Odyssey Smoke and Mirrors

MORE AND BEYOND OSSY

Bronze Member
Jul 27, 2008
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BRISBANE
Primary Interest:
All Treasure Hunting
Spanish News:
In 1999 'Pipe' Sarmiento (Bilbao,1952) journalist,lawyer and writer,was sailing quietly through the waters of the bay of Algeciras aboard his sailboat. The passage promised to be placid. one morning sunbathing and chatting with friends a boat caught the attention of its master Sarmiento " as I approached and observed the movements on board I realized that something strange was going on. It was not a simple ship moored in the middle of the Strait of Gibraltar". The Sea Hawk, an American flagged vessel leased by the treaure hunting company Odyssey International, appeared to be scanning the seabed using magnetometers capable of drawing to perfection a map of whatever was under the water. I immediately reported the activity to the Civil Guard because what they wre doing was neither routine nor legal. They were in our waters and there are limits to what one can do in Spanish territorial waters.

The Civil Guard were aware of the vessel and its activites but were unable to do anything about it. Their hands were tied" A year later, The sea Hawk returned to the Straits and recommenced its scanning activities. this time their goal seemed clearer- find the remains of the wreck of HMS Sussex, an English vessel which sank in 1694 with nine tons of gold on board. " Here is the key to the present controversy. Looking for a British ship in Spanish waters but, which according to them were under control of Gibraltar.

According to that theory, they had a right to be there. However, in accordance with the UNESCO convention of 2001 signed by Spain, if the ship is Spanish, it belongs to us" said Sarmiento... " what was very clear to Pipe Sarmiento, an experienced maritime lawyer who had dedicated many years to the sea, was the close collaboration between Odyssey, the English government and Gibraltar. " They had reached an agreement- 50% of the booty was to be exchanged for the Military and political protection offered by the Gibraltarian authorities".

The meetings between Manuel Chavez, then chairman of the Board of Andalucia and Josep Pique minister of Foreign Affairs with the Aznar Goverment did not have the desired effect. In fact, the Government came to grant the first of many permits to enable the sea Hawk to continue to seek the Sussex.
But the harassment of environmentalist and the Civil Guard forced a change of strategy. Odyssey, withdraws the Sea hawk from the waters off Gibraltar and in its place they substitute the Mini-beix. On board, two Spaniards, whose presence are now required in order to continue to be moored in the Mediterranean - a member of the Spanish Navy and the archaeologist Ivan Negueruele discovered the subterfuge.
"In one of the exploration sites - allegedly of the Sussex, was located remains of a cannon and ceramics. when Negueruela analyzed them he found that the remnants were Spanish" Odyssey could no longer continue with its decepton. what he had found was not a British but a Spanish vessel. The Board of Andalusia, was then informed of the finding, forcing the Civil Guard to Expel the Americans. The central Government decried that decision. But the Board was undeterred !

Stemm withdraws but does not surrender. He still has an ace up his sleeve. During the following years, until 2004, the claims get tangled in drawn out judicial processes. Pipe Sarmiento maintains his assertion - the waters of the Strait belong to Spain, therefore, Odyssey has no right to be there without Spanish permission. " THEY KNEW AND WERE FULLY AWARE THAT THEY HAD NOT FOUND THE SUSSEX. But their only objective was to make off with the gold!
Zapatero believed that by turning a blind eye to what Odyssey was doing, would assit with solving the conflict with Gibratar and the recovery of the colony for Spain..

The naivety of our political classes allowed Stemm to follow through with his plans" Towards the end of 2005 Odyssey returned for the booty. First with the Ocean Boomer which during several months mapped out the wreck and then with the Odyssey Exploer. However from a small house inthe Mallorcan municpality of Costitx, Pipe Sarmiento was able to follow all Odyssey's coming and going via the satellite. " This allowed me to identify the true location of the ship " BY DAY THEY PRETENDED TO SEARCH ELSEWHERE IN THE BAY OF ALGECIRAS BUT BY NIGHT UNDER THE COVER OF DARKNESS THEY RETURNED TO THE LOCATION OF THE SUNKEN SPANISH SHIP"

Satellite photographs, and a leak which confirmed the departure of a flight from Gibraltar airport to the United States with more than 15 metric tons of booty with a declared dutiable value of $4 million on board were able to expose what was really going on.

" It was the 18th of may 2007. I got a call and went to the airport of Son San Joan and within hours I was in a hire car watching the loading of what had been STOLEN ! I became angry and thought this is the time to act "
The strategy was developed in Mallorca- leaks to the media, thousands of web pages which exposed what Stemm was up to - to auction the lot to the highest bidder.

A film script has now been developed, in which Antonio Banderas, a good friend of Sarmiento has shown interest in doing because of his passion for the sea. A BOOK WILL ALSO BE WRITTEN. IT WILL EXPOSE A FEW SECRETS - no doubt stirring the politicians into action.
We still don't know the full story !
I will post the link. Ossy
 

Interesting- a VERY interesting read. So, if this is all accurate and the spy ware( which watches us ) can verify the positions of all the players at all times---nite and day---then the investors will be quite sad.
Did the plane carrying the coins fly from Spain? No doubt there is much more to learn...wonder in what court this will eventually be heard. Keep us posted.
 

Ossy,
I'm confused. Your article states Sarmiento drove to Palma de Mallorca and watched the jet get loaded.

I thought it was established that the goods left via Gibraltar. How is it we're now on the Island of Majorca watching the same load of coins? Or are you suggesting that there were two loads of coins, and two aircraft? With Mr. Stemm coordinating a big side show at two airports to accomplish what exactly?

The story does sound like it would make a nice movie. I wonder how much of it is accurate.

A wise old man used to tell me when people are talking junk about you it is generally because they are jealous.
 

OSSY, Last time I check Gibraltar was an English Territory, not Spanish. If Odyssey Marine flew a plane out of there, apparently they had every legal right to do so.
I also might add that just because one of their ships was doing a survey, looking for wrecks, does not mean that they completed a salvage at that time or ever on a target that they might have found at that time.
Please don't assume. It makes an ass out of you and me. (assume)
 

Ossy I know this is fiction because Odyssey never had a boat named Seahawk. Their two vessels are the Odyssey Explorer and the Ocean Alert. You are thinking about another company. Check out their web site: www.shipwreck.net.
 

Scubadude,

I think you have misread the article. I think that the implication is that Sarmiento went to his local airport in Mallorca and flew to Gibraltar where "within hours" he was able to witness the loading of the goods. Also, do not mix up this story with that of the Black Swan, where the coins were also flown out of Gibraltar.

Of course, we do not know how accurate this story is, but if it is the case, then it was a serious breach of Spanish law, and takes us back to the issue discussed in an earlier thread of whether Odyssey are allowed to bring in goods that they have recovered from the seabed and then move them by land to the airport and fly them out without the Gibraltar Customs being involved. If this story is true, then they were transporting goods that had been illegally recovered from Spanish waters.

Any corroborative evidence that Sarmiento's story is true, Ossy?

Mariner
 

Salvor6,

The Seahawk retriever or m/v seahawk was the ship that Seahaek Dep Ocean Technology , with directors/owners John Morris and Gregg Stemm, used in exploring and recovering the Tortugas wreck, and in 1996 it was available for charter by salvage and research companies. I have not found evidence that it was being used by Odyssey in 1999, but it would not surprise me if this was the case.

Perhaps an Odyssey expert like Jeff K can tell us whether Odyssey ever used this ship in its explorations off the coast of Spain?

Mariner
 

The M/V Seahawk was never used by Odyssey. After Stemm and Morris left Seahawk Deep Ocean Tech. the M/V Seahawk was sold and moved to New Orleans. Ossy has his facts mixed up.
 

Here is the link: http://www.diariodemallorca.es/secc...040_Mallorca-Portada-odyssey-conexion-Costitx
Look at the link : Santa Ana la Real" " que no 'la Mercedes" ( It was not the Mercedes )

He has satellite images that the Odyssey Explorer only spent days in the Atlantic !
" They spent months camped in the Mediterranean " and they have only recovered part of the booty "
Pipe Sarmiento.
Very Interesting, can't wait for the book :read2:
Ossy
 

Apologies scubadude,

That is the same story. I thought you were miixng up this wreck with the Black Swan.

Mariner
 

The story is great and if it is true, I love it. We should do a survey on Treasure Net to see how many members would support Odyssey if it is true and how many members would stick with Spain. I have seen heated discussions already in other threads about the legal side of things and what appears to be the ethical argument against the legal one, and, apart from everything, the pirate side. I would, naturally, take the pirate side in this scenario, since obviously Spain has no intention of ever searching or finding its supposedly lost treasures and governments are no better than pirates and worse than noble ones. The ethical argument, of course, is that the treasure belongs to the new world countries of origin that were subjugated into becoming part of the Spanish Empire and which were genocided and enslaved to produce the wealth. The legal argument is that the colonies of Spain were part of it and therefore whatever gets lost in the sea coming back to Spain to fill her coffers, legitimately belongs to her for eternity and to no one else.

I take the pirate side because the people who were enslaved and genocided are long dead. I have Slavic heritage and the word slave comes from the fact that the Slavic people were constantly enslaved throughout their history, so therefore am I now owed something by the Germans, the Scandinavians, the Italians, etc. etc. ? I dont think so and I never would want anything from any of them. That is why I am not a louse and parasite. Therefore I have no sympathy with anyone in Peru, Ecuador, et al who is alive today and somehow thinks that they are owed something for crimes that may or may not have had anything to do with one of their ancestors. To me it would be immoral to give away wealth to people who did not earn it and who would be most likely to squander it the way lottery winners often do (even though with the giant populations of those countries now, the treasure would not even make a dent on one person). The same applies for giving it to the government representatives of the selsame people since their squandering of resources is always phenomenally greater than individual capacities for doing so.

I have even less sympathy for the Spaniards who were the usurpers of wealth from the mostly defenseless historical people and who now wish to cry about fair play. It seems to me that fair play would be to make a time machine, go back in time with modern weaponry, and then invade post conquest Spain and decimate, genocide, brutally murder and enslave members of their population who particpated in and supported the conquest of the new world, and then loot and plunder all of their assets.

The last point of view is that of the person who has no fixed moral compass and who is opportunistic and likes to do things under the cover of legitimacy. That kind of person would find the treasure but only after signing an agreement with Spain to split the loot fifty fifty. The benefits of that way of doing things are manifold since the treasure would have good provenance, be able to be sold for much higher prices, and also the person who made the agreement would be respected by governments and able to make more agreements in the future. This argument holds a lot of weight except for the fact that Spain does not seem interested in giving out fifty fifty agreements right now. Which brings me back to the pirate argument.

I am sure this kind of thinking will ignite all kinds of controversy and feedback, but at least it will give folks something to think about.
 

salvor 6,

Hope you are back in full health, by the way. Do you happen to know when the Seahawk was sold and moved to New Orleans, and who owned it after that? There was a period when both SDOT and Odyssey were active, of course.

Mariner
 

My layman's opinion is that it is the same as finding a coin in a 'tot lot' . It was lost and you found it and it is yours .
A nation that has all the archives and resources to have recovered these treasures and didn't has no more claim than an older person that lost a nickle in a tot lot as a 6 yr old and now wants to claim your coinshooting find as theirs .
 

...appeared to be scanning the seabed using magnetometers capable of drawing to perfection a map of whatever was under the water

That's not what magnetometers do. How accurate are his other observations?

"In one of the exploration sites - allegedly of the Sussex, was located remains of a cannon and ceramics. when Negueruela analyzed them he found that the remnants were Spanish" Odyssey could no longer continue with its deception. what he had found was not a British but a Spanish vessel.

From what I've read of these ships, it is often difficult to identify them. Cannons and artifacts found
don't necessarily guarantee the country of the ship.
 

Truly a work of Fiction! - There are smoke and mirrors’ going on with this story and it looks like it’s all coming out of Spain from the anti-Odyssey crowd.

Spain is still upset that the British maintain control of “The Rock” as a Sovereign Colony of the Crown, and it is Spain that illegally claims the waters off of Gibraltar to this day, even after Spain ceded Gibraltar to Britain under the treaty of Utrecht in 1713. Not even the UN buys into this Spanish claim.
 

Belizianpirate,

Very good well thought out rebuttal, you hit every point. Everything is fair game up to a certain point. At the end of the day it is pirate booty to get.
 

wreckdiver1715 said:
Truly a work of Fiction! - There are smoke and mirrors’ going on with this story and it looks like it’s all coming out of Spain from the anti-Odyssey crowd.

Spain is still upset that the British maintain control of “The Rock” as a Sovereign Colony of the Crown, and it is Spain that illegally claims the waters off of Gibraltar to this day, even after Spain ceded Gibraltar to Britain under the treaty of Utrecht in 1713. Not even the UN buys into this Spanish claim.
Tom, standard reply from the anti Spanish crowd ! you will know the treaty of Utrecht well,
If the British accept the treaty of 1713 there was no provision for Territorial waters Full stop !
If you know say in 2009 things have changed with claiming territorial waters, then the original treaty is Null and void, you can have it both ways my friend ! Spain will never cede it's waters !!
Tom we will see if it's fact or fiction, but I'm sure you will come up with some story!
Ossy
 

Mariner, why do you want to know who purchased the Seahawk Retriever? I live near SDOT and they are still active. I met their CEO John Lawrence. They are working in S. America. Do a Google search and you will find the answers.
 

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