Platform pipe - Southwest Georgia

[GaRebel1861]

This is one of the best finds that I have and it started off as just another day at the creek. Yesterday, I went with my wife and daughter along with my sister and her husband to cool off from this 100+ degree heat we are having here in Southwest Georgia. Shortly after we got in the water, which was less than knee deep, my sister pointed out two flint tools she spotted laying on the creek bed. These finds told me that there was likely points in the area so I started looking as well. I began running my fingers through the sand and finding pottery shards. After I worked that area with little luck, I decided to move down stream and try another spot. I had to pull some limbs out of the way to get a new area cleaned. Thats when this pipe came up. I did not find any points but thats o.k. with this taking thier place! This will likely be the center piece in my collection for quite some time. Any thoughts or comments are welcomed!! I've also posted this find on "Todays Finds as well.

 

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[IllinoisDug]

What the hell is that thing? An alien?? Kinda spooky.

 

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[RGINN]

Very cool and congratulations on the banner. An interesting piece. I thought it was a parrot. My wife is Mexican and I had some of that part of the family look at it. Her family leans more to their Indian roots than the Spanish. They thought it was a parrot. They thought it greatly resembled things they have seen coming out of Oaxaca. Those folks from Oaxaca are way more different and not your typical mexican. The Oaxacans I know have no Spanish blood. This is not to say this is a modern piece or some sort of a tourist item at all. Lots of trade took place, more so than folks imagine, in pre-Columbian America. Hope you have it checked out and keep us posted.

 

[Charl]

You might want to have that thing looked at by a local archaeologist who specializes in pipes and pipe production. In my opinion it's not consistent with any prehistoric art that I have seen from anywhere in the US. Sure, there are new discoveries every day that make me go hmmm, and I'm not saying it's not legit. However, it could have been tossed in the creek 50 years ago as an after thought from someone's Mexican vacation too. If it's legit it deserves to be studied because it's a completely new form of art for this part of the world.

Hippy

I agree that it should be looked at by a reputable authenticator to see if it's ancient, or, as Hippy suggests, someone familiar with pipe styles from Georgia. There was no doubt trade in ancient times, but I would want to eliminate modern tourist item just to put my mind at ease regarding its' origin in time and culture.

 

[naturegirl]

I was hoping this would get posted in this forum. Even if it's an old trade item, what a find! I hope it isn't modern either, and can I ask why you think it's Creek? don't get me wrong, I know nothing, I'm just here to learn, and curious. Congradulations on the Banner! It's a great find! I hope you share what you find out about it!!

happy hunting
lisa

 

[Broken knee]

Incredible find mister !!! HH
Broken Knee

 

[Gold Maven]

That is an awesome find !
It's size is unique, it looks like a pipe for a giant.
Was this close to a bridge? I hope it is authentic, but alot of things get thrown into creeks.

 

[steve71]

thats a find of a lifetime congrats

 

[Get-the-point]

I agree that it should be looked at by a reputable authenticator to see if it's ancient, or, as Hippy suggests, someone familiar with pipe styles from Georgia. There was no doubt trade in ancient times, but I would want to eliminate modern tourist item just to put my mind at ease regarding its' origin in time and culture.

I agree!!! You really need to rule all possibilities out and find the truth. If that is a authentic piece it is truly amazing. The problem i'm having with it is the eagle is the most sacred bird for the Native American Culture. Every authentic pipe that I have seen the eagle is more prominent and almost all face away. The symbolism on this piece is not in the known Native American Symbols. The Eagle praying to the maker of the pipe does not make sense. The Eagle was medicine used to convey prayer to the creator. To be facing the maker and praying to him is not right. It would have taken an Indian with no respect for the Eagle to do this. If by chance it was made to bring power and wisdom to the maker it would have been a idol form. Meaning it would have just been facing the maker and not praying to the maker. The eagle does not pray. The eagle is the messenger of the creator. THE PIPE– Great Symbols Series @ Theosophy Trust ....... Southeastern Ceremonial Complex - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ............. I'll post more information tomorrow.......Hope this helps and I really do hope that it is the real deal..........................GTP

 

[Aleisters]

I agree!!! You really need to rule all possibilities out and find the truth. If that is a authentic piece it is truly amazing. The problem i'm having with it is the eagle is the most sacred bird for the Native American Culture. Every authentic pipe that I have seen the eagle is more prominent and almost all face away. The symbolism on this piece is not in the known Native American Symbols. The Eagle praying to the maker of the pipe does not make sense. The Eagle was medicine used to convey prayer to the creator. To be facing the maker and praying to him is not right. It would have taken an Indian with no respect for the Eagle to do this. If by chance it was made to bring power and wisdom to the maker it would have been a idol form. Meaning it would have just been facing the maker and not praying to the maker. The eagle does not pray. The eagle is the messenger of the creator. THE PIPE– Great Symbols Series @ Theosophy Trust ....... Southeastern Ceremonial Complex - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ............. I'll post more information tomorrow.......Hope this helps and I really do hope that it is the real deal..........................GTP

Ive been a long time stalker here and decided to chime in on this one. I dont believe it is a parrot or an eagle, the bird is a Turkey Vulture. I know it looks like the bird is praying but if you look closely you will see it is clutching a human head between its talons. I have handled two southern pipes over the years with similar designs (bird with human head).....Southern Death Cult. If you Google (images) southern death cult pipe you will see another similar pipe. I dont think it is possible to kill this one by design only. Great find!

 

[Neanderthal]

This piece raises a lot of eyebrows. I would highly recommend that you have it TL (Thermoluminescence) dated, if it's made of clay. That will give you an answer more definitive than an authenticator can, and it's not a terribly expensive process nowadays.

 

[joshuaream]

This piece raises a lot of eyebrows. I would highly recommend that you have it TL (Thermoluminescence) dated, if it's made of clay. That will give you an answer more definitive than an authenticator can, and it's not a terribly expensive process nowadays.

Along with what Hippy and Grim said, this is probably the most sound opinion given in this thread.

 

[GaRebel1861]

Ive been a long time stalker here and decided to chime in on this one. I dont believe it is a parrot or an eagle, the bird is a Turkey Vulture. I know it looks like the bird is praying but if you look closely you will see it is clutching a human head between its talons. I have handled two southern pipes over the years with similar designs (bird with human head).....Southern Death Cult. If you Google (images) southern death cult pipe you will see another similar pipe. I dont think it is possible to kill this one by design only. Great find!

You are correct about the vulture and the human head. Since this pipe was posted, it has been looked at by several people with an acceptable level of education and expertise who have all said the same thing.

 

[Get-the-point]

Ive been a long time stalker here and decided to chime in on this one. I dont believe it is a parrot or an eagle, the bird is a Turkey Vulture. I know it looks like the bird is praying but if you look closely you will see it is clutching a human head between its talons. I have handled two southern pipes over the years with similar designs (bird with human head).....Southern Death Cult. If you Google (images) southern death cult pipe you will see another similar pipe. I dont think it is possible to kill this one by design only. Great find!

I looked at that pipe you stated and I agree it does look like a vulture. I did not see the clutched face in the image until you made mention of it. The only thing i'm having a problem with is the fact that almost all the effigies face away from the pipe stem hole.................either way i still think it is amazing coming from a river bed. GA i know you have had people look at it, but having it looked at by someone who is capable of doing forensic style authentication as Neanderthal suggested would eliminate doubt and properly document this piece. Just a thought..........................GTP

 

[GaRebel1861]

I looked at that pipe you stated and I agree it does look like a vulture. I did not see the clutched face in the image until you made mention of it. The only thing i'm having a problem with is the fact that almost all the effigies face away from the pipe stem hole.................either way i still think it is amazing coming from a river bed. GA i know you have had people look at it, but having it looked at by someone who is capable of doing forensic style authentication as Neanderthal suggested would eliminate doubt and properly document this piece. Just a thought..........................GTP

There is a piece missing from the front or "tail" section and the back legs. Maybe another effigy? I agree that it is odd that the bird is facing the other direction. I am very interested in having tests on the pipe. Any suggestions on someone?

 

[joshuaream]

My theory is they smoked this pipe on the West bank (death) dove across the river to the East bank (birth) and that this area should be searched as well

Wow, that is a very specific theory that has absolutely no basis in archaeology.

 

[Get-the-point]

There is a piece missing from the front or "tail" section and the back legs. Maybe another effigy? I agree that it is odd that the bird is facing the other direction. I am very interested in having tests on the pipe. Any suggestions on someone?

Could be man.....still a great find!!!! Neanderthal might know someone capable of it.......... When I use someone it goes to Rogers. The other one i use is Stermer. Jackson and Davis only suit there own purposes and I would never recommend them after sending them personal finds to have them kill them because they were above par artifacts!!! If you notice Jackson has now taken to grading the artifact. When a authenticator deals artifacts it is almost certainly a case of bias...............I wish you luck on your search and keep the goodies coming we love seeing them!!!!..............................GTP(Chris)

 

[GatorBoy]

cheers

 

[Hippy]

The pipe itself might be dealing with death/life each are in opposite directions-symbolism/Egyptology. Until further surveys are done (treasure hunting) we won't know. All that can be done is to gather information then draw conclusions-scientific method.

In a small way we can all have a part to play in any discovery. Or if your here just to give me a hard time......... piss off

I'm pretty sure the Native American archaeology and Egyptology are a little different. If you can produce some evidence to support your theory I would like...no love to see it. Many cultures in Native American archaeology have somewhat specific ritual and burial practice patterns that are fairly well documented. So stating that if the Egyptians did these practices than the Amerinds must have done it too are a bit far fetched. However, I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt. So, if you can show me any documented evidence in the form of a scientific journal, site report, etc. that supports your hypothesis than I will chomp on some crow. You mentioned the scientific method so here's your perfect chance to use scientific study and data to support your theory.

Hippy

 

[joshuaream]

Treasure hunting created the fields of archeology and Egyptology. Like alchemy created chemistry and psychology First and foremost in my heart I'm a "treasure hunter" and plan on finishing my degree in archeology. I feel each field should be combined to give the best results. Both personally and professionally. If that means no university or company will hire me for my beliefs I don't care...

So if you've already made up your mind, why study?

The different groups and cultures who could have made this pipe in Georgia are relatively well know and documented, both from well over 100 years of documented excavations of thousands of sites and burials, as well as great reports made by the Spanish and other early European traders and explorers.

Egyptology? West bank of the river? Let me guess, then he sacrificed a virgin to the god of the sun, prayed to the white buffalo, danced with Kokopeli, smoked a peace pipe, built a teepee, and helped the lone ranger solve mysteries? I think we forgot some far eastern mysticism, so he probably meditated and became a vegetarian before crossing the river to die? Any other stereotypes you want to toss in?

Just kidding, have a good night. I thought your theory was a little too specific about things we don't know.

 

[Neanderthal]

"There are no experts on the unknown." -Author unknown.

There is symbolism (yours is running off the charts) at play with the artifact. Subjective unto it can be turned into the objective.

I want some of what you've been smoking out of YOUR pipe.