New scammer/flipper

[Goldwasher]

Beware of Mountain Man Mining Corp.

Came across a claim for sale in an area there aren't claims.

Looked into it. The guy is trying to sell a claim. It appears he is waiting to get someone on the hook.

But, don't worry after you pay him. he will "take care of the paperwork"

Then send you recordings and the blm copies.

So, he is selling land that isn't claimed. Will go file and pretend he is transferring it.

Keep him on the radar from the looks of his website he is just getting started.

The one I saw for sale had the typical Historical Jargon...past production. A listing of the MAS #

He does not give a Nv. claim number HUGE red flag so I looked deeper using given coordinates.

Open ground. Not filed at BLM. no claims in the area at all.

He has it listed on ebay as well.

The one he lists on his website thats different also has no info. a search by claim name via BLM generates no such claim.

 

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[Bonaro]

I went to his website and it seems legit. He found unclaimed land, put boots on the ground, tested it and documented what he saw. If what you say is also true, he is basically running a claim location service. He found a piece of open ground and he is assisting others in filing a claim on it, for a fee.
Finding open ground and doing the paperwork is the part of the process that stumps most people who want a claim and I have had many people ask me to do the same for them.

Please tell me where the scam is

 

[Clay Diggins]

From the website:

“Overwatch” Gold Claim Features & Specifications

Type of Claim: Lode
Size of Claim: 40 Acres

I imagine some people could use some help finding and locating mining claims. Some people charge for those services. Nothing wrong with that.

I also imagine IF you were to sell such a service you would need to know enough about the process to do it so the claim would not be void before it was even recorded. There is no such thing as a valid 40 acre lode claim.

Anybody who paid for this "claim" would be rather disappointed when they got the letter from the BLM informing them the "claim" they purchased never legally existed. Bummer.

Scam? Ask the buyer.

Heavy Pans

 

[winners58]

not really sure you can call it a claim until its recorded, just posting a location notice then selling it as a mining claim,
is opening yourself up to someone filing and back dating, having contested claimants would be a bummer after someone has already paid.
looks like it sold;
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Gold-Mine-...993410?hash=item1cd19fc642:g:LYAAAOSw0V1c5Hl8 (click view original)
looks like he sold one in march, that appears to be only filed after the sale date in the new owners name.
I know several people that sell claims that if you tell them you want a claim in a certain area they will find and locate one for them for a reasonable price.
filing several claims and keeping the best ones is okay in my book, misrepresenting a claim, or just a big scam, buyer beware.

 

[Bonaro]

From the website:


I imagine some people could use some help finding and locating mining claims. Some people charge for those services. Nothing wrong with that.

I also imagine IF you were to sell such a service you would need to know enough about the process to do it so the claim would not be void before it was even recorded. There is no such thing as a valid 40 acre lode claim.

Anybody who paid for this "claim" would be rather disappointed when they got the letter from the BLM informing them the "claim" they purchased never legally existed. Bummer.

Scam? Ask the buyer.

Heavy Pans

I would imagine that he would discover the 40 acre error at the time of filing and would then have a conversation with the buyer.
Doing his job poorly (or perhaps a typo) does not make him a scammer as Goldwasher so passionately insists.
I would also imagine that anyone who buys a claim on the internet without even looking at it first deserves everything he bought

 

[Goldwasher]

I went to his website and it seems legit. He found unclaimed land, put boots on the ground, tested it and documented what he saw. If what you say is also true, he is basically running a claim location service. He found a piece of open ground and he is assisting others in filing a claim on it, for a fee.
Finding open ground and doing the paperwork is the part of the process that stumps most people who want a claim and I have had many people ask me to do the same for them.

Please tell me where the scam is

The claims don't exist. the one on his website doesn't... the one he has on ebay,. is easy to find. only problem is that there are no claims there. Not his... not any.

I know the area and came across his claim for sale while looking at something else... and knew there wasn't anything in that area claimed.

so i looked deeper.

Location services find open ground and help you claim it.

people who claim ground to sell it are doing so against the letter and spirit of mining law.

He doesn't have "claims" for sale. he knows where open land is that he will file on for you if your dumb enough to pay him 6k for the "claim" that he doesn't even own.

 

[Goldwasher]

I would imagine that he would discover the 40 acre error at the time of filing and would then have a conversation with the buyer.
Doing his job poorly (or perhaps a typo) does not make him a scammer as Goldwasher so passionately insists.
I would also imagine that anyone who buys a claim on the internet without even looking at it first deserves everything he bought

Guys like him bank on the buyer not knowing and not wanting to deal with it.

i will never feel bad for shining light on claim flippers and scammers like this guy.

Thats why I always tell someone who is asking about buying claims... to not do it if they do not know how to do the due dilligence and location process yourself.

This guy and his ILK prey on those that don't want to go through all of that.

they try to make it seem so complicated that you should just leave it up to them. thats unfortunate because it isn't hard or complicated.

I see red flags all the time do a little more research and find a consitant amount paper claims and claim monger BS.

Nothing wrong with warning people.

Especially when I find someone selling ground they don't have legal title to.

 

[Goldwasher]

not really sure you can call it a claim until its recorded, just posting a location notice then selling it as a mining claim,
is opening yourself up to someone filing and back dating, having contested claimants would be a bummer after someone has already paid.
looks like it sold;
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Gold-Mine-...993410?hash=item1cd19fc642:g:LYAAAOSw0V1c5Hl8 (click view original)
looks like he sold one in march, that appears to be only filed after the sale date in the new owners name.
I know several people that sell claims that if you tell them you want a claim in a certain area they will find and locate one for them for a reasonable price.
filing several claims and keeping the best ones is okay in my book, misrepresenting a claim, or just a big scam, buyer beware.

the newer one just sold too. No location on file at BLM. it will pop once he gos and actually files for the "new" owner.

Shady, AF illegal and unethical.

I will be keeping my eye on him. It will be nice to eventually find out his real name.

I will do what I can to let the proper authorities know as it is fraud.

Flipping a claim is not cool but, the guys do it stay in a grey area as they have actual located filed at BLM and recorded at the county.

This guy is claiming to sell "old mines' that he has no legal right to sell. it's B.S.

 

[Goldwasher]

I went to his website and it seems legit. He found unclaimed land, put boots on the ground, tested it and documented what he saw. If what you say is also true, he is basically running a claim location service. He found a piece of open ground and he is assisting others in filing a claim on it, for a fee.
Finding open ground and doing the paperwork is the part of the process that stumps most people who want a claim and I have had many people ask me to do the same for them.

Please tell me where the scam is

telling people you own something you don't...and will "transfer" it to them after they pay you 6k + is a scam

how is it not?

 

[bug]

I wonder if the guy only does a county filing and then hits blm once he has hooked buyer? So technically he has the "claim" secured in his name and saves the blm fees. But its shady and I dont like it either!

 

[Bonaro]

 

[Goldwasher]

its called integrity.

The more you hold people accountable... the less likely they are to do shady things.

I guess thats a scarce thing theses days.

 

[KevinInColorado]

its called integrity.

The more you hold people accountable... the less likely they are to do shady things.

I guess thats a scarce thing theses days.

Ever heard of Soapy Smith or maybe 3 Card Monty? The scammers have always been there.

 

[firebird]

Ever heard of Soapy Smith or maybe 3 Card Monty? The scammers have always been there.

Yep. Reading about the 19th century gold rush is full of horrible stories of people fighting and killing each other over gold claims. It's a hell of a lot safer today compared to the past.

 

[Goldwasher]

Ever heard of Soapy Smith or maybe 3 Card Monty? The scammers have always been there.

Oh, Kevin. I was looking for your point. But, it must have been scraped off of the plateau a ways back...

A reminder I worked in Alaska for NPS teaching tourists about the 1898 rush and it's characters..

Soapy Smith met a quick end in Skagway. He Showed up in winter and was shot dead through the heart less than a year later by a community member.

Who happened to be on the "committie of the 101" The local vigilance committie formed to deal with such "characters"

Though it was said to be Frank Reid and he is held as the hero. an autopsy showed it wasn't reids bullet that rid the world of the P.O.S Randolph.

J. Randolphs counter "committie of the 303" was no match for citizens who wanted honest commerce and civilized society.

The fact is Randolph was ran out of Denver twice and Creede. He always ran short on friends including the corrupt poloticians and business men he associated with.

Cause he tried to scam them all. The second time in Denver was practically a war, Marshall Law and all. Even with all his corrupt backing Randolph did not prevail.

You see people always grow tired of scammers once they are found out. They tend to move on.

One of Randolphs first scams was burying a "pre historic" looking giant...then creating fanfare by digging it up in front of people.

The namesake soap scam is his most famous yet it was also short lived.

There are four basic types of people I guess.

The scammers....the gullable....the people who are willing to stand up for themselves others and principle...and those that sit to the side and criticize.

What did the minister have to say at Soapy Smiths funeral?

From Proverbs... "The way of the transgressors is hard"

 

[Hoser John]

And the game plays on John

 

[OreCart]

its called integrity.

The more you hold people accountable... the less likely they are to do shady things.

I guess thats a scarce thing theses days.

I think you mean, "It is called CHARACTER."

Not to split hairs, but integrity is based upon a persons actions, so it means doing what they say they will do. In this case that has not been determined because we do not know if he followed through after the exchange of money or not.

I agree with you though, and to me the whole deal sounds fishy, so his CHARACTER comes into question on this. I would think a simple background check would determine what his previous history has been.

 

[Bonaro]

When you want to buy a house you hire a real estate agent, housing inspector, escrow service, title insurer and a mortgage lender. All of these services can be done on your own but it is simpler and safer to hire someone to do it for you. This concept is common in modern life.
What this guy is doing is no different. He may be blurring the lines of claim flipping but that isnt a punishable crime, it just isnt how the mining claim laws were intended to be used and I think it arguable because he doesn't own the claim yet so it would be recorded directly into the buyers name. He is not flipping, he is just doing the paperwork on a new claim on open ground he has located.

It's easy to beat your internet drum, shout "scammer" and insult his integrity but the fact remains that no one has posted any proof that he is not delivering exactly what he advertises.

The number of actual witches burned during the Salem with hunts = 0

 

[OreCart]

When you want to buy a house you hire a real estate agent, housing inspector, escrow service, title insurer and a mortgage lender. All of these services can be done on your own but it is simpler and safer to hire someone to do it for you. This concept is common in modern life.
What this guy is doing is no different. He may be blurring the lines of claim flipping but that isnt a punishable crime, it just isnt how the mining claim laws were intended to be used and I think it arguable because he doesn't own the claim yet so it would be recorded directly into the buyers name. He is not flipping, he is just doing the paperwork on a new claim on open ground he has located.

It's easy to beat your internet drum, shout "scammer" and insult his integrity but the fact remains that no one has posted any proof that he is not delivering exactly what he advertises.

The number of actual witches burned during the Salem with hunts = 0

We understand all that.

And yet, while all those entities are valuable services, all the ones you list are also governed by specific regulated bodies, require certification, or profession licenses. The reason for that is simple; society must have some sort of protection from scammers. In this case, there is none because the amount of cases where this happens is so small.

The real question is in motivation. IF the area in question has valuable minerals, why doesn't the man make the mining claim for himself, and then flip it? Granted there could be various reasons for that, but I find it very difficult to believe that out of the kindness of the mans heart, he has found valuable minerals, and will help a person stake a claim on it...well, for a few thousand dollars. While that could be the case, it could also be that the person is using the added degree of separation, that is, having no paper work in their name, to take the money and run, and leave no legal recourse for the person who paid them.

Yes buyer beware, but the same thing was probably said before regulation and licensing came down hard on real estate agents, housing inspectors, escrow services, title insurers and a mortgage lenders. The fact that the person is operating in a gray area, where there is no regulators watching the store, makes it very suspect.

I do not think GoldWasher is out of line on this, he is simply letting people know, "Buyer Beware." Good for him in saying so.

For some reason some people think that a law has to be broken in order for something to be labeled a scam, and that is just not true. Cash Advance establishments or whatever they are called, are perfectly legal to operate, but they are still scams. It would be like me trying to convince my friend not to go to the establishment for a money advance and me referring to the place as a scam, and then someone overhearing the conversation and saying, "they are not breaking the law so it is not a scam." Oh please, it is best to warn my friend to not even get himself into a position to be taken advantage of.

As for the Salem Witch Trials; you are absolutely right. Here in New England we work far to hard gathering firewood for our cold winters to be wasting valuable BTU's on putting witches to death. That does not mean they were not put to death though. The first one sentenced to death was actually buried by rocks, but when it took three days for that person to die, they resorted to hanging the sentenced people.

My family was unfortunately present during that dark period, and ran the gammon of the nonsense that transpired. One was sentenced and hung. Another acquitted, and another found guilty, sentenced to death, but the act never carried out.

I am not a big fan of witches though. I was married to one for six years; the worst six years of my life. Transportation was great though, she got about 18 bristles to the mile while riding her broom. Sadly, I am not making the first part up. Her, and several of her friends, practiced Wicca and were self-proclaimed witches.

 

[Bonaro]

We understand all that.

And yet, while all those entities are valuable services, all the ones you list are also governed by specific regulated bodies, require certification, or profession licenses. The reason for that is simple; society must have some sort of protection from scammers. In this case, there is none because the amount of cases where this happens is so small.

The real question is in motivation. IF the area in question has valuable minerals, why doesn't the man make the mining claim for himself, and then flip it? Granted there could be various reasons for that, but I find it very difficult to believe that out of the kindness of the mans heart, he has found valuable minerals, and will help a person stake a claim on it...well, for a few thousand dollars. While that could be the case, it could also be that the person is using the added degree of separation, that is, having no paper work in their name, to take the money and run, and leave no legal recourse for the person who paid them.

Yes buyer beware, but the same thing was probably said before regulation and licensing came down hard on real estate agents, housing inspectors, escrow services, title insurers and a mortgage lenders. The fact that the person is operating in a gray area, where there is no regulators watching the store, makes it very suspect.

I do not think GoldWasher is out of line on this, he is simply letting people know, "Buyer Beware." Good for him in saying so.

For some reason some people think that a law has to be broken in order for something to be labeled a scam, and that is just not true. Cash Advance establishments or whatever they are called, are perfectly legal to operate, but they are still scams. It would be like me trying to convince my friend not to go to the establishment for a money advance and me referring to the place as a scam, and then someone overhearing the conversation and saying, "they are not breaking the law so it is not a scam." Oh please, it is best to warn my friend to not even get himself into a position to be taken advantage of.

As for the Salem Witch Trials; you are absolutely right. Here in New England we work far to hard gathering firewood for our cold winters to be wasting valuable BTU's on putting witches to death. That does not mean they were not put to death though. The first one sentenced to death was actually buried by rocks, but when it took three days for that person to die, they resorted to hanging the sentenced people.

My family was unfortunately present during that dark period, and ran the gammon of the nonsense that transpired. One was sentenced and hung. Another acquitted, and another found guilty, sentenced to death, but the act never carried out.

I am not a big fan of witches though. I was married to one for six years; the worst six years of my life. Transportation was great though, she got about 18 bristles to the mile while riding her broom. Sadly, I am not making the first part up. Her, and several of her friends, practiced Wicca and were self-proclaimed witches.

You said it....buyer beware or Caveat Emptor which is the cornerstone of US contract law. Simply put, the seller most often has more information about the value of the sale item that then buyer unless there is a warranty. Hence, do your homework.

Raising a red flag is one thing but labeling someone as unscrupulous or a scammer with no evidence is a scam is just high school gossip. You can keep that ****.

I see claims being sold all the time that would never produce enough gold to cover the cost of purchase, Is this a scam?