Not possible digging that deep.

[Roadhse2]

gazzahk...

" I find the salt theory not plausible for a whole range of reasons."

I would be interested in your thoughts on this...here is what I have found..

There were commercial fishing operations going on in the area in the 1600's

A commercial fishing company owned property on Oak Island and the rights to fish that area commercially

There were fishing stations in the area (where they processed the boats catch for shipping)

Salt was an expensive commodity needed to preserve these fish catches, cost of the salt, high taxes, transport from Europe, risk of loss of the salt, and fish, if a ship doesnt make it due to loss at sea.

Precedence of these same type of sea salt works in Europe in one configuration or another

So known technology to the fishing company owners on how to retrieve salt on their own at less cost and to ensure they had what they needed when needed

Thoughts?

 

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[Charlie P. (NY)]

That's exactly the point the Woods Hole and other studies created, but mostly because of the dating, 1200 to 1400, well before anything resembling a coconut grew in the Atlantic Basin.

Cheers, Loki

One potentially interesting finding that was made involved the legendary coconut fibres. The Woods Hole team were taken to a site on the Northeast coast of the island by people from Triton, who 'dug down a bit and produced a handful of fibres from under the sand (Aubrey, 2002).' When analyzed, they were indeed confirmed as material from some species of coconut, possibly of Mediterranean origin but too decayed for a positive identification (Aubrey, 2002). Also surprisingly, carbon dating indicated a date of roughly 1100 CE for the fibres, which should prove very exciting to various authors although numerous explanations for the presence of the fibres and their age can be given.
It should be noted (and this was stated categorically by the chief scientist involved in the project) that the researchers were led to the spot and handed material retrieved from under the sand (Aubrey, 2002). No archaeological dig was conducted and the researchers did not have the time to search for additional samples. Thus it is possible that quantities of fibre were planted by prior treasure hunters in order to mislead potential investors, or (as one of the scientists suggested) the material might have been deposited on the eastern coast of the island by storm action sometime in the distant past; it is this side of the island that faces toward the Atlantic and consequently would receive more storm surge and other severe weather.

Appendix --Woods Hole Explores Oak Island

 

[gazzahk]

gazzahk...

" I find the salt theory not plausible for a whole range of reasons."

I would be interested in your thoughts on this...here is what I have found..


Thoughts?

Thanks for asking..

I have read this guys article

Dennis King's article on the "Finger Drains"

I would start by saying no other authors of any of the research on Oak Island has suggested this theory.

This author’s theory is based on no visit to Oak Island and no investigation of the actual site or data

I find the theory pretty full of holes

Firstly the dating of the coconut fibers is all wrong and that in itself brings his 1700s theory into question . There is also the issue raised by the previous poster when I raised the drying fish theory. Why would people bring coconut fibers from the other side of the world to setup a questionable and ineffective filtering system to try out a yet unknown and possibly ineffective method of drying saltwater to get salt.

If the box drains were covered in the coconut fiber and eel grass then sand the only thing that would drain into them would be the water that was directly over the top of the drains. There is no logic as to why the water that passes through the whole beach would drain into those five small pipes. This would mean the whole job of building the dam would be to simply get the salt from directly above the drains and not from the whole beach. If they just wanted the water for the boiling pit it would have been a lot easier just to dig a channel to the boiling area. The amount of salt would be the same as if the water just flowed straight into the drains.

If the tide was allowed to wash over the beach it would just see the water going through the sand the same way it does on any beach. Why would the salt accumulate on the beach. This does not happen on any other beach. The sand is porous and the water simply flows through it. Every time the water comes in it would simply re mix with the ocean and be the same salt concentration as the ocean there is no reason for the salt concentration to get larger each time the ocean comes in. There are no references to the beach being covered in salt. To accumulate salt you would need a surface where the water could not just soak through each time the water was let go over the beach.
In methods I have seen where the salt was collected from sand the salt sits on top of the sand and is collected as salt not as water. Ie the salt does not drain through the sand. The water does and the salt stays on top.

The only reason that the salt makers would of needed to try to filter their sand would be because they themselves put their sand over their inlets to where they got the water.
The amount of water that would have to be boiled to get any significant amount of salt would be massive. So where is the evidence of tonnes of charcoal. There would be mounds of the stuff as 10s of thousands of gallons of water must have been boiled. There is no reference anywhere to very large deposits of charcoal. Think of how much charcoal burning 1000 trees would create. There would be no reason for the fisherman to have removed it. There is also no evidence of significant deforestation which would have been needed to get the wood they would need to burn to boil there massive amount of gallons of water.

Why is there no evidence of what must have been a significant long term presence of man here to build the dam and live and work making the salt. The fisherman would have no reason for hiding the evidence of their presence. There would be much more evidence of the community that would have been required to live here to justify such a significant enterprise.

He quotes a variety of salt making historic practices. None of these are the same or even that similar to what he is theorizing here. They are quite different. Why is there no evidence that this method of making salt has ever been used anywhere else in the Americas.

I have shown this article to three of our science teachers in the past and they just laughed. They pointed out many reasons as to why this process would not see any increase in the waters salt concentration.

Why have none of the treasure seekers ever explored this theory. Why have the Lagina brothers never even mentioned this theory.

To go through the effort of building a substantial dam and regulating the amount of water that was allowed to pass up to the very small beach in a very controlled way would be a massive effort for a very small return.
This method takes no account of the effect of rain (which is pretty common in the area) and would cancel out the effect of the dam to a large degree. It also takes no account of winter where water is frozen and evaporation is likely to be almost nothing. Thus it would only be usable for a very limited time of the year.

Therefore I find this explanation highly improbable..

 

[Honest Samuel]

I saw the show Tuesday night. A whole of digging but came out with no treasures, but a lot of mud and old wood. Stay tune for next week. I doubt they find the treasure that there this season or this year. Good luck, brothers.

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

if you were going to go to the equator for palms why not stay there for the better sun/warmth to evaporate the salt MUCH faster than the Oak Island climate?

Salt pans are usually many acres in size - these are in Southern France. They have to be large, shallow and VERY level for evaporation.

 

[Roadhse2]

Thanks gazzahk and Charlie P for the replies...

I do believe that Dennis Kings account is basically right....and in light of the drains having been excavated and no tunnels found, the most reasonable answer to the finger drains existence. The fact that fishing was a large commercial venture in the area and the need for the salt as a way to preserve these fish for long voyages only adds credence to me.

I also believe the coir (fibres) found were brought in as packing material for shipping which was standard practice at the time through all of the trade routes. The dating of the coir is suspect as c14 dating has a wide range of parameters, but even if close...it was common to be used as packing material, and where Loki and I disagree, reused over and over from one port to another, as it too was an expensive commodity that would have to be shipped thousands of miles to use 'new' just to pack items in.

The island has had many occupants, where are the remains of those settlements? Or their activities? Or even the group that supposedly dug tunnels and money pit, a massive undertaking that should leave plenty of remnants of them being there? Wood could come from nearby islands or even the mainland, the waste charcoal dumped into the sea...or washed away in storm surges since that time.

But if you want to think it is more plausible that the cove and finger drains simply were to fill a tunnel for a trap for a treasure that no one has produced evidence of in 200 years after spending millions looking...hey that is ok too.

 

[gazzahk]

Thanks gazzahk

But if you want to think it is more plausible that the cove and finger drains simply were to fill a tunnel for a trap for a treasure that no one has produced evidence of in 200 years after spending millions looking...hey that is ok too.

Nope.. As I said earlier I think it was to dry fish.

 

[lookindown]

I think something was buried there...I think it was recovered and kept quiet by one of the treasure hunters years ago...wouldnt be the first time a treasure hunter didn't want to share with investors.

 

[Roadhse2]

How would the drains come into play to dry fish? I am honestly interested in other theories for there use, other than for a tunnel that has already been found to not be there, and they would serve no more function for than a hole if there was a tunnel...

If there is treasure on the island or not...I think Smith's Cove was used as a fishing station by the company that owned land there and really has nothing to do with any treasure the island may hold...even if flood tunnels were used, why from 500 ft from the cove to pit rather than a 150 ft from the other shore...3 times the effort to accomplish the same thing? Makes no sense to me...Of course none have been found as of yet anyway, even though all have looked for them.

 

[gazzahk]

How would the drains come into play to dry fish? I am honestly interested in other theories for there use, other than for a tunnel that has already been found to not be there, and they would serve no more function for than a hole if there was a tunnel...

If there is treasure on the island or not...I think Smith's Cove was used as a fishing station by the company that owned land there and really has nothing to do with any treasure the island may hold...even if flood tunnels were used, why from 500 ft from the cove to pit rather than a 150 ft from the other shore...3 times the effort to accomplish the same thing? Makes no sense to me...Of course none have been found as of yet anyway, even though all have looked for them.

I tend to agree... The problem is anything they find on Oak Island is linked to the treasure whereas there are probably multiple sources for the artifacts etc

The drains in the fish theory are simply a way to drain of excess water from the beach more quickly and stop the water pooling and turning the beach muddy (This was not my own theory (drying fish) I read it somewhere and found it the most plausible of the theories to explain the filtering setup on the beach).

 

[gazzahk]

I am honestly interested in other theories for there use, .

There is also Joy Steele theory. You will see her claim in the comments section after the below referenced blog article. Stating this structure was the same as others seen in British navy Tar Kilns

What is the u-shaped structure in Oak Island's Smith's Cove? The Blockhouse Blog - The Oak Island Compendium

This was done by the English. The smoking gun was the little wooden box found only 3 feet below that structure. It was called a box funnel in antiquity and let the pine tar course over it and into the waiting barrel. It had neither skids nor a tow affixment and therefore was not a sled for hauling away debris. The notch at the back is there as box funnels had and there was even black pine tar still clinging to the object when found. The dowel in the side was once a spindle to prop the bucket funnel up in front of the kiln, I also have photographic evidence to back all this up. The structure around is identical to the shoring up they would use in the eighteenth century around these kilns right down to the inclined timbers used. John if you can email me I will show you there is no mistake. Naval stores and especially pine tar and pitch were of paramount importance in the age of the wooden boat. That's what they were doing there, I am sure. 100% sure.

She published this book in 2014 "The Oak Island Mystery Solved! By Joy A. Steele. 2014. "


Here is a brief review of the book that gives her theory Journal of Folklore Research: JFR Review for The Oak Island Mystery Solved!

I remember Marty briefly mentioning this theory in an earlier season and dismissing it in the same breath saying something along the lines that he has seen no evidence to support her theory.

I have never read the book so no real idea on the plausibility of her theory...

 

[gazzahk]

I think something was buried there...I think it was recovered and kept quiet by one of the treasure hunters years ago...wouldnt be the first time a treasure hunter didn't want to share with investors.

That is a very good point.. We don't know that someone like Dunfield didn't find the 'holy grail' put it in his pocket and say "Nothing there I am giving up and going home...."

 

[n2mini]

The Restalls did have investors and probably did to some extent lead them on to get more money out of them. In their book, they said "we are very close to finding it" for a couple of years.. Luckily for them, most of their investor weren't close buy to keep an eye on what was going on. No cell phones of course so letters were all they had.. The person the Laginas need to talk to if he is still alive is the Restalls youngest son. He lived on the island as his brother and dad did the searching along with local hired hands. He at times went to live with his sister Lee Lamb in order to go to school. Lee Lamb never lived on the island other then some visits, she was married and lived else where. If he is still alive he would be the one with the best stories to tell from living there and also still living with his mom after they left the island following the deaths of dad and brother...

 

[lokiblossom]

I also believe the coir (fibres) found were brought in as packing material for shipping which was standard practice at the time through all of the trade routes. The dating of the coir is suspect as c14 dating has a wide range of parameters, but even if close...it was common to be used as packing material, and where Loki and I disagree, reused over and over from one port to another, as it too was an expensive commodity that would have to be shipped thousands of miles to use 'new' just to pack items in.

Yes R2, we do disagree on these points and I do reserve the right to answer any time you bring this up.

All three of the datings of the coconut fibre has been consistently pre columbian which IMHO leaves little doubt that it was. The use of the fibre was not standard practice through all of the trade routes although I do agree some could have been transported to the Western Mediterranean and then reused but even at that the dating is still a problem for your premise.

My premise has a group that knowingly traded in the Eastern Med. traveling back to France at the right period (1307) with many sea worthy-vessels and then escaping France with these same vessels and disappearing (this is part of a testimony of one of the Templar leaders himself). I also produce premises that allow these same vessels (a couple of them) to have traveled to Nova Scotia a year later. There is positive evidence of a secret inner-circle of the Knights Templar, whose ships these were, and the alleged leader of this secret-circle becoming the most wanted man in France after his escape. I should point out that German SS officer Otto Rahn premised much of this same information except that we disagree on the nature of the Grail he searched for.

I might as well continue with; I believe these men first landed on Oak Island in 1308, built a small fortress at New Ross (Charing Cross),later took it down and moved everything to a site near Annapolis Basin.

As for this second site not being recorded by First Nations peoples, Lewis and Clark hid many caches during their expedition which went unseen and were not known of by the local tribes of Native Americans.

Cheers, Loki

 

[Roadhse2]

gazzahk....

Joy and i have been round and round on her theory as well...mainly on her photo of the found box and the inconsistencies between what she 'tells' you is there, and isn't, which she finally admitted as "well yes, that is troubling, but I am still 100% right" Of course this woman flies into a rage when questioned at all on her theory, called me every nasty name under the sun and rallied her troops to try to beat me down with words....I'm not the only one to get this treatment as several emailed me warning me how she was and wishing me good luck....hahahaha.... She is convinced she is right, her evidence doesn't back it up...So then she uses another picture of a tar box, that clearly is not the same box as the other box, yet claims it is...on and on...Could there have been tar pits? sure...but the box drains were not part of that process and the finding of one box, that could also be a box for handling fish in process, and that doesn't have the attributes that other tar boxes are known to have won't work for me.

So I put no credence in her theory at all concerning the box drains..book or not

Loki...

You and I will just have to continue to disagree, as the finding of coir to be proof of Templar involvement is just to far of a stretch for me...So no sense in anymore response on my part, but you are welcome to respond anytime you care too, thanks...

 

[lokiblossom]

Loki...

You and I will just have to continue to disagree, as the finding of coir to be proof of Templar involvement is just to far of a stretch for me...So no sense in anymore response on my part, thanks...

Not proof,"evidence". Ok, though I'm sure we will converse again later!

Cheers, Loki

 

[Roadhse2]

To pivot to another 'mystery' on the island...

Who thinks the 90 foot stone story is a bit fishy? Or not...

My thought is if you were placing a stone to entice someone that got to that level to go ahead and dig to set off the water trap, as the story goes...Why in the world would you use an encrypted message that no one can figure out?

It would be a touch more believable if it was in French, Spanish, Portuguese, etc. the native language of whoever supposedly placed it there...but encrypted with symbols no normal digger could figure out? Not buying it...

 

[skybolt]

To pivot to another 'mystery' on the island...

Who thinks the 90 foot stone story is a bit fishy? Or not...

My thought is if you were placing a stone to entice someone that got to that level to go ahead and dig to set off the water trap, as the story goes...Why in the world would you use an encrypted message that no one can figure out?

It would be a touch more believable if it was in French, Spanish, Portuguese, etc. the native language of whoever supposedly placed it there...but encrypted with symbols no normal digger could figure out? Not buying it...

Excellent point. IMO, since almost 50 years passed between the time the first story (article) came out in the 1850's and when this stone was supposedly first discovered (I'm assuming in the early 1800's), too much time had elapsed for all the accounts to be true. 50 years is a fairly long time to allow for facts to get jumbled with wishful thinking and exaggerated accounts.

 

[Honest Samuel]

This is the first time I am learning about a 90 foot stone story.

 

[treasure1822]

Excellent point. IMO, since almost 50 years passed between the time the first story (article) came out in the 1850's and when this stone was supposedly first discovered (I'm assuming in the early 1800's), too much time had elapsed for all the accounts to be true. 50 years is a fairly long time to allow for facts to get jumbled with wishful thinking and exaggerated accounts.

Interesting thoughts, but IMO I added a factor which is the idea that the party which went to all this trouble already had a specific "seeker" in mind. I mean, during the inquisitions of the Knight's Templar who is to say what King Phillip the IV of France had learned from the "tortured Knight's". The Grand Master, De Molay himself confessed to heresy, maybe they were counting on the King and the Pope knowing more about the secrecy of the order.