Nice Bell Found at Shipwreck Site...with pictures.

[ScubaFinder]

Well, it was a "theory to speculate on" that got me into this silly treasure hunting business in the first place. And things like this are why I'm still here doing it. The never ending mysteries insure that boredom never returns....

With all the great minds here I have no doubt we will know the true origin and destination of this bell soon. Thanks again for all the help and input.

 

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[RELICDUDE07]

This maybe of help.Its from 1640 showing what i guess is the jesuit mission's..

 

[Mackaydon]

The title to that chart is "Ignatius of Loyola's International Geopolitical Jesuit Empire, 1640".
The engraving was part of the centennial celebrations for the Jesuits.
One version can be found here: http://christkeep.com/articles/jesuit_order.html

 

[ivan salis]

the IHS ( meaning jesus) and sun rise type marking are without a doubt -- jesuit order related * 1639 was indeed the 100th year of the "founding" of the order -- the jesuits started many missions in florida but after heavy losses of personnel with little fiscal gain --they pulled out and left the area "open" for other orders to recruit converts --the jesuits often tended to stay in south america and other gold / silver mining locations --using religion to help control the masses of indians in those regions that were used a labors.

 

[elle]

Ok...making progress.
The "IHS MARIA" could definately be the Jesuit establishment (mission) of Jesus Maria.

I am going farther with this angle rather than Santa Maria mission or church.

It was most likely abbreviated on the bell to save room.

There are a few Jesus-Maria establishments in South America. Remember it was only 100 years after the Jesuits formed and started to come to the New World. This was considered a very new establishment.

Can we have a closer view, Jas, of the 1639 on the bell? We need to make sure that the "9" is not a "5" to equal 1635.

Laura

 

[old man]

Nice find. Congratulations!!

 

[ivan salis]

IHS (meaning jesus) is the orders "mark" so to speak along with the "rising sun" symbol --the jesuits saw it as if they were are bringing "the enlightenment" of christ the son of god to the heathens to lead them from the "darkness" of their normal lives -- thus the " rising sunlight" as a symbol of "enlightenment" for the order. --- a new dawn for the heathens (of course they promptly put the "converts" to work in the gold or silver mines or other things that help to benefit the church) ---maria --is of course spanish for "mary" the holy mother of christ.--the santa or saint in spanish would of course be understood as automatically "implied" --as in == Jesus & St Mary .---it could be a ships bell cast & "blessed" by the order * and sold to the ship owner for holy "protection" (seaman were a very superstious lot)--or a mission bell.

 

[ScubaFinder]

Thanks guys...and Gal. Laura, here is the best pic I have of the 9 in 1639, was trying to get a detail of the sunburst and caught the 9 also. I've been thinking the same thing...that old messed up Spanish 5. I'm not sure, it's not exactly like the other 5's I've seen, but it's not quite a 9 either now is it. LOL

 

[elle]

The one Jesus Maria coming up from the bell's time frame is located in Argentina.
The Jesuit church and mission were built in 1618.
The town...a current population of 27,000...is presently named Jesus Maria.

The Jesuits were very active in Argentina in the 1600's...with their old university in Cordoba.
This might be a possible speculation and in 1635 or 1639 (I need to see a better picture of the date because sometimes the 9's were actually 5's in the lettering) the bell was cast by the Jesuits to be sent there as a gift for the established church and mission.

Ok...now I see the date. That is a "5," Scubaman of the Hispaniola Seas!....LOL.

 

[RELICDUDE07]

I wonder why 19 sunburst?You know they had a reason

 

[bucketofguts]

What a lovely bell!

 

[elle]

http://books.google.com/books?id=V5...the+agrarian+development#v=onepage&q=&f=false


In this book ....go to PAGE 24. It says that by 1640 the boundaries of the Jesuit ranch area of Jesus Maria had already been established.

I'll let you know if I get any other nibbles. You have a great find and just think what could be scattered from the rest of the ship!

Congratulations and Good Luck!
Laura

 

[Mackaydon]

I agree; last number is a five, like here:
http://www.coins.nd.edu/ColCoin/ColCoinImages/Sp-milled-1/Sp-1R-Mo-1735.rev.jpg

 

[MORE AND BEYOND OSSY]

Congratulations, Jason and Team Beautiful piece of history you have.
Ossy

 

[lamar]

Dear Scubafinder;
First, CONGRATULATIONS!!! That is a postively WONDERFUL find, my friend!!! Now down to business. Let us clear the decks just a bit and then we can begin to break it down into it's component parts:

First, IHS does not stand for "Iesus Hominum Salvator". This is a very common misconception, as is the theory that it stands for "In Hoc Signo" and several other lesser phrases. The initials IHS are a Christogram, in fact, it's one of Christianity's earliest Christograms. The initals IHS were derived from the classical Greek letters, "Iota Eta Sigma" or simply "ΙΗΣ". The letters Iota Eta Sigma are the first 3 letters of the name of Jesus, hence the term "Christogram". Translated from classical Greek into Western Latin of the Middle Ages, the correct initials are IHS.

Now, the Christogram *IHS* is not necessarily a Jesuit Christogram, as it has been in existence and in continual use since at least the early Middle Ages, however the Society of Jesus (the Jesuits) adopted this particular Christogram and as such, it is now a part of the official seal. What leads me to believe the Christogram is in fact Jesuit in origin is the final initial "S". Very few Western Europeans abbreviated the Christogram as IHS and it is far more common to see the same Christogram annotated as IHC. Very few scholars realized that the Latin letter S more closely represented the Greek letter Sigma, and it is therefore a common mistake to see IHS abbreviated as IHC. The Jesuits were practically the only Catholic Order which were so thoroughly schooled in the classical languages that they seldom committed errors such as this.

Moving onward, the sun symbol depicting the cross is definitely Jesuit in nature and origin and the Sun has always been incorporated into the official seal of the Society of Jesus, even today. In fact, the current seal is comprised of the letters IHS with a cross extending upwards from the crossbar of the H, with 3 nails below the Christogram, depicting Christ's cruxification, surrounded by the Sun as is depicted in the rendition of the seal below.

Therefore, one can practically ascertain that the bell was in fact a Jesuit artifact and it was most likely either destined for, or brought from, a Jesuit mission in Central or South America. I feel that the words MARIA ANNODE are a name and they do not describe the word YEAR or an action. The year "1639" would most likely be the year in which the mission was established, therefore this is where I would be my research.
Your friend;
LAMAR

 

[lamar]

Dear Scubafinder;
The bell is almost certainly a mission bell and not a ship's bell as it's too large and the stock s different from those trypically found on ship's bells. Also, the fact that it's Jesuit leads me to believe that it was either bound for, or came from, a Jesuit mission, established in 1639 or 1635, with the name MARIA in it. Maria Annode could have been the Latin name for Mary of the harvest.
Your friend;
LAMAR

 

[Salvor6]

Ossy I'm a little surprised by your post. The bell obviously came from a Spanish wreck. Don't you think Jason should return it to Spain?

 

[signumops]

Jason!!
Cowabunga!!

 

[Darren in NC]

Very nice, my friend. It's a great find for a great group who loves history and treasure.

 

[Panfilo]

There is little doubt that your beautiful bell was Jesuit made for one of their churches in the Americas, there are several similar bells in Spain and in Southamerica: this one for example from the Toledo catherdral has almost identical markings: "IHS Maria Joseph anno de 1737". Observe the same cross and pedestal, identical.
Has anybody any doubts? The jesuits who have been very enterprising and business oriented (they got themselves expelled from countries like this!) would undoubtedly have liked to have their own fleet of ships with their own bells and routes but no it never happened. This bell is for a church or a chapell, no ship! She will surely get you to a very interesting wreck very close by who will surely have its own bell. Good luck!
La campana tiene una jaculatoria, habitual a partir del siglo XVIII, escrita en griego y latín, así como la fecha "IHS # MARIA # IOSEPH # ANNO # DE # M DCC XXXVII # "
El anagrama de Jesús, que debieron escribir "IHΣ", corresponde a la abreviatura de IHΣUΣ, y se escribe usualmente como IHS. Otra variante JHS procedería del latín, aunque la segunda letra es la Eta o E larga griega. Fue introducido como devoción por San Bernardino de Siena (ver San Bernardino de Siena y el Anagrama de Jesús). Su significado es polivalente: para unos es el inicio del nombre de Jesús en griego, para otros son las siglas latinas de IESVS HOMO SALVATOR (JESÚS SALVADOR DEL HOMBRE).
El texto puede traducirse como JESÚS, MARÍA Y JOSÉ. AÑO DE 1737.
En el medio hay una cruz con pedestal y faltan elementos para identificar el autor de la campana