New site?...with different clue versions?

[arcana-exploration]

So your drone footage is time and date stamped on the footage? If not its your word against the Feds and you know who wins that one?
Resetting file date on a computer file will not prove anything, has to be on the recording itself. Thing is even before the wording came out about drones themselves, it was illegal to use any motorized vehicle before you even started hunting in AZ by the information I saw.
https://wildernesswatch.org/newsroom/releases.html
Wilderness Act of 1964 specifically states no motorized vehicles or aircraft.
View attachment 1722189
Drones fall under the no motorized equipment law, so you had a drone prior to 1964?
Next question: How many people will be in your party on the next outing? this includes support staff and all.
Next thing I notice that there are firearms being worn in your pictures when in the commission of State and Federal Crimes.
Then how are you going to obtain samples of minerals while out there? breaking rocks? if so you are violating state law
https://geology.com/minerals/legal-aspects-of-rock-collecting/
https://azstateparks.com/archaeological-site-etiquette
By your own words you have made claims to the site being archaeological, so even picking up a rock is a violation, moving anything even just to look under it is a violation.
Are you ready to get on a plane and come to the Tonto National Wilderness now?
It would then end with you not being able to publish your book, as it is illegal to publish material about your crimes for profit.
18 U.S.C.S. § 3681

The drones are not a concern, we have that covered. Also, we not mining or breaking any surface. and we checked you can pick up things from a rubble pile, it is done all the time. Also, it is not archaeological yet we just found some stuff of interest and after we documenting it we will turn our findings over to the proper folks. Also, people find stuff all the time there is not a crime in that, everything you have mentioned we have covered and oh by the way we have retained an archaeologist who works with Indian tribes on exactly this kind of stuff. She is in the western united states and is guiding us along, she is my neighbor, cousin,(Rodger just worked on my neighbor's husband Harley). and we have been working with her for over a year, she knows her stuff. Oh and rubble pile is where we got the sample on the ground in front. the other stuff we are just getting Also the rubble pile is not at all close to the other stuff.

 

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[Al D]

The drones are not a concern, we have that covered. Also, we not mining or breaking any surface. and we checked you can pick up things from a rubble pile, it is done all the time. Also, it is not archaeological yet we just found some stuff of interest and after we documenting it we will turn our findings over to the proper folks. Also, people find stuff all the time there is not a crime in that, everything you have mentioned we have covered and oh by the way we have retained an archaeologist who works with Indian tribes on exactly this kind of stuff. She is in the western united states and is guiding us along, she is my neighbor, cousin,(Rodger just worked on my neighbor's husband Harley). and we have been working with her for over a year, she knows her stuff. Oh and rubble pile is where we got the sample on the ground in front. the other stuff we are just getting Also the rubble pile is not at all close to the other stuff.

The more information you post, the more I am convinced that you have not found the LDM

 

[azdave35]

The drones are not a concern, we have that covered. Also, we not mining or breaking any surface. and we checked you can pick up things from a rubble pile, it is done all the time. Also, it is not archaeological yet we just found some stuff of interest and after we documenting it we will turn our findings over to the proper folks. Also, people find stuff all the time there is not a crime in that, everything you have mentioned we have covered and oh by the way we have retained an archaeologist who works with Indian tribes on exactly this kind of stuff. She is in the western united states and is guiding us along, she is my neighbor, cousin,(Rodger just worked on my neighbor's husband Harley). and we have been working with her for over a year, she knows her stuff. Oh and rubble pile is where we got the sample on the ground in front. the other stuff we are just getting Also the rubble pile is not at all close to the other stuff.

surely you aren't basing all this on a sample you picked up off the dump pile?

 

[sailaway]

Dave don't you wish it was that easy?, If so both of us would have nice samples to show!, and not be in jail! (no neither of us are, but would be if we took samples from our sites)

Hum, now his neighbor/cousin lives in the Western U.S.?, Works with the Natives?, and is an Archaeologist? All that is contradictory! Repatriation is Natives taking things back from Archaeologist!
Guess he moved from Ohio?

Jeff, Your cousin could be in a world of trouble if you are basing legality of your venture on her as it is also illegal to give legal advice without being a member of the Bar. Nowhere did I quote the mining law of 1872. You should contact the Ranger at Mesa and find out the true facts about what you can or can not do out there, especially when it comes to dealing with human sites older than 100 years.
The National Wilderness Preservation System (NWPS) of the United States protects federally .... Antiquities Act of 1906, National Historic Preservation Act of 1966, and the Archaeological Resources Protection Act of 1979.
https://www.fs.fed.us/lei/archeological-resources-protection.php
I posted links so you could look it up yourself but that did not work even when you copy and paste a quote.
Yet you claim to have shown more than anyone on this site? Have you taken the time to read all post by everyone on here, including mine?

 

[Al D]

No, one and I mean no one has shown anything close to what we have already and even told everyone

I think you need a reality check
you have provided nothing in the way of real evidence or information, in fact you have not even established a logical reason why your location could be the LDM.
you expect the members of this site to just believe you without question, well, few people have ever earned that privilege.
Wayne was far more accommodating than the rest of us and yet, you now alienate him as well.
your story reads like a con game to sell a book.
sorry if this also offends you.

 

[Hal Croves]

The gold stash, if it exist, is most likely, Not Jesuit. Look at the huge amount of work that went into the system in the Superstitions, the mesquite forest, the numerous old caves, the charcoal pits, the trail markers, the Jesuits did not have the manpower to accomplish any of that. It is more likely, in my opinion, that the Jesuits found the gold operation sometime after 1751 because after the Pima uprising in 1751, the Spanish punished the Pima by killing most of the young men decimating the population, it was the Pima that kept the Apache in check and out of the mountains, but after the Spanish operation, there were no Pima's left who could fight the Apache and then the Apache moved into the mountains and killed the Spanish who were working there
the Jesuits heard about it and went in to give them a proper burial and discovered the gold operation.

One of the best considered scenarios that I have read alan m.

 

[azdave35]

The drones are not a concern, we have that covered. Also, we not mining or breaking any surface. and we checked you can pick up things from a rubble pile, it is done all the time. Also, it is not archaeological yet we just found some stuff of interest and after we documenting it we will turn our findings over to the proper folks. Also, people find stuff all the time there is not a crime in that, everything you have mentioned we have covered and oh by the way we have retained an archaeologist who works with Indian tribes on exactly this kind of stuff. She is in the western united states and is guiding us along, she is my neighbor, cousin,(Rodger just worked on my neighbor's husband Harley). and we have been working with her for over a year, she knows her stuff. Oh and rubble pile is where we got the sample on the ground in front. the other stuff we are just getting Also the rubble pile is not at all close to the other stuff.

like i have said a few times ..if you are going to hunt lost mines..you better have an experienced miner with you....going into an old mine is a very dangerous undertaking if you aren't experienced ..alot of the locals have been all over that area you are in..jim hatt..clay worst...ron feldman tom kollenborn to name a few...jim hatt found a mercury mine in tortilla canyon area that had raw mercury in it..in my opinion that's what gave him cancer and killed him..mercury volatilizes at room temp and when its 110 out it really off gasses...another friend of mine got cadmium poison from the dust in an old mine he was working..do yourself a favor and at least take an MSHA safety course before you delve any deeper in an old mine ..last but not least...just because you found an old mine doesn't mean it's a gold mine...the mexican miners that were in there didn't have a store they could go to for supplies so they had to mine alot of the metals they needed ...lead for bullets ..mercury to collect the gold in their arrestras ..they also used lead for a collector when assaying or smelting ...in other words,,,all that glitters is not gold

 

[Hal Croves]

I think you need a reality check
you have provided nothing in the way of real evidence or information, in fact you have not even established a logical reason why your location could be the LDM.
you expect the members of this site to just believe you without question, well, few people have ever earned that privilege.
Wayne was far more accommodating than the rest of us and yet, you now alienate him as well.
your story reads like a con game to sell a book.
sorry if this also offends you.

Its a familiar pattern with enthusiastic LDM hunters.

But back to the initial question...
Can ANYONE offer an example of a natural, Rock Face, Head, or God-like figure formation in the Superstitions?

arcana-exploration claims to have found something that "most likely" is a rock Thunder-God formation. We have to wait for the book.

Ron & Tom claim to have seen several. Photos I believe were taken.
"Well, there is the most perfect one there in all the mountains, and trust me I've seen a few."

Any other examples?

 

[sailaway]

Hal I posted 3 photos in post #182, have lots more but thought 3 was enough. Are they Natural or carved I could not say.

 

[deducer]

Also, are you able to answer rk85044's original question asked on page one about Thunder Head Sculptures, etc?
Do you know rk85044?

Hal,

I don't think he's going to answer his own question.

 

[Hal Croves]

I missed this post.
Great photographs.

"Named by the Feds & State"
Any examples?

Wayne, by what I have read they have not entered any mine yet. They plan on retrieval of samples if any are found.....
What they have are surface samples of quartz. Does not say contained gold


there are lots out there hal, even some that are Named by the Feds and State. (below post)
View attachment 1722110View attachment 1722111View attachment 1722117
just like I have lots of rock horses out there

 

[markmar]

Its a familiar pattern with enthusiastic LDM hunters.

But back to the initial question...
Can ANYONE offer an example of a natural, Rock Face, Head, or God-like figure formation in the Superstitions?

arcana-exploration claims to have found something that "most likely" is a rock Thunder-God formation. We have to wait for the book.

Ron & Tom claim to have seen several. Photos I believe were taken.
"Well, there is the most perfect one there in all the mountains, and trust me I've seen a few."

Any other examples?

Hi Hal

Nice to meet you again.
Here is a modified pic which shows a natural face/head close to a natural horse head landmark. of course is from the Superstitions.
I added more contrast to be more recognizable the face.

 

[arcana-exploration]

Hi Vic...

Wayne, I missed your post on the arrow, -- It is below the heart to the right of the dagger, and is pointed at the triangle in the heart, IYO, what is telling us. Oh to the person that mentioned my cousin, it reads my NEIGHBORS, cousin NOT. MY COUSIN. You know Wayne, in the end, we either have something credible, or we do not, we do things correctly by the law cover asses or we do not, either way, it is on us

 

[Hal Croves]

Hi Hal

Nice to meet you again.
Here is a modified pic which shows a natural face/head close to a natural horse head landmark. of course is from the Superstitions.
I added more contrast to be more recognizable the face.

View attachment 1722309

Thank you.
Its good to read your posts again.


Anyone have a photo of Ron & Tom's "stoneface" to share?

 

[Hal Croves]

Has your goal changed?
"My goal on this site was really to include the guys on this site who felt deserved in some crazy way to be part of it and feel included, but I can see that was sadly mistaken."

If you honestly want to include TN Members, post a photograph of your Thunder-God.
Most of us want "to be part of it and feel included".

Good Luck.

Hi Vic...

Wayne, I missed your post on the arrow, -- It is below the heart to the right of the dagger, and is pointed at the triangle in the heart, IYO, what is telling us. Oh to the person that mentioned my cousin, it reads my NEIGHBORS, cousin NOT. MY COUSIN. You know Wayne, in the end, we either have something credible, or we do not, we do things correctly by the law cover asses or we do not, either way, it is on us

 

[sailaway]

Hal the photos I posted are not named but found by me, they are all by the cliff dwellings in Angel Basin. When standing on the East side, above the Dwellings all are within sight. There are many more all from Rogers Trail head to Rt 88 on Fish creek. On a trail from Tortillia Flat is one Called Geronomo's Head, One by the San Carlos reservation called Apache God,.I would rather let my brothers there on the reservation name my pictures as I would use Cherokee names and feel that is not right. I would love to name one Amo-sgasite https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cherokee ( I Believe Wikipedia has it wrong as the war Department in 1812 had it as Ama-Kahallia My limited Cherokee knows "AMA" as water) for the Creek Indian Chief Dreadful Waters. And, yes, I am descendant of the Mississippi Mound builders in Alabama.

 

[Hal Croves]

Hal the photos I posted are not named but found by me, they are all by the cliff dwellings in Angel Basin. When standing on the East side, above the Dwellings all are within sight. There are many more all from Rogers Trail head to Rt 88 on Fish creek. On a trail from Tortillia Flat is one Called Geronomo's Head, One by the San Carlos reservation called Apache God,.I would rather let my brothers there on the reservation name my pictures as I would use Cherokee names and feel that is not right. I would love to name one Amo-sgasite https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cherokee ( I Believe Wikipedia has it wrong as the war Department in 1812 had it as Ama-Kahallia My limited Cherokee knows "AMA" as water) for the Creek Indian Chief Dreadful Waters. And, yes, I am descendant of the Mississippi Mound builders in Alabama.

Yes, one called Geronimo's Head.

 

[sailaway]

arcana-exploration post #201
she is my neighbor, cousin,(Rodger just worked

it reads my NEIGHBORS, cousin NOT. MY COUSIN.

if your neighbors then how is she out west?
Too many holes in the story, it is making my head hurt.

 

[somehiker]

Hi Vic...

Wayne, I missed your post on the arrow, -- It is below the heart to the right of the dagger, and is pointed at the triangle in the heart, IYO, what is telling us. Oh to the person that mentioned my cousin, it reads my NEIGHBORS, cousin NOT. MY COUSIN. You know Wayne, in the end, we either have something credible, or we do not, we do things correctly by the law cover asses or we do not, either way, it is on us

OK.
That symbol is what we've usually called the "triangle-slash".
You have to keep in mind that the heart has been carved out of the stone.....not an easy thing to do without risk of breaking the stone....and that at least two hearts were carved that fit the "excavation". One is from reddish stone, which has what are probably landscape features on the "outside" surface , since some of them begin and/or end beyond the borders of the stone. These do not exist within the excavated portion. Also on the "outside" are several symbols....another triangle at the end of a curved line from the number "1" to the left "outside" of the surface level.....a "circle within a circle" to which that triangle seems to point, and is also the 20th "place" on the dotted trail.......a symbol which many believe represents "omega", but which I believe indicates a dome or something covered over, in this case the heart excavation. Also worthy of note, is that there are several meanings for the Latin "Domus", which can be found in three places on the Latin Heart.....https://www.wordhippo.com/what-is/t...ed4a1e1f6d522ef29ac27d8506d149b2755a4489.html -----one being "philosophical school".....and the "X", which on the outside, lies over the "inside" triangle.
So what's it all mean ?
I'll give you something to ponder.....
If a straight line is drawn along the centerline of the cross thrust forward by the Priest, what exactly does it point to ?
So why is that particular symbol where one would begin to make the letter "A" ?
And why the letter "A" ? Does it represent "alpha", and/or correspond with the # 1 on the upper trail stone, the curved line and triangle which points to the same "symbol" ?



And BTW:
All of us should be cognizant of the laws pertaining to our activities out there, in both the Tonto NF and the SWA.
But you would be better informed of what you can or can't legally do out there by checking the rules posted on each entity's website.
Sometimes our friend gets a bit carried away with all that can't do nothin stuff.
That's not a dig though, since he wasn't the only one who thought such a thing was possible.
Post #2550.....http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/lost-dutchman-s-mine/344831-do-stone-tablets-lead-somewhere-other-than-superstition-mtns-170.html
...last post on the page.

And as far as having the FS step in on yours or any other site which could be proven to be the LDM goes.
The last thing they would want to do, is to publicly declare the legend and mine to be genuine and historic in nature.
Most they'd do is confiscate any gold ore you happened to have on you....(your proof/their "possible" evidence)...send you packing, and once you are gone, get a crew together to fill any holes you found. That way, you have no mine and no proof, and they don't have to deal with too many news crews,tourists,liability questions should someone get hurt...etc.

 

[arcana-exploration]

OK.
That symbol is what we've usually called the "triangle-slash".
You have to keep in mind that the heart has been carved out of the stone.....not an easy thing to do without risk of breaking the stone....and that at least two hearts were carved that fit the "excavation". One is from reddish stone, which has what are probably landscape features on the "outside" surface , since some of them begin and/or end beyond the borders of the stone. These do not exist within the excavated portion. Also on the "outside" are several symbols....another triangle at the end of a curved line from the number "1" to the left "outside" of the surface level.....a "circle within a circle" to which that triangle seems to point, and is also the 20th "place" on the dotted trail.......a symbol which many believe represents "omega", but which I believe indicates a dome or something covered over, in this case the heart excavation. Also worthy of note, is that there are several meanings for the Latin "Domus", which can be found in three places on the Latin Heart.....https://www.wordhippo.com/what-is/t...ed4a1e1f6d522ef29ac27d8506d149b2755a4489.html -----one being "philosophical school".....and the "X", which on the outside, lies over the "inside" triangle.
So what's it all mean ?
I'll give you something to ponder.....
If a straight line is drawn along the centerline of the cross thrust forward by the Priest, what exactly does it point to ?
So why is that particular symbol where one would begin to make the letter "A" ?
And why the letter "A" ? Does it represent "alpha", and/or correspond with the # 1 on the upper trail stone, the curved line and triangle which points to the same "symbol" ?

View attachment 1722360

Wayne that makes total sense the start of this path leads you to the Alpha mine or treasure. I thought that is what it meant metaphorically. but it could be telling the seeker into ways to make them follow along. When I hate to keep saying this but when the book comes I will show what we discovered in relation to Priest stone, The priest stone along with something that is a historical document link to the priest stone they are for real at least the information that the stones were recording. Also, I am really a very respectful guy but one of the other posters has been abrasive and then three times misquoted me I let him have it so I am sure I will be banned. But who moderates what people are saying and if itis a lie. He has done that three times in two days. And before you say anything read what he wrote and what I actually wrote. One time could be a mistake, three times your either a sneaky no life putz or you are the Alpha of Idiots or in his case probably a bit of both. Not to bring but I have worked with some of the finest professional folks out there and I am sitting trying to converse with rude arrogant no life, the Alpha Idiot what the hell am I doing! So there it is. Good luck Wayne i wish, we could have worked together take care Jeff.