No pics....but PLEASE be sitting down for this.....

[PhotoTJ]

Count me in with the 'ask permission, there is no legit claim' bunch. Worst case scenario, the farmer says no. Oh, well, you can't find them all.

 

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[The Seeker]

What is so great about that area is , it ,may have not had any recorded information regarding it! if thats the case , those two guys know they have something that big there that they are hunting. Then you come along and now the area has been discovered by more than one party. So my best guess is to talk to the farm owners and ask for permission ....Let the other guys deal with the owner them selves. Now for researching that time period, Maps from the very early 1800's and the 1700's are hard to come by with detailed information. There may be some literature about the site but that could be very time consuming trying to find something written about what happened on that site 200 years ago! Good Luck HH

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Rusty it's true, the American Indian did not understand the concept of a single person owning land, theirs was not owned by an individual brave or person, but rather it was owned (their territory) by the tribe or tribes as a whole and at times as a confederation. The tribes lay claim to vast areas of land which bordered certain land marks.

The Northern Plains Tribes knew who owned which area and to ventured on it un-invited was at their own risk of life unless they were allies. To them it was simply known as Souix land, Crow land, Cheyenne Land, and the most feared Blackfeet land .

The Blackfoot Confederacy consisted of four different tribes, the Pikuni/Peigan, North Peigan Pikuni, Blood/Kainai, and Blackfoot/Siksika. The Blackfoot reigned over the northern Plains region of southern Alberta and northern Montana into the mid-nineteenth century. During the nineteenth century, the Blackfoot confederation was the most powerful of the Northern Plains Native groups, and they actually impeded to some extent the westward U.S. expansion. They were one of the most feared tribes of all, and the early trappers knew to enter their land was at the high risk of their life, and a very hard death when caught.

I am not preaching to anyone, but I can't say they didn't own the land they had occupied for thousands of years because they didn't have a white man's title paper. At the very, very least they owned what was given to them by the early treaties, and promised to be theirs forever.

I did not mean to start any arguements I was only adding a twist to the thread on ownership of land by comparsion.

After seeing what they had found on the farmers land I would have drove to the farmers home and offered him money to have the right to MD on his property, and I would have doubled the offer to have exclusive rights to hunt. Then you could have run off anyone you found there.

 

[EDDE]

hey the American Indian artifact forum is over on another side of the forum
or pm each other about your knowledge of Indians
other then that it has no pertenant reason to be here

 

[jeff of pa]

hey the American Indian artifact forum is over on another side of the forum
or pm each other about your knowledge of Indians
other then that it has no pertenant reason to be here

http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php?board=89.0

Keep it Civil, It's History, Not Current Events.

And History is always Manipulated to satisfy the Story Teller.

 

[EDDE]

i left the link out i didnt want to cut in on your action jeff

 

[1235CE]

Re: No pics....but PLEASE be sitting down for this.....(UPDATE)

What a thread guys, wow.....thanks for all of your suggestions....I did not get to go back yesterday morning but did use some time last night at the local watering hole for some lively conversation on the topic.....I apparently have no upstanding members of my community because they all wanted me in Ninja gear in that field last night...lol...a couple more beers and it might have happened....lol......

This what I did do yesterday.....I went to the library and found the field on a map from 1887.....it was a field in 1887 and that's all I know, couldn't find an older map. .....O.K., we have now determined it has been a field for awhile...lol

Didn't sleep well and then my phone rings at 6am this morning, it's my brother/detecting partner....says he is willing to call in sick today if I wanted to go check out the spot.....Well, O.K., there's my instant back-up.

Arrived at the field around 7:30am, talked about the possibilities all the way there, fun conversation.....

We parked at a little foot bridge just past the field (just out of view of the farmhouse on the hill) and just stared at the field for awhile while we finished our coffee's......My brother wholeheartedly wanted to walk the brook upstream behind the field and poke around where we could not be seen but it really wasn't near where I know the coins came from......he just kept saying "the coins must be EVERYWHERE!....LOL

Just as we are debating what to do we hear a tractor start up at the house and I said "screw it, I'm going up and ask the guy.....left my brother at the car and walked up the hill......it was a young kid on the tractor and I say to him "Do you happen to know who own the field across the road?"......He said "We do"......I then proceed to start into a conversation about me having metal detecting as a hobby, blah, blah... and he stops me and said that I should talk to his father and he goes into the barn to get him.......He YELLS to his father and says "Someone is here that wants to dig in the field!!"......uugghh....

He comes out, I say my name is Greg and go to shake his hand but his hand was all nasty with something so he doesn't shake my hand (awkward).....started to repeat what I was saying to the kid and he says (and this should clear up a few points of debate on this thread) "I'm sorry but I just recently told another guy no and I'm gonna have to say the same thing to you".....All that came out of my mouth was "No problem, enjoy your day" and I walked back to the car.....my brother was crushed and we just drove back home........

So now all I know is that the first 2 guys asked permission (or quite possibly got kicked out after I left them) and if they did get kicked out it ruined it for me and if they detected anyways after being told no then they have pretty big golfballs.....

Anyways, that's the story, I'm again in need of a stiff drink and 2 idiots have 31 Colonials.

Anybody have a Plan B?

Greg

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Might have helped if you had offered some money to lease the right to hunt the field. If you saw what was being found there, it would have been worth the offer.

Something like,

Hello sir, My name is so and so. I have a hobby of metal detecting and I would like to ask you if you would consider leasing me the right to hunt your field for x $. If you would allow me to hunt your field I give you my word all holes will be small and I would cover all holes up as they are dug. If he turned you down, you could ask if I offered you X$ would you consider it.

If he sounds interested at all then you could then talk more money if needed. You decide what it is worth to you to detect.

If it was me I would return, and see if he would consider it. You have nothing to lose, and you might get surprised. The first no might not be the final word. You know the old saying 'money talks".

 

[funkman]

Greg,

The only thing I can think of is try again talking to the farmer and maybe mention to him that you ran into a couple of guys out there detecting before you asked him. I have never had this situation before because I'm new at detecting but figured maybe if you can get on his good side without being a pest, possibly he might turn around and be a nice guy. Heck if you have anothre detector handy bring it along and have him go with you or his son so they can see how much fun it is.
The only other thing I was wondering is, and forgive me if you did mention it, but did the 2 guys you saw tell you they got those coins from that site? I know it is kinda stupid to bring a bunch of great coins with you to a location that you are hunting and I think you had mentioned that this was early in the morning but just being devil's advocate here and just throwing out that maybe they didn't retrieve the coins from that site.

Anyway, good luck with getting permission from there and bad luck to those two clowns that possibly ruined it for you.

Funkman

 

[Boobydoo]

Re: No pics....but PLEASE be sitting down for this.....(UPDATE)

Anybody have a Plan B?

Greg

A possible plan B could be to draft a letter to send to the farmer.

Maybe the farmer would be more willing to give you permission or more condusive to negotiate if it were in writing, like an informal "signed agreement".

Maybe explain everything you did witness, seeing and talking to the other TH'ers. Explain what they had found, that you saw with your own eyes and what these types of finds could be worth and offer the split any booty with the farmer.

Offer to let him or a family member of his come out into the field with you and see the digs for themselves.

It's a tough situation but I wouldn't give up on just yet.
Try to look at it from the farmer's viewpoint and tailor your letter to that.

Good luck!
BDoo

 

[Gypsy Heart]

Re: No pics....but PLEASE be sitting down for this.....(UPDATE)

What a thread guys, wow.....thanks for all of your suggestions....I did not get to go back yesterday morning but did use some time last night at the local watering hole for some lively conversation on the topic.....I apparently have no upstanding members of my community because they all wanted me in Ninja gear in that field last night...lol...a couple more beers and it might have happened....lol......

This what I did do yesterday.....I went to the library and found the field on a map from 1887.....it was a field in 1887 and that's all I know, couldn't find an older map. .....O.K., we have now determined it has been a field for awhile...lol

Didn't sleep well and then my phone rings at 6am this morning, it's my brother/detecting partner....says he is willing to call in sick today if I wanted to go check out the spot.....Well, O.K., there's my instant back-up.

Arrived at the field around 7:30am, talked about the possibilities all the way there, fun conversation.....

We parked at a little foot bridge just past the field (just out of view of the farmhouse on the hill) and just stared at the field for awhile while we finished our coffee's......My brother wholeheartedly wanted to walk the brook upstream behind the field and poke around where we could not be seen but it really wasn't near where I know the coins came from......he just kept saying "the coins must be EVERYWHERE!....LOL

Just as we are debating what to do we hear a tractor start up at the house and I said "screw it, I'm going up and ask the guy.....left my brother at the car and walked up the hill......it was a young kid on the tractor and I say to him "Do you happen to know who own the field across the road?"......He said "We do"......I then proceed to start into a conversation about me having metal detecting as a hobby, blah, blah... and he stops me and said that I should talk to his father and he goes into the barn to get him.......He YELLS to his father and says "Someone is here that wants to dig in the field!!"......uugghh....

He comes out, I say my name is Greg and go to shake his hand but his hand was all nasty with something so he doesn't shake my hand (awkward).....started to repeat what I was saying to the kid and he says (and this should clear up a few points of debate on this thread) "I'm sorry but I just recently told another guy no and I'm gonna have to say the same thing to you".....All that came out of my mouth was "No problem, enjoy your day" and I walked back to the car.....my brother was crushed and we just drove back home........

So now all I know is that the first 2 guys asked permission (or quite possibly got kicked out after I left them) and if they did get kicked out it ruined it for me and if they detected anyways after being told no then they have pretty big golfballs.....

Anyways, that's the story, I'm again in need of a stiff drink and 2 idiots have 31 Colonials.

Anybody have a Plan B?

Greg

Now ....send the farmer a letter. Thank him for his time and ask that if he changes his mind in the future to please call you.

 

[jeff of pa]

Re: No pics....but PLEASE be sitting down for this.....(UPDATE)

Now ....send the farmer a letter. Thank him for his time and ask that if he changes his mind in the future to please call you.

Absolutely Genius Idea !


Just a Suggestion.

Include a $10.00 ($20 if you can afford it) Gift Certificate,
.For a Local restaurant. Preferably one that sells 6 Packs
Just in case he drinks.
And don't forget a Self addressed Stamped Envelope, along with your Phone #

 

[DPBOB]

Re: No pics....but PLEASE be sitting down for this.....(UPDATE)

Now ....send the farmer a letter. Thank him for his time and ask that if he changes his mind in the future to please call you.

Absolutely Genius Idea !


Just a Suggestion.

Include a $10.00 ($20 if you can afford it) Gift Certificate,

.For a Local restaurant. Preferably one that sells 6 Packs
Just in case he drinks.
And don't forget a Self addressed Stamped Envelope, along with your Phone #

NOW THIS SOUND LIKE THE BEST PLAN B

 

[nhbenz]

Well, you had a nice polite approach... good job. But remember the handshake is a good thing... weather greasy, grimy or just plain filthy hands, when I see a worker look at his his hands (contemplating a handshake) I'll say "no problem, I'm a working man" and shake a hand. Although I recognize this might have been his excuse to not seem inviting... (there are plenty of stubborn old-timers in my area) I hope you can work something out with him... definately a great site!

 

[lucky1777]

Thanks Gypsy, that is a very good idea.

 

[Captain Trips]

Hey, at the very least you can live with yourself, knowing you did the right thing in asking permission and accepting his "no" graciously. Now, as to plan B, I like the idea of writing him a letter thanking him for his time, explaining your motivation (emphasizing that you were NOT one of those who dug up his land without permission), and suggest that, should he ever change his mind, you would be glad to enter into a contract with him granting him a specified share of whatever you find.

Good luck, sleep well, and HH!

 

[1235CE]

Thanks for the input Mrs......please see my 'update" post near the end of page one......I was already told "no"......I am currently creating a letter/contract to mail to the farmer and thanks to all of you that suggested that...that is the best plan B........I will post it here for proofing before sending it....maybe later this evening......Also, a few of you have suggested that these 2 guys might not have found the coppers in that field and just wanted to let you know that I saw a few filled holes when the guy showed me the broken bricks in the corner of the field and also, the coins were still all covered with fresh dirt......and more importantly, I know excitement when I see it....

Chat with all of you soon and thanks for all the imput so far....

HH all!
Greg

 

[jeff of pa]

No Contract !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Just a Thank you & a "IF" you ever change your mind.
an S.A.S.E. & Phone#. & if you wish the Gift Certificate "For his Time"

The Contract is way too Forward.
you'll Most Definately scare him off.

Trust Me !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

at the most, the comment you would be willing to share.

 

[Heavy Chevy]

Ok Gang,

First i would have shaken his hand. No matter what. That is common courtesy for country folk. It is almost an insult not too. But what is done is done.
Wait a few weeks and go back to the area.

Here are some things that may work.
Ask him if he or his son know of anyplace near where you can search. Be friendly but be real. If he knows a place ask him or his son to go with you.Show them how you recover items and cover up holes so farm animals don't break legs.

If he has farm animals,ask if your children,nieces or nephews, or better yet the childrens Sunday school class can see the sheep , goats , cows, chickens, etc.

If he has crops, corn, wheat,tomatos,offer to purchase some from him. Most farmers money is tight,so he may appreciate cash money.

These are some options that may get you in the door. You wont be able to go metal detecting the first few times but after a while you may grow on him.
Just always be yourself and i dont care if he has horse sh-t on his hands, offer to shake his hand. That is trust.

And once you do get permission, always share what you find with him as it is his property, he has to pay taxes on it every year.

Just a few suggestions,

Mike in SC

PS: And when aswering any questions, use a lot of "Yes sir and No sirs".
So even if you are a city boy he will know you were raised right. Remember you are trying to make a friend. LOL

 

[LadyDigger]

Well, as for detecting that farm land....ask the farmer...worse he can say is NO....but hope that is not the case for you. Give it a shot....can't hurt to ask. (ADDED: Saw your update...sorry you were told no....was hoping for a better outcome...hope the letter helps....lots of great advice here, and take note...I AM TAKING NOTES Thank you all)

As for us...we have only been doing this since April (2006) and one thing my PA taught me was "Always treat another's property better than you would treat your own." In other words, if you borrow something from a friend, make sure you return it in better condition than what it looked like when he lent it to you.

I see the same with detecting. I have the highest respect for the law and I will go out of my way to stay within the bounderies of the law. I see so much land out here for prime detecting, whether it's been detected before or not...I don't care...it's just the thrill for me to find anything....that visits to the courthouse is coming as soon as the kids are back in school to find who owns these lands. We even drove around and took pics of the lands of interest and some with posted signs (some with names and numbers on them)....

I for one, will not, in any shape, form or size, discredit this hobby (or profession for some). If anything, I want to leave the owner with a good feeling about detectors!!!!

I have to smack my hubby back to reality sometimes.....sometimes he does not think straight. I tell him...WE GET PERMISSION FIRST, then we detect...and his answer everytime...I KNOW I KNOW!!! But we know inside he is thinking "#*&$)&)@".....LMAO

HH all, Ann

PS: Have to add...with the genealogy work I do in this area (writing a book to publish the largest family history of any city, which includes Va Bch, Chesapeake and Norfolk. These are the major cities I am working on)...anyways...I use my detecting as a way to research the land and the ppl that was in this area. That is my approach and my HONEST APPROACH...no punches and no BULL!!!