Pirate Treasure-Trying to get a permit to dig up

[xrunndonex]

Golly gee, I never thought to ask him. Do you think he should do this to test himself or do you have doubts as to whether there is gold in Fort Knox? Maybe he should check the Mel Fisher museum. Maybe all his local banks, pawn shops and jewelry stores. Maybe he should bury some gold and then see if he can locate it. I would guess that he has done all of this. Here is the deal, I believe in him. He is no fool and neither am I. He has been working at this for a very long time. He is working with many others. He has tried to explain what he does but the truth is I don't want to know how he does it. It is not dowsing. I am afraid that if he told me too much I would then tell you all and then I would have to kill myself.

I was just wondering if it said there was gold or not lol

 

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[JT]

One is supposed to be alarge amount of gold and silver buried at 12 feet on a piece of commercial property. The other is supposed to be a large amount of gold, silver and diamonds at what was first said to be at seven and a half feet and was later said to be at three feet.

I was told by my church contact that we could only dig on Saturdays. A dig was planned. On the day of the dig my dig partner of choice was unavailable. I brought in two good friends. When we showed up at the church a grounds maintenance worker was mowing the area. The church guy did not want him to know what we were doing so we had to wait until he left. This delayed us about an hour. My friends had limited time.

We set up a small tent and I began to dig. We videoed everything. I immediately encountered some broken up old concrete pipes. It took some doing to trace each of the three runs. I found different metallic objects. This all took a little longer than planned and I knew my guys were running out of time. About this time my phone rang and I was informed of a friends death that had occurred just hours earlier. I was suffering the effects of a brown recluse spider bite and was not at my best.

I posted the results on this thread and as was to be expected the critics were quick to claim that the dig was a failure. This was no surprise to me but the negativity sometimes gets to me. I know this is what some want. I know there are people on here that want to see me fail. That is not what this site is supposed to be about. I choose to share my story but I am not on trial and do not have to prove ANYTHING.

BDD, I admire your persistence. What I'm going to say may be long and rambling, but bear with me.

It's understandable why people question your theories on why/where treasure could/should/might/definitely be. When a person claims to know the exact locations of multiple treasures ranging from tons of gold and silver in Florida to the almost mythical Beale treasure, you have to accept that people will question you. After all, exceptional claims require exceptional proof. If not, this entire site would degenerate into illogical tit for tat arguments over who found a bigger treasure, and the whole site would be a joke.

Your hunt was fueled by stories told by Ovid, who supposedly showed you treasures buried/hidden/in plain view all over the country. However, he never really showed you anything of substance he'd found, he dug at the site of the mythical rocket shells full of gold/diamonds/money orders and came up empty, and one of the wives quoted in the article about the rocket shell hunt admitted the two intrepid hunters were broke. Doesn't sound like Ovid, his buddy, and the Duke from Pahokee were taking advantage of the hundreds of treasures they were supposedly able to find with their crystals, or whatever dowsing contraption they relied on.

Every story you've told here has ended up the same way every single tv show about hunts for Bigfoot, buried treasure, space aliens, monsters, etc....something happens to stop the hunt. In your case, the reasons include the boat breaking down, people having to leave early, you want to dig in the "exact" spot but someone else for whatever reason wants to dig somewhere different, it rains, the rental equipment needs to be turned in, you didn't dig deep enough, you should've gone 2ft to the left, or someone is mowing the grass.

Again, I admire your determination, it's got to be humbling admitting your digs only produce septic fields or dog caskets. Maybe part of the issue is, like I highlighted above, every treasure you're looking for is a "large" amount of gold, silver, diamonds, etc.

I'm not sure what you class as large, but the Rocky Bluff site was purported by you to contain tons of gold and silver. If that's the way you class every large find, it's understandable why a researcher like ECS questions you. Finding a shipwreck with tons of gold is different than finding a land site with tons of gold...it's more reasonable to believe. For someone to hide that on land, (A) they'd have to have that amount, (B) they'd have to transport it, and (C) they'd have to have a good reason to bury it.

I'm interested in what you're doing with the various LRL and dowsing guys, comparing their results to GPR. I'm not yet a believer in LRL's because way too many have been exposed as fakes. Dowsers can certainly locate water, pipes, underground wires, etc, but I've never seen a dowser be able to produce treasure. To me, I'm thinking dowsers may be picking up on some sort of disturbance in the earth, maybe it's a disruption in natural planetary magnetism when someone has dug a hole, or an underground stream is present. Dell Winders was a big dowser proponent here a while back, in fact I think he relied moreso on psychic dowsing. Whether he was on to something or whether he was nutty, I can't say, but he seemed to truly believe in his abilities. I haven't seen him post here in a while, I don't know if something happened to him or not (seemed like he or his wife were having health problems), but you may be able to do a search on the site and find his contact info. I'm pretty sure he went to one of the cookouts a couple of years ago, one of the old timers on the Shipwreck forum might have his contact info. In fact, seems like I remember him predicting there was treasure buried at the hotel site, but they couldn't get permission to dig. Ask Salvor or Aquanot, they may know something about him. He seemed like an interesting guy.

Again, not slamming you, just engaging in reasonable discourse. You're obviously dedicated, and willing to state your case. I don't think guys like VOR and ECS are purposely hard on you, I just think it's natural to play devils advocate.

Did you ever look for the diamonds someone pinpointed were buried in your brother's back yard?

 

[Salvor6]

Dell Winders was a big dowser proponent here a while back, in fact I think he relied moreso on psychic dowsing. Whether he was on to something or whether he was nutty, I can't say, but he seemed to truly believe in his abilities. I haven't seen him post here in a while, I don't know if something happened to him or not (seemed like he or his wife were having health problems), but you may be able to do a search on the site and find his contact info. I'm pretty sure he went to one of the cookouts a couple of years ago, one of the old timers on the Shipwreck forum might have his contact info. In fact, seems like I remember him predicting there was treasure buried at the hotel site, but they couldn't get permission to dig. Ask Salvor or Aquanot, they may know something about him. He seemed like an interesting guy.

Aquanut and I went to Dell's house last month. He is in bad shape and refuses to go to the hospital. He said he can die at home just as easy.

Dell's wife is blind and has dementia. Her son picked her up and is caring for her at his house in Apollo Beach. That's the latest I heard.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

JT doesnt post much but he sure does his homework when he does.

 

[ECS]

Research ain't my thing...

That does explain the dowsers,LRL's,and empty holes.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Aquanut and I went to Dell's house last month. He is in bad shape and refuses to go to the hospital. He said he can die at home just as easy.

My Dad said the same thing but dying is not always easy. My Mom died suddenly because she was blessed but my Dad went very slowly. You cannot leave someone at home to die this way. Believe me we tried to allow my Dad to die at home because he begged me to not put him in a hospital but at some point someone will have to take him to hospice or risk being arrested for neglect..

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

vor-I have read all your posts on here and many on other threads. You are a nit-picking, trouble-maker. I know your type well. Your only real value in all this is the fact that all your criticism may cause something to be questioned and maybe it will help. I already have that on our team.

.

vor is not a bad guy. ECS too. They just express their opinions.

 

[JT]

Aquanut and I went to Dell's house last month. He is in bad shape and refuses to go to the hospital. He said he can die at home just as easy.

Dell's wife is blind and has dementia. Her son picked her up and is caring for her at his house in Apollo Beach. That's the latest I heard.

Shame about Dell, he seemed like he'd be an interesting guy to spend some time with.

He was 100% committed to his psychic dowsing. Maybe there's something to it, he certainly believed. The human mind is amazing, there's a lot we don't know and a lot we'll never know about our capabilities. I remember he pointed out a few areas just offshore to someone here that had a lease and was working the area that he projected had gold, but I can't remember if they ever mentioned checking that area.

There are longstanding rumors/legends spread through treasure mags here in Charleston concerning buried pirate treasure concealed by Blackbeard, May Townsend, and other pirates, ranging from the marshes around downtown Charleston to Folly Beach and Morris Island. That's why legends get murky, because some historians aren't sure Blackbeard ever left his blockade and actually set foot in Charleston. I always wanted to chat with Dell and get his psychic impression of the area, if nothing else just to compare it to maps from that time period. It's a good lesson why, like ECS pointed out, old lore doesn't always match the truth.

I wish Dell was in better health, it would be neat for BDD to talk to him, compare notes, and see what matches up. Maybe if he gets feeling better you and Aquanot can hook him up with BDD.

 

[vor]

WT's name calling doesn't bother me. He knows deep down that I am right.

Why face reality when the life of a famous treasure hunter is much more fun?

Happy 4th to all.

V

And I do hope he finds something soon. This thread needs an infusion.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Ah what the heck. Hey BigDog, ask your remote guy where is the Confederate cattle gold buried by Pvt Lanier at the end of the Civil War? Tell him to concentrate SW of Lake Okeechobee, south of the Caloosahatchee River. Tell him to think of 60 pounds gold coins.

 

[vor]

Dowsers know when to back off. You can't pin them down. They refuse to be put in a situation where they can be exposed.

IMO

V

 

[Limitool]

I know a guy who knew where 2 old leather bags WERE with 100+ $20.00 gold coins in them. But no matter I much I ask him to post the video and pics he won't do it for some reason. He swears all he ever found was some horseshoes. I think he's LYING!!!! That's all I ever find... go figure.

 

[Bigdogdad]

JT made a great post. I like it when someone gets right to the point and makes sense. He went to a lot of effort to make his case and I am going to try to reply to everything he has said. I don't know how to make multiple quotes within one post so I am going to break it down to multiple quotes and posts.

 

[Bigdogdad]

It's understandable why people question your theories on why/where treasure could/should/might/definitely be. When a person claims to know the exact locations of multiple treasures ranging from tons of gold and silver in Florida to the almost mythical Beale treasure, you have to accept that people will question you. After all, exceptional claims require exceptional proof. If not, this entire site would degenerate into illogical tit for tat arguments over who found a bigger treasure, and the whole site would be a joke.

I have no problem with anyone questioning anything I have to say. If I were someone else reading my posts I probably would not believe much of what is said. My story is a crazy story. This much I can tell you, I believe every word of what I have put on here. Without being in my shoes and seeing with my eyes there is no way for me to tell or explain why I believe the things I do. You can see from my photos that I obviously will put a shovel into the ground and with some sites such as the Beale treasure, I may have had to travel well over 1000 miles just to get to the possible treasure site.

Some of the things that happened on my trips with Ovid were just plain crazy. The episode in North Carolina where Ovid and I were in my wife's Smokey and the Bandit Trans-am traveling for over 75 miles at speeds up to 100 mph with a tornado directly behind us was like something from a movie. The night before we were in a rainstorm and he was leading us along with his pendulum. It seemed we were on a road with curves that never ended. This was in search of the "Golden Horse". It turned out the road was the "Tail of the Dragon". We were lucky we survived.

No I don't really expect to be believed. I came onto TNET to share my story and try to find others to help me and possibly learn from my mistakes. The journey is far from over. The best is yet to come.

 

[Bigdogdad]

BDD,
Your hunt was fueled by stories told by Ovid, who supposedly showed you treasures buried/hidden/in plain view all over the country. However, he never really showed you anything of substance he'd found, he dug at the site of the mythical rocket shells full of gold/diamonds/money orders and came up empty, and one of the wives quoted in the article about the rocket shell hunt admitted the two intrepid hunters were broke. Doesn't sound like Ovid, his buddy, and the Duke from Pahokee were taking advantage of the hundreds of treasures they were supposedly able to find with their crystals, or whatever dowsing contraption they relied on.

None of the treasures Ovid and I were after were in plain view. There was one time near Atlanta when we had to walk a mile or more into the woods only to end up at an abandoned well that Ovid himself did not see. I had to climb a steep hill that Ovid could not climb to find it. To this day I still believe in the treasures at all these sites. The only problem is I don't know if I could even find my way back to the majority of them. This all occurred well over 20 years ago before GPS and Google Earth. I never asked him to show me what he had found. He told me of things and I don't think he lied to me.

The reason he came up empty at the site at Montauk Point near the lighthouse was because he was digging where he had found out the German sailors from the U-853 had buried the 88mm German tank shells (not rocket shells). My friend's dad had already retrieved the 88mm shells and re-buried them. Ovid had asked his pendulum to direct him to the spot near the parking lot. There is WAY more to this particular story and most of it has nothing to do with dowsing or Ovid. It is because of this site that I met Ovid. The wives quoted were not going to admit to a newspaper reporter about any treasure their husbands had found. Why would they? If you found treasure would you want your wife blabbing about to a reporter?

Ovid was a frail old man who mainly looked for treasure as a hobby. The "Duke of Pahokee" was even older than Ovid. Nobody ever claimed that they found "hundreds" of treasures. Ovid did tell me stories of treasures that he did find and had in his own hands. I believed him but I don't expect anybody else to. We also did not travel "all over the country". Most of our travels were between Florida and North Carolina. We made one trip to New Jersey and one trip to Virginia.

 

[Bigdogdad]

Every story you've told here has ended up the same way every single tv show about hunts for Bigfoot, buried treasure, space aliens, monsters, etc....something happens to stop the hunt. In your case, the reasons include the boat breaking down, people having to leave early, you want to dig in the "exact" spot but someone else for whatever reason wants to dig somewhere different, it rains, the rental equipment needs to be turned in, you didn't dig deep enough, you should've gone 2ft to the left, or someone is mowing the grass.

Everything you said is true. I am telling the story as it happened including the ending. It all may sound like excuses but what do you want me to say. Every word of what I have posted is the truth as I remember it. There have almost always been other people that were involved, most of whom are fellow TNET members, that will attest to and confirm EVEYTHING I have said as to how things went down. I also have an ever-growing collection of videos as almost everything involving others with me has been videotaped. I am saving all of them for the right time. You can see the video camera on my pals shoulder in the picture from the Beale treasure dig.


Yes, the rental backhoe in North Carolina broke the boat broke down with Ovid on board, people had to leave, I dug where everyone else wanted to, someone was mowing the grass, etc. That is what happened! Your point? I'm lying? Just making excuses?

 

[Bigdogdad]

Again, I admire your determination, it's got to be humbling admitting your digs only produce septic fields or dog caskets. Maybe part of the issue is, like I highlighted above, every treasure you're looking for is a "large" amount of gold, silver, diamonds, etc.

I'm not sure what you class as large, but the Rocky Bluff site was purported by you to contain tons of gold and silver. If that's the way you class every large find, it's understandable why a researcher like ECS questions you. Finding a shipwreck with tons of gold is different than finding a land site with tons of gold...it's more reasonable to believe. For someone to hide that on land, (A) they'd have to have that amount, (B) they'd have to transport it, and (C) they'd have to have a good reason to bury it.

My digs have produced much more than septic fields and dog caskets. I have posted a few pictures of some of it. Like I have stated in a past post some of what I have thrown away would be called the "find of a lifetime" by other TNET members. Not finding a real treasure has not been humbling to me at all. I am proud of all the "empty" holes I have dug. They are proof that I am actually going out and putting a shovel or backhoe scoop into the ground. I still think this is the only way I will ever find buried treasure no matter how big or small. My biggest critics on here don't seem to be doing any digging of their own and I have yet to see a single picture of ANYTHING they have found. BCH did show a pic of a bag of old buttons, but where is everybody else's "treasure"?

Yes, I am looking for large treasures. I have repeatedly stated that I have no interest in coin-shooting or seeking any other small stuff. This is my choice. I don't care what everybody else is doing. To me a large treasure is at least 50 pounds or more of gold or silver. A pirate chest. A pot-of-gold. A large stack of silver bars. This is what I seek. I never said the Rocky Bluff site had tons of gold, but yes, tons of silver.

You state that finding a shipwreck is different than finding something on land. Well, yeah! It is easier to dig for stuff in the ground versus having to dive under water in the ocean. More people have been searching on land and most of the easy stuff was found a long time ago. Anything that was on a ship was on land at some point. Anything recovered from a shipwreck at any time in the past was brought to land and then probably hidden. They wouldn't leave it lying around in plain view. Of course they would have buried some of it in the old days. Where else would they have kept it? Under their pillow? Under their bed? In the closet under their dirty treasure mags? In the distant past there were no banks and even if there were, just as today, a lot of people do not trust banks and would find their own hiding spot.

 

[Bigdogdad]

I'm interested in what you're doing with the various LRL and dowsing guys, comparing their results to GPR. I'm not yet a believer in LRL's because way too many have been exposed as fakes. Dowsers can certainly locate water, pipes, underground wires, etc, but I've never seen a dowser be able to produce treasure. To me, I'm thinking dowsers may be picking up on some sort of disturbance in the earth, maybe it's a disruption in natural planetary magnetism when someone has dug a hole, or an underground stream is present. Dell Winders was a big dowser proponent here a while back, in fact I think he relied moreso on psychic dowsing. Whether he was on to something or whether he was nutty, I can't say, but he seemed to truly believe in his abilities. I haven't seen him post here in a while, I don't know if something happened to him or not (seemed like he or his wife were having health problems), but you may be able to do a search on the site and find his contact info. I'm pretty sure he went to one of the cookouts a couple of years ago, one of the old timers on the Shipwreck forum might have his contact info. In fact, seems like I remember him predicting there was treasure buried at the hotel site, but they couldn't get permission to dig. Ask Salvor or Aquanot, they may know something about him. He seemed like an interesting guy.

I am working with some guys that have LRL's that are not available for sale anywhere. Some are one-of-a -kind. They do not want to advertise what they have or what they can do. Having an LRL that works does not assure you of finding treasure anymore than having a state-of-the-art metal detector. It takes many different factors. The biggest mistake made with LRL's is believing you can accurately pinpoint exactly where to dig. They work best when kept at a good distance, like maybe 100 feet or more, from the object that you seek. Getting even farther from your target will give you a more precise compass heading. That is why they are called LONG RANGE LOCATORS. They can be used to triangulate the compass headings but you are going to have to have a good metal detector, luck, a shovel, and a willingness to dig to actually find anything. Picking the EXACT spot to stick your shovel into the ground is not easy. Digging up the usual junk and then continuing to dig is the hard part.

If you believe dowsers can find wires and pipes why is it so hard to accept that they might be able to find a chunk of non-ferrous metal? Just as with anything most people are not very good at it, some are better, and a very few are actually good. Maybe 1 in 10,000 is actually great. It is no different than if you are trying to find a great singer, artist, golfer or anything else requiring lots of skill and some natural talent. No one gets to be great without lots of hard work, practice, patience and a willingness to do what it takes. I feel I have been lucky to meet some of these people.

I have met Dell Winders a couple of times. He seems like a real nice guy. He only lives about an hour from me but we have never spent much time talking except at the treasure hunter's barbecues and on the phone. I also believe there are objects of value buried at the Pennwood Motor Lodge in Wabasso. Not just because of what Dell has said but because of the history that it has.

 

[Bigdogdad]

Again, not slamming you, just engaging in reasonable discourse. You're obviously dedicated, and willing to state your case. I don't think guys like VOR and ECS are purposely hard on you, I just think it's natural to play devils advocate.
Did you ever look for the diamonds someone pinpointed were buried in your brother's back yard?

You can think what you want to but vor and ECS have always and will continue to slam me. That is their style. We have PM'd each other. We are grownups and can take it. This does not mean that we like what is said. I am actually quite nice on here as compared to what I might say if this were not the kinder, gentler website. We don't want to hurt anybody's tender feelings, now do we?

The diamond's you mention were not in my brother's backyard. As a matter of fact he has more than 60 acres. These were a first-hand account of a bag of diamonds being buried around 40 years ago. My brother just happened to buy the property they may be on. I think they are long lost forever. I did take a few people onto his property to search for them. His wife did not want this. One time we dug into his buried utilities and almost had a bad situation. He decided he did not want me bringing strangers onto his land. I wrote the diamonds off a long time ago.

 

[Bigdogdad]

It may appear that I have nothing better to do than to read and post on this website. I usually have at least a dozen things going on at any given time. This website is a distraction for me. Maybe too much of one. Today is the fourth of July. I did not plan anything for today but as usual things came up for me to do. I am involved a lot with Craigslist and it keeps things interesting. Today I did a trade of a couple of mini-bikes for a mud-mower. Before today I did not know what a mud-mower was. Now I am the proud owner of one. My older brother stopped by and we spent the afternoon and evening working on it. I will post a pic of what it looked like when I unloaded it from my trailer. We will probably work on it tomorrow afternoon and I will post a pic of the results. I am going to show some pictures of some of the stuff I am presently or will be working on. None of this has to do with treasure but I am trying to show how easily distracted I get from all things treasure related.


Today's mud-mower find. I just put an updated dual master cylinder on the 57 and yesterday ordered the front disc brake conversion kit. The horse stalls for my younger brother are now finished. This is where the brown recluse bit me.

The 65 Mustang needs to be put back together so I can sell it to finance treasure hunting. I am picking up a complete rusted out 65 with a 289 for $125 Tuesday. The motor will go into the mustang or I might put it into the 51 Ford pickup I recently acquired. I need to put the new bearings in the Jeep rear end so I can enjoy driving it after completely restoring it. I need to weld the grading blade on my 52 Ford 8N tractor so I can continue to maintain my private road. I have yet to take out the wave runner I recently traded for. I have recently traded for two boats to go treasure hunting in. I have taken each one out one time. The weather is great, what am I waiting for. The 57 road racer needs wet sanded and buffed. Having built this from junk I love to show it off. The point of all these pics is to show that I have a lot more on my mind than digging for treasure. 7 dogs and a wife to keep happy. A full-time job. Some side-jobs needing done. Like I have said, I have AADD (adult attention deficit disorder). It is hard for me to stay focused. But you know what, I always accomplish what I set out to do.