Old Documents ?

[mojjax]

Can anyone here read French ? I bought a box of old books at a barn sale , and these were in it . The 1842 one is 8 pages , the 1848 is 30 pages . I see the word ''Canada'' a few times in them , so I'm guessing they are from there . I'm kinda curious to what they are about . Thanks for any info ! Let me know if you need more pictures of other pages .

mojjax

 

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[Skrimpy]

Looks like they are old. It appears to be written on old parchment using a quill dipped from an inkwell. Some words appear english and some appear french to me. It appears that the first one is "Conventions A Engagement du (some in french) Expedition". The next one says "Nobb 1 Mai 1848 Donation (some in french) Expedition". The third one is even tougher. "(French word that appears again two lines down), out engage, (french words), le Pont (pont is the french word for "bridge"), (french words etc). Looks like someone wrote that up that was bilingual or there are a bunch of french words very close to english. If you can transcribe the words there are web sites that will translate the words (maybe not very accurately), but maybe close enough that you know what the documents say. It appears to me that the words "Augusta", "Sept", and "Mai" could be August, September, and May.

 

[RON (PA)]

Congrats, even the documents are a find by themselves and they look like they are in awesome shape for being 165 years old. I would call a local college/university and maybe someone in French/Modern Languages Department. Students are always looking for extra credit and maybe a senior student could help you as part of their graduation requirements. Since each student has an advisor, I would also have the advisor (French teacher) check it too. Hope it helps.

etate = state.
et = and
sans = without

 

[dg39]

Congrats, even the documents are a find by themselves and they look like they are in awesome shape for being 165 years old. I would call a local college/university and maybe someone in French/Modern Languages Department. Students are always looking for extra credit and maybe a senior student could help you as part of their graduation requirements. Since each student has an advisor, I would also have the advisor (French teacher) check it too. Hope it helps.

etate = state.
et = and
sans = without

I recommend you take Ron's advise and have them translated at a college near you. And keep them in your possession. Make copy's and take to the college for your own protection. I am speaking from experence.
DG

 

[Montana Jim]

diggitdoggy speaks French...

I dunno if it's just enough to sound sexy or if she can translate that for you...

 

[ivan salis]

the date is written in typical french european type fashion of the day ---first the day of the month say 28 then month then year --like this-- 26 mai 1842---(may 26th,1842 as we would write it today) thus it the date it was written -- at the bottom of the one it states "1 expedition" -- so logically its a record written on the date shown at the top of the page --- about an expedition that took place -- most likely notes about what was to be covered cost and such-- on first glace thats a brief over veiw -- ""au" means with and "du" means of --and "de" means the-- there are several "french " words in the modern american "english" language some of which you can understand I'm sure.

ok here goes the first one -- may 26, 1842 --- conventions* -- a engagement of (name) with (name) and others the 1st expedition *(--seems they were hiring a guide or something of that order -- a "covention" was a old term used from the modern word contract-- often its the "legal" wording of the day used by nations when bargining with each other and also people-- it means "agreement" basically-- thus a "legal" contract most likely hiring someone for "guiding or outfitting" an expedation of sorts -- its the details of their "agreement"-- in wrting)

the second -- may 1,1848 ( lets see about 6 years later)--- humm might be the "findings" of the "expedation" started in 1842--- Donation -- of -----name---& his spouse ---- with ----name------

sorry only the 2 main pages I can see easily -- this is my take on it from what I see --

about #1 ---I would say its a paper related to hiring a "guide" and outfitting for an expedation in 1842 somewhere in canada and this is the contract and whats "expected" from the guide--

I hope this helps you ---its a bit rough to read this way -- I'm used to doing it in person ---actually I'm much better at spanish than french -- Ivan

 

[wesfrye53]

Being a mix of French, English....I'm guessing something from early America along the Canadian border?

 

[cheese]

I think it's entirely French. I know enough French to get by in a pinch...so there are some words there that I don't know, and others that I think I just can't make out well. I do agree that this appears to be the record or contract for hire of a guide to take or accompany someone somewhere.

 

[able_walker]

Pretty interesting...I know that historical items from Quebec are very collectible.If they can be tied to some well known event or people they may be worth something at auction.Try e-mailing someone in the history dept.at one of the many universities in Quebec.I say Quebec because you said Canada was mentioned,down around New Orleans there is a large french speaking population as well.

 

[justine093]

they appear from the format to definately be legal type papers,
either some type of court records, contract or deed....

 

[mojjax]

Here are a few more pictures.... Note how on the last one , under the dime , has a penciled " finger" pointing at that section .
I'm planning on scanning all the pages this week . Anyway , thanks for all the help .


mojjax

 

[able_walker]

Any new info?

 

[mojjax]

Any new info?

Yes , I made copies and sent them to someone who may be able to translate them . I'll keep you all informed when I hear back from them .

 

[LadyDigger]

Here are a few more pictures.... Note how on the last one , under the dime , has a penciled " finger" pointing at that  section .
I'm planning on scanning all the pages this week . Anyway , thanks for all the help .


                                          mojjax

As a genealogist...that is so exciting!!!!! I wish I could find something that exciting!!

Recommendations...Scan the pages as a .TIFF file...that extension is more for images you want to preserve (i.e., important documents, birth, death, that book you found!!). It's the highest resolution. .JPG/.JPEG are more for pictures and GIF for graphics / photos and BMP for graphics/clipart.

But I save ALL my scans as .TIFF anyways...it's a better resolution for touch-ups (i.e., photos that are torn, worn or discolored) and better for larger blow-ups and you don't loose much resolution and it's not grainy as a JPG/JPEG would be if you blew it up. But forewarn, .TIFF files can be very large...and just about every graphic/photo programs on the market today will open them (the ones I use anyways will).

After you have scanned the pages, make sure to put those on a CD and put it away...that way you will have them for future reference if you need them. Make sure you protect that book. I have these plastic containers that paper came in and use them for my very old books (reading books-stories), but I lay a small piece of foam on the bottom and place the book ontop of that. If you go to a photo store, they should be able to recommend something they have to put it in....not your typical Rubbermaid/Tupperware container.

Anyways, what others suggested about a college and such....and yes, that was great advice on the copies!!!! I too, learned the hard way on some very important documents years ago....COPIES COPIES COPIES...NEVER let the original out of your sight!

Be careful also with touching the pages with your fingers. Our fingers have alot of oil on them, some more than others. Wear gloves, like white cotton ones, before handling the pages. The oils from your fingers can damage the pages.

I wish I knew French (French Canadian)....look forward to see what the outcome is!!!

Congrats and Good Luck!
Annmarie

PS: Your pic #7 you posted above says (I believe) the following...not sure on the spelling:

Les Comparaus sobliquit de fournie tous les materiause neussaires aud franks lemicuse pour le sus

I used an online translator and this is the best I could get...as I said, my spelling may have been off and I did not type in the whole sentence:

Comparaus sobliquit of providing all materiause neussaires aud franks lemicuse for it known

I take it TOUS=ALL, LES MATERIAUS=MATERIALS, DE=OF, FOURNIE=PROVIDING, POUR=FOR

Believe NEUSSAIRES could mean NECESSARY. Sorry, I couldn't wait...hehehe!

 

[DCMatt]

May 26, 1842

Contact for the engagement of Sieur (formal Mister) Fran(cios) Lemieux and Sieur Augustin Lemieux et autres (et al or "and others").

The date puts it in the heyday of the Canadian fur trade.

Beauty, eh?!

DCMatt

 

[ivan salis]

got the copies and I'm on the job --give me a few days to detwist it -- its a mix of old french and old english words & terms and rather formal & old fashioned terms to boot --- on first quick once over glance --the one appears to be a contract of engagement (hire) of two men named by name and others (most likely they work for the named men) for an expedition --the 1st expedition ---the details will take a bit of time to properly translate but can be done. Ivan

 

[able_walker]

Good luck there Ivan.North America still a pretty wild place in the 1840's,lookin forward to a bit of interesting history on this "expedition"

 

[wesfrye53]

We're waiting with bated breath!

 

[able_walker]

Hey Ivan making any progress?

 

[ivan salis]

yes -- I am about halfway thru -- after I finish up --- I'm having it proof read to be sure by a local french teacher to be sure that my take on it is correct --- Ivan