Platinum Treasure!!! One Troy Once!!! Unique!!!

UnderMiner

Silver Member
Jul 27, 2014
3,818
9,726
New York City
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2
Detector(s) used
Minelab Excalibur II, Ace 250
Primary Interest:
All Treasure Hunting
Final Edit 1/30/2015 : The test results are in: http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/general-discussion/448872-platinum-fork-test-results.html

I found this fork a few days ago along with some other less expensive treasures (mostly various grades of silver). Completed my research today and have come to the stunning conclusion that this is in fact... a 95% pure Platinum fork - solid Platinum with a gold plating - made by Cartier. This very well may be one of the most expensive pieces of cutlery in existence. Considering it weights 30.9 grams (1/5th of a gram shy of 1 Troy Ounce) I think it may very well be the single largest piece of platinum ever posted to this website. It's certainly the biggest piece of platinum I've ever found! I'm still shaking from the rush!! :headbang:

DSC08636.JPGDSC08638.JPG

Here's the story. Over the past week I've been pounding that old site by the shore again and again but this time using the new ExCal-II. It was a bit of a learning curve as I'd only used my new ExCal-II once before this. What a difference. The sandy/salty soil was no problem for the ExCal-II and the deep signals were coming in loud and clear. Ended up finding a ton more artifacts (silver, copper, iron, more globs of lead) - all much deeper finds than my other detector was able to handle. No more 18th century pepper pots unfortunately (I was hoping for a trifecta). I did however find, among other things, a sterling silver mechanical pencil (Victorian-age from the looks of it), an 80% silver olive fork, three hand-carved sterling spoons, a pewter dish, some broken pieces of porcelain, glass, and even what looks like to be a piece of an old shoe. I will post all these finds and more later in one massive post once I'm sure I've unearthed everything.

Anyway, this post is about the crowning jewel of the finds so far - the Platinum fork. I dug it up shortly after finding the sterling mechanical pencil. When I first saw the platinum fork it was all black just like all the silver in that area. I rubbed the dirt off (I know, I'm still kicking myself for doing such a stupid thing) and it revealed a golden luster - I assumed it to be a gold plated fork of either silver or some other cheaper metal. Into the bag it went and the hunt continued. At the end of each day I would clean and photograph my finds. I noticed the "950" hallmark during this time a few days ago.

The "950" is stamped in an "upside-down shield". I first saw this mark when I examined the fork the day I found it. I assumed it to be a sterling mark for 95% silver. I checked online a few times but really I had pretty much concluded it just had to be a type of silver. Today I did some in depth research and discovered that there is absolutely no sterling mark that resembles this hallmark. I did further research of other precious metal hallmarks besides silver and was stunned - the mark was listed as one of 4 types of platinum hallmarks. According to my research this platinum hallmark represents the second highest purity of platinum - 95%!! There is a crown above the "950", a little symbol that looks like an "R" directly above the "950", and a little "M" to the right of the "950". On the right side of the fork it says "Made in France" and on the left side it says "Cartier". There is also what appears to be some kind of etched serial number, possibly "1040". The piece weights 30.9 grams - almost exactly one troy ounce making it worth just about $1,200 in melt value.

The unknown: How old is this piece? I've had trouble dating this piece as hallmark charts by Cartier don't appear online in detail.

One thing is for certain Cartier is not known for cranking out platinum cutlery. I have a feeling this may have been a custom made piece. If so it may be unimaginably rare and expensive. My feeling is that it is worth way over its melt value of $1.2K - perhaps its worth $5k+ who knows? I will have to get it professionally appraised. Until then the hunt continues!!! :D Arg! Now with all this new swag I feel like a true pirate! :skullflag: :blackbeard: :laughing7:

Edit: Okay, it's officially confirmed. What I initially thought was an "R" stamp is in fact a "PT" stamp, "PT" means Platinum! "PT 950 M" is a high-strength Platinum alloy. The M stands for the 5% other metal added with the Platinum most likely Ruthenium! I'm on cloud 9 right now! :D

Platinum stamp along with hallmark chart:
Fork Hallmark.jpgappendix2_1.jpg

Cartier markings along the sides:
DSC08643.JPGDSC08646.JPG

Fork on my scale, note 30.9 gram weight:
DSC08647.JPG
 

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Upvote 53
I'm certain I will find more treasures in that site, I am certain. And when I do I will share the finds with you all. Forgive my novice nature at this, up until recently I've really not taken treasure hunting too seriously.

From just reading what you wrote....If I was you and finding these items it would be time to start taking it kinda serious. The members here do. Be a shame to get into such historic and possibly important items and not.Most will record even a single bullet or coin with an in-situ. It is not required it is just what people do. That would have removed many of the initial post. Congratulations on the fork. It looks like you have dug some other really nice items with it also?
 

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as an fyi for Underminer, check out the link for this sold ebay listing. Unfortunately,the pics are down, but the text is revealing. For anyone too lazy to click, here's the description:
UP FOR AUCTION
VINTAGE
CARTIER
STERLING SILVER
950
GRAPEFRUIT SPOON
MARKED IN THE BOWL 950
MARKED ON THE SIDES OF THE HANDLE
MADE IN FRANCE
CARTIER
SPOON IS APPROX. 5.5"
TOTAL WEIGHT
32.6 GRAMS
1.1 TROY OUNCES
To me, it sounds very similar to the fork, in the assay number (950), size of the utensil, the weight, the hallmarks and placement of the hallmarks.

Vintage Cartier Sterling Silver 950 Grapefruit Spoons | eBay

She also calls it "sterling" which 950 isn't even if it was made of silver.
My first thought is that she sold a solid platinum spoon for $26 not knowing what she had.
But without pics of the hallmark we can never know for certain.
Also, my piece isn't stamped "950" it is stamped "PT 950 M".
Simply put without pics we can't tell. Thanks for doing some research though, I will be having this piece professionally assessed in the coming days.
 

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"She also calls it "sterling" which 950 isn't even if it was made of silver. "

Actually Underminer... 950 is a silver mark...
As well as 980 etc...
this is the "parts per 1000th" of purity.
JFYI.
 

Congrats on your fabulous finds! :icon_flower: :occasion18::wav::occasion18: :icon_flower:

I'm glad the rude reactions have been put to a stop. Please stick with t-net as it's been wonderful fun seeing your recent finds. The naysayers need to practice patience!
On site photos are wonderful but not required & may slow down the momentum of your dig if you're hunting intensively. Have Fun! :icon_thumright: Andi
 

Hey didn't you find these in the trash last year?? Man ur are a lucky guy!!!!
Big congrats. .
George
 

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For whatever it is worth, I dropped a 950 platinum earring back into a saltwater aquarium and forgot about it until I recently moved. When I cleaned out the aquarium and found it last year, I was suprised to see a little yellowish staining on what I thought should never tarnish... I have a metal buyer friend who uses XRF to verify metals and I took it to him to test and it indeed was 950 platinum...
 

It is a very excellent find, but when faced with 1 of these 2 options; "it's made of .950 platinum, despite no clear documentation that Cartier made platinum cutlery" and "It's made of .950 silver, for which extensive documentation exists", I must place my bets on the more likely option.

From the lips (fingertips) of an expert on fine silver (http://www.justanswer.com/antiques/7rxi0-silver-sauce-boat-attached-stand-marked-cartier.html):

French hallmarks are incredibly complicated, but I am almost certain this is a silversmith's obus or export mark and would be this shape, like a little house. (The normal French silversmith mark is lozenge shaped).
Here's a picture of an obus export mark:

33lpo35.jpg

The number at the bottom is the silver purity (in this example 950/1000 or .950 which is typical for French export silver and the letters and device (the AD and the little bird in this example) are the initials and logo of the silversmith.

...you might be able read the initials on yours and I might be able to tell you who the silversmith was who made this for Cartier. It is only a curiosity, so will not increase or decrease the value of the piece, as we know that an item carrying the Cartier name is top notch already.

The house shaped obus mark came into use from 1884 and most French export silver was marked "Made in France" after the 1891 McKinley Tariff Act in the USA required imported items to be marked with the country of origin.

The other numbers (the 41 and 1884) are what are referred to as "scratch marks", hand inscribed numbers that are sometimes a record of the silver weight and sometimes retailer stock codes.

The 30.9 gram weight seems reasonable for a silver item of that size, considering how "thick" it is (the shaft between the handle and business end seems closer to square than thin and flat like many silver pieces of cutlery). Also, being found covered in black crud, which upon cleaning revealed attractive patches of blue/gold patina/tarnish seems to correspond with my experience with silver tableware or old, high-grade silver coins.

So anyway, I genuinely do hope that it is made of platinum and greatly appreciate you sharing this and other excellent pieces with us. Hopefully further inquiry with experienced experts will determine the objective truth regarding the fork.
 

Hey didn't you find these in the trash last year?? Man ur are a lucky guy!!!!
Big congrats. .
George

I just looked one of your threads from October where you found amazing stuff in a dump! And you say that is a TYPICAL dump find for you? Wow!

Stop wasting your time detecting and dump diving and just start buying Powerball tickets. Or at the very least quit your day job and do this full time. You are one lucky fella.
 

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I just looked at this thread from October where you found amazing stuff! And you say that is a TYPICAL dump find for you?

Stop wasting your time detecting and dump diving and just start buying Powerball tickets. Or at the very least quit your day job and do this full time. You are one lucky fella.

Lol...Right..Just go put it all on black..
 

It is a very excellent find, but when faced with 1 of these 2 options; "it's made of .950 platinum, despite no clear documentation that Cartier made platinum cutlery" and "It's made of .950 silver, for which extensive documentation exists", I must place my bets on the more likely option.

From the lips (fingertips) of an expert on fine silver (http://www.justanswer.com/antiques/7rxi0-silver-sauce-boat-attached-stand-marked-cartier.html):



The 30.9 gram weight seems reasonable for a silver item of that size, considering how "thick" it is (the shaft between the handle and business end seems closer to square than thin and flat like many silver pieces of cutlery). Also, being found covered in black crud, which upon cleaning revealed attractive patches of blue/gold patina/tarnish seems to correspond with my experience with silver tableware or old, high-grade silver coins.

So anyway, I genuinely do hope that it is made of platinum and greatly appreciate you sharing this and other excellent pieces with us. Hopefully further inquiry with experienced experts will determine the objective truth regarding the fork.


I agree...
"She also calls it "sterling" which 950 isn't even if it was made of silver. "

Actually Underminer... 950 is a silver mark...
As well as 980 etc...
this is the "parts per 1000th" of purity.
JFYI.

I pointed this out...
It was the "really heavy" comment that stuck with me...
beings he has found silver cutlery as pictured herein...

The patina is definatly a sterling looking patina ...
not a patina that I have witnessed on platinum.
 

It was the "really heavy" comment that stuck with me...

Same here, but for me the question was largely settled by looking at how "thick" the whole piece is (and thus less surface area, which might provide the illusion of greater density relative to thin and large surface area pieces like saltshakers and whatnot), though a volumetric displacement (SG) test in a 100cc (or smaller if it would fit) graduated cylinder would completely settle it in my opinion. There's a big enough difference between 1.5 cubic centimeters and 3 cubic centimeters that user error or the +/- 5% variance in laboratory nalgene or glassware accuracy wouldn't be an issue. Anyway, I have a pretty good visual memory and can recall the picture (mysteriously deleted for some reason) of the fork-in-hand, which looks about right unless that hand is way smaller than average. The page 5 pics of it juxtaposed with other silver items looks right to me as well. With Platinum being more than twice as dense as silver, I have difficulty accepting that a piece of such size and thickness would weigh less than a troy ounce if made of "The only metal fit for Kings", though I remain hesitantly optimistic.

Even if "only silver", a Cartier fork like that, and in such unusually good condition is a special find. Certainly far better than the nasty, corroded, and rather pedestrian sterling spoons I dig in bottle dumps or find in creeks.
 

Same here, but for me the question was largely settled by looking at how "thick" the whole piece is (and thus less surface area, which might provide the illusion of greater density relative to thin and large surface area pieces like saltshakers and whatnot), though a volumetric displacement (SG) test in a 100cc (or smaller if it would fit) graduated cylinder would completely settle it in my opinion. There's a big enough difference between 1.5 cubic centimeters and 3 cubic centimeters that user error or the +/- 5% variance in laboratory nalgene or glassware accuracy wouldn't be an issue. Anyway, I have a pretty good visual memory and can recall the picture (mysteriously deleted for some reason) of the fork-in-hand, which looks about right unless that hand is way smaller than average. The page 5 pics of it juxtaposed with other silver items looks right to me as well. With Platinum being more than twice as dense as silver, I have difficulty accepting that a piece of such size and thickness would weigh less than a troy ounce if made of "The only metal fit for Kings", though I remain hesitantly optimistic.

Even if "only silver", a Cartier fork like that, and in such unusually good condition is a special find. Certainly far better than the nasty, corroded, and rather pedestrian sterling spoons I dig in bottle dumps or find in creeks.

Agreed.
 

can we get a better close up of that platinum hallmark? you may have posted it already.
 

It is a very excellent find, but when faced with 1 of these 2 options; "it's made of .950 platinum, despite no clear documentation that Cartier made platinum cutlery" and "It's made of .950 silver, for which extensive documentation exists", I must place my bets on the more likely option.

From the lips (fingertips) of an expert on fine silver (http://www.justanswer.com/antiques/7rxi0-silver-sauce-boat-attached-stand-marked-cartier.html):



The 30.9 gram weight seems reasonable for a silver item of that size, considering how "thick" it is (the shaft between the handle and business end seems closer to square than thin and flat like many silver pieces of cutlery). Also, being found covered in black crud, which upon cleaning revealed attractive patches of blue/gold patina/tarnish seems to correspond with my experience with silver tableware or old, high-grade silver coins.

So anyway, I genuinely do hope that it is made of platinum and greatly appreciate you sharing this and other excellent pieces with us. Hopefully further inquiry with experienced experts will determine the objective truth regarding the fork.

the link gives us the real gen on this fork, as Hemingway used to call valuable intelligence or information. Imho, it is definitive. Of course, testing the metal, by specific gravity or acid, would seal the lid on it.

This is a great forum for finding answers, thanks, plumbata for an excellent link. And this doesn't take anything away from Underminer who was kind enough to share his amazing recent finds with us, including this one.
 

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This is a fun thread.... :)
 

This is a fun thread.... :)

actually this is a thread in Todays Finds, Not General Discussion or What is it.
So several members here are Pushing their Luck which
won't hold out forever :(
 

It appears a couple like to "poke the bear" so to speak..

Posted From My $50 Tablet....
 

I think I could tell you why you are out of bussiness,,you were probaly calling the cops on all your customers wanting to know if you were buying stolen stuff...After you admit that it is real you will most likly fuss if some one sticks a gold fork in your leg.
I was in the business of buying and selling precious metals for over 20 years with my own store....
And have been detecting since the late 70's...
This stuff sure does not look like dug material?
I hope your fork is truly Platinum...
Are you going to call Cartier?
They can tell us all for sure...
I am praying for you :)
 

Now you need to go get the knife and spoon! :thumbsup:
 

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