you have to drag the boat across 4" deep water, just to find out IF there is still anything there. I'm more inclined to go search around rock crossing or near the old Coffee's Station sites. There was also an indian encampment on the Wichita River that had a trading post where older spanish silver dollars have been found along with arrowheads and primitive tools. Couple that with the old Civil War encampment at the falls on the Wichita River (4 miles from my house) and I seriously doubt i'll ever hike or row up the Red River again.

The areas around here are a wealth of possibilities, more than I will hunt in my lifetime, and there aren't a lot of detectorists around to compete with either. All of these things combined have sort of moved this story near the bottom of my list. Time is short, and if I have an entire weekend to burn, you'll find me under 30 feet of seawater exploring the San Miguel de Archangel off of Florida's East Coast. It's a lot less work, and always produces silver.

I wish somebody with the time and equipment would go check this one out, it's an interesting mystery that I do wish was solved. I just don't think it's going to be ME who solves it. Next time I'm at the library, I'll photocopy the story from my county history and post it here, then anyone who wants too can start with the same info I had. This my first hunt, so if I found the location, any of you experienced guys could.

Jason

 

[Badger Bart]

"Something about this story just isnt making sense"

After reading all the posts, it appears that the obvious has been missed.

1.The tree with the carving. The carving most likely isn't going to be there after 140 years. How old is the tree? How wide is the tree? What kind of tree is it? I'd be willing to bet it wasn't around during the Civil War, or even the Viet Nam war.

2. How were the Indians moving the large wooden box?

3. Just how did daddy get the excavating equipment to the tree? Huey helicopter or C130 and parachutes? River barge? Steamboat? Someone is jerking your chain. I don't mean to sound cynical, it just isn't the least bit logical, given the facts so far. HH, play it safe if you go looking for this one.

Bart

 

[ScubaFinder]

The carving most likely isn't going to be there after 140 years.

Well, then I must have been hallucinating....the tree was an Oak, with a trunk almost 24" across, I suppose I could cut it down and count the rings so we could know how long it had been alive.

How were the Indians moving the large wooden box?

Maybe on a mule like the spaniards have been doing since the 1500's? The Wichita Co. history didn't say how many indians there were, or what type of livestock they had with them, but I'm guessing at least a few horses.

Someone is jerking your chain.

Must be those damn historians who write the county histories around here, and those dang newspaper reporters. All I know is that I read the story, looked at maps from 1865 and the present, made an estimated guess as to where the location was, and found a tree with a carving exactly as the story mentioned, with a pool of quicksand under the tree. Must have just been a coincidence.

I'm not saying there is definitely a box of silver under the quicksand, but you have to admit those are some fairly compelling "coincidences". I'm skeptical enough to not waste another weekend trying to get to the bottom of this one, but I haven't ruled it out as someone jerking my chain either. If we were all skeptical, nobody would ever find a cache because they'd never look. I live in the middle of nowhere, and this is the only buried treasure tale I can find around here...so it got some attention from me. If all the facts were straightforward and without speculation, we'd find them all easily.

My treasure on this one was the hunt, and the research, and the hair standing up on the back of my neck when I first saw the carving. I actually looked over my shoulder expecting to see indians watching me from the trees. From that moment on, I was a die hard treasure hunter...so true or false, it hooked me, and that's a good thing.

Now I spend my time pulling up Spanish silver from shipwrecks of the 1600's. I do have to admit that I find it much more enjoyable than dragging a boat up a muddy river in search of a "possible" treasure. That said, I wouldn't trade the experience of my first real hunt for 10 boxes of silver, so all in all I consider it a success.

Happy hunting, don't let that skepticism keep you from your next big one!

Jason

 

[Badger Bart]

"Now I spend my time pulling up Spanish silver from shipwrecks of the 1600's."

Right.

 

[bobberdown]

The following is a paragraph of a 1861 news paper story I have researching on Civil War Sites in Missouri.
The Indians continued to visit the country in the fall and winter, long after the settlements of the pale-faces had rendered it too crowded to be congenial to their taste. It is believed by the more credulous old settlers that they still return covertly. There is a tradition that they have an enormous treasure of silver hidden away under the ground somewhere, to which they annually return to replenish their purses.
So your story could have a twinkle of facts to it. But as time flowes by some stories about lost treasures grow.
We have bubbling sand springs here. The water flows through the sand causing the sand to bubble, and any thing that is dropped on the sand will sink. The one I have worked on to recover a few coins (Which the action of the sand has wore down to nothing.) Is 12' deep. It is liquid enough to scoop the bottom with a 1/8 mesh hardware cloth basket. The lime stone enriched water here will eat a coin up in very little time. All of these factors you have to take into consideration before you spend a lot of $$$ on the venture of recovery.
But Good Luck!

 

[TreasureTales]

Just got down to the post by Badger Bart and saw that he asked the same question I had in mind...how old is the tree?

Does anyone have the US Treasure Atlas for Texas or Oklahoma? Is this story in one of those volumes? If so, maybe there is a slightly different version of the story that would provide a little different/more info.

This is a great story, I hope somebody can debunk it or prove it soon. Good luck.

 

[ScubaFinder]

Bart, was that a "right on" or a "yeah right, whatever"? If you don't believe me you are welcome to tag along sometime.

Here I am getting ready to jump in...


Hunting the bottom over the wreck of the San Miguel de ArchAngel - a spanish treasure Avisio that went down in 1659 near Jupiter Florida


Spanish 8 Reale in my hand, after I pulled it from the bottom. This one was minted in Potosi, Mexico n 1655.


A days work...


Spoils of the weekend...


Any more questions