new show on the dutchman

[Hal Croves]

They are both crops of larger images taken from about 2-300ft lower and roughly 500' or so away.
I won't share the entire field of view, since someone else may recognize something in it.
But I'll see what I can do.

It might be worth noting here, with regard to the Stone Map Priest, that a sect of Aztec Warriors and/or Priests also wore a pointed hat or headdress.
Could that, or this be the origin of the pointed sombrero ?

A high res crop of just the suspected image. The location is your secret. It looks like organic material when I run it. As opposed to shadows.

Your Aztec priest pointed hat comment is striking a nerve with me. Do you have an example?
Do you know about the sacred "flower" cult?

 

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[somehiker]

Yes.
Left side....note the band half way up. Although this is a warrior, many of which were also priests, there are also depictions of Aztec Priests in full regalia with similarly pointed headgear. But this is a better example of what I am talking about.
There are many more examples shown in the various codices.....drawings of tribute items etc.
Did the original craftsmen who made these hats, continue to make them including the band, but add the wide "sombrero" brim during the Spanish colonial period ?

 

[sgtfda]

Ryan I decided to edit my previous post. No sense digging up old issues. I can't discuss most issues you raised at this time. I was right behind Wayne when he found the arrow head. It was in a small wash. I picked up gold nuggets in a wash near the prayer wheel area laying on bedrock. It was not aired. Funny thing at the treasure hunter awards I approached by the first ever award winner. He is a old Mexican. Can't remember his name off the top of my head. He said the black hand thing is true. He told me the Apache from Mexico followed the Mexican miners to the Superstitions and did them in. First time I heard that.

 

[Hal Croves]

Yes.
Left side....note the band half way up. Although this is a warrior, many of which were also priests, there are also depictions of Aztec Priests in full regalia with similarly pointed headgear. But this is a better example of what I am talking about.
There are many more examples shown in the various codices.....drawings of tribute items etc.
Did the original craftsmen who made these hats, continue to make them including the band, but add the wide "sombrero" brim during the Spanish colonial period ?

View attachment 1133116

Not to sound confrontational because you and I have much in common that doesn't belong on this thread, in this regard but, your example is post-columbian. Those works were heavily influenced by Europeans.

If you and I had the freedom to speculate, openly, over a drink, I would probably argue that it was actually an Olmec tradition, passed along and adopted by the Aztecs. And if we were half in the bag, and you still were listening, I would argue that it was an Asian tradition, left behind with the Olmec from years past.

Speculation.

Have a look at those gauges. Almost identical to those found in the Spiro mound. The world was connected, long before it became, connected.

 

[somehiker]

Yes, of course the artists employed by the Spanish, and others interested in the history were compelled to make some changes in materials, style and technique.
However, they still had the freedom to depict objects and ideas as they remembered them from first hand experience or from history handed down. There are many more examples, some of which are pre-columbian, but you will have to look for those yourself. Not being difficult, since I probably have some in the files on my research computer, but I don't really have the time to look for and transfer them over right now.

Regards:SH.

 

[Hal Croves]

Yes, of course the artists employed by the Spanish, and others interested in the history were compelled to make some changes in materials, style and technique.
However, they still had the freedom to depict objects and ideas as they remembered them from first hand experience or from history handed down. There are many more examples, some of which are pre-columbian, but you will have to look for those yourself. Not being difficult, since I probably have some in the files on my research computer, but I don't really have the time to look for and transfer them over right now.

Regards:SH.

Not problem. It's a fascinating topic.

I looked at that image. The same material that is on that wall, the dark material, is also on the large boulders to the left. Either it's natural, organic, and growing in both locations (need h2o from above) or there are also very old artworks on that boulder. I have seen this dark material near the falls close to that cave in TF that what's his face wrote in. It was natural.

Still cool that your initial post led to all this conversation about the bat cave.

 

[wrmickel1]

Somehiker

What happened to BB. I haven't seen him post in a long time.

Legend has it he moved in with Castusjumper and he's Joes caretaker.

Wrmickel1

 

[Somecaver]

A big thank you!

Enjoyed hearing you and Wayne on the talk show last night, wish I could have called in and said hi.
-Ryan

Ryan,
I was tuned in to the talk show last night as well, and actually called in. (www.goldradiotalk.com) I even tried to debunk the cave/cross thing on the show! Remember? Bobby Freedom, the host, must have gotten a little irritated, as he actually text'ed me about it the next day! You should have called in, and said, "I'm going to the cave tomorrow to find that cross!" I wonder what Wayne's response would have been? I have read all your posts tonight, and agree with your position 100%. My main concern was that as a caver in the NSS (www.caves.org) I was worried about the safety issues for both the would be greenhorn explorer wanna-bee "spelunkers", as well as the bats themselves! As a caver we try to protect caves, (and bats) by keeping their locations as secret as possible! The History Channel in the act of putting that bat cave on the air, and taunting the public showing a "fake" cross in it, thus hinting on possible treasure in the cave, was just reckless endangerment and stupidity on their part. I have lost all respect for them! A BIG THANK YOU Ryan, for debunking the Cross!!! I have shared your information with most of my gold fever buddies!

Hank
Riverside, RI

 

[mpwuzhere]

Healthy lungs are important - thats for sure. Put that cigar away, sir!

Did you notice the cigar was never lit during filming? At least I noticed....

BTW....when I first saw the show one night I saw the cigar and thought of Dirty Harry....then I found out Frank was a former cop...made my day!

Oh...and Frank...my Mom and stepdad are also former sgt's....so thanks for your service. I know us military folk get a lot of kudos...but the guys and gals in blue deserve it too...especially, what was it, thirty years?

 

[djui5]

I've known Frank for years and never seen that cigar lit.

 

[jeff of pa]

I've known Frank for years and never seen that cigar lit.

LOL if he's had that hangin' there for years,
it may not be a good idea to light it

 

[cactusjumper]

I've known Frank for years and never seen that cigar lit.

Randy,

I could swear that I have seen Frank light his cigar at the Rendezvous. They been putting holes in my head lately, so who knows what I have seen. What about it Frank?

Take care,

Joe

 

[djui5]

Maybe so Joe, I spent little time at the last two, unfortunately. I will be there in full force this year.

 

[cactusjumper]

Maybe so Joe, I spent little time at the last two, unfortunately. I will be there in full force this year.

This will be the first Rendezvous I will miss in ten years. I will certainly miss you guys. Dutch Hunters are a special breed.

Take care,

Joe

 

[djui5]

I will be thinking of you

 

[cactusjumper]

 

[Island Maser]

Ryan I said bat cave not the Superstitions. Healthy lungs are more important than all the gold in the world. Someone hands you a cheap paper mask and tells you were going to the bat cave. Tell them to kiss your ass as I did.

The dry heaving was enough to convince me I didn't want to be in that cave. Smart choice. My wife love Woody on the show but I think you have the most style working for you. Don't lose the cigar it's part of your image now.

 

[vastterrain]

This photo was taken in 2012....Frank is a Real badass! Clint Eastwood only played one on the big screen......

 

[deducer]

The History Channel in the act of putting that bat cave on the air, and taunting the public showing a "fake" cross in it, thus hinting on possible treasure in the cave, was just reckless endangerment and stupidity on their part.

Hank,

Just so you know, the History channel is just the distribution company. The production company behind this "creativity" is Go-Go Luckey Entertainment, the same company known for wonders such as "Hot Girls in Scary Places" and "Pagent Moms Unleashed."

 

[RMG1976]

Ryan,
I was tuned in to the talk show last night as well, and actually called in. (Gold Radio Talk:Gold Prospecting Talk Show) I even tried to debunk the cave/cross thing on the show! Remember? Bobby Freedom, the host, must have gotten a little irritated, as he actually text'ed me about it the next day! You should have called in, and said, "I'm going to the cave tomorrow to find that cross!" I wonder what Wayne's response would have been? I have read all your posts tonight, and agree with your position 100%. My main concern was that as a caver in the NSS (The National Speleological Society) I was worried about the safety issues for both the would be greenhorn explorer wanna-bee "spelunkers", as well as the bats themselves! As a caver we try to protect caves, (and bats) by keeping their locations as secret as possible! The History Channel in the act of putting that bat cave on the air, and taunting the public showing a "fake" cross in it, thus hinting on possible treasure in the cave, was just reckless endangerment and stupidity on their part. I have lost all respect for them! A BIG THANK YOU Ryan, for debunking the Cross!!! I have shared your information with most of my gold fever buddies!

Hank
Riverside, RI

Hank from RI!

Of course, I remember your phone call! Unfortunately, I listened to the streaming version of the interview - so by the time I heard it, the show was already over.

Truth be told, Wayne & Frank have no control over what actually airs on the series - and while you tried to "catch Wayne" - he really can't be caught red-handed in a decision that was made by someone else entirely.

I've been ruffling feathers around here for 4 days now. Frank has read all my posts, and probably the other cast members too. Look at what they aren't saying.... (IE: Ryan shut up - there is 100% a cross in there - I guarantee it)

If I were in Wayne, Frank and Woody's shoes - I'd feel really stuck. They have signed a deal memo with the Prod. company to go along with whatever they tell them to. Not only is it their job to play out the character they have devised for them, but to also promote whatever the show ends up airing. Frank seems to be a little more rebellious than Wayne - telling us he told the Prod company to kiss his butt in regard to going up into the bat cave. Not only did Frank know there was nothing there, he knew it was a disease infested bat port-a-potty.

What would be a fantastic phone call would be to get one of the Exec. Producers, Directors, Script writers on a radio show and drill THEM why they chose to portray fake information.

I said in a previous post that I feel that there is some sort of moral responsibility for all the cast members to keep the story as authentic as possible, especially given the amount of blood, sweat, tears and money Frank, Wayne and Woody have put in.....and I still feel that way - so don't think I am changing my position here. The resolution that I have come to, after being the "only one" that has actually got away from the computer and walked out into the Superstitions to fact check the series and report back, but I would like to believe that given foresight into how the episodes turned out, they would have chosen not to insult their other dutch hunting buddies and the legend as a whole.

At the end of the day, Jerry Springer - Honey Boo-Boo - Kardashians - Dance Mom's - Fox News (all big shows, much bigger than this show) have taught viewing audiences that the more ridiculous things are - the higher the viewership. (Ex. - OMG THERE IS A BLACK HAND PAINTED ON THE WALL! GUYS LET'S GET OUT OF HERE!! OMG OMG OMG A MEDICINE WHEEL. SOMEONE IS TRACKING US, SOMEONE IS FIRING A GUN AT US. SOMEONE FOUND OUR CAMPSITE AND LEFT ANOTHER BLACK HAND ON THE ROCK - RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!)

It's America, your neighbors, that have made shows like this happen. People tune in - ratings go up - and production companies follow suit because they can increase the costs of commercial spots. It's all about money.

Look at the other shows Go Go Luckey has produced:

Pageant Moms Unleashed
Stop Drop & Shop
Rich Girl - Pool Girl
The Fashionista Diaries
Hot Girls in Scary Places

The answers are obvious.

So yes - I am still ultra-disappointed that such a brilliant legend is being portrayed like a Kardashian show - but its also important to know where to place the blame.

P.S. I need to learn how to write shorter posts. I'm just a very long winded guy - as a few of the members here can attest to that have talked to me on the phone.