Mosasaur Jaw In Matrix

[Gunner]

Picked this up a while back. I like fossils too (aside Ancient Coins)!!! Hope you enjoy it.

Gunner

Mosasaur
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
Mosasaurs
Fossil range: Cretaceous


An etching of Mosasaur
Conservation status
Extinct (fossil)
Scientific classification
Kingdom: Animalia

Phylum: Chordata

Class: Sauropsida

Order: Squamata

Suborder: Lacertilia

Family: Mosasauridae
Gervais, 1853

Subfamilies
Halisaurinae
Mosasaurinae
Plioplatecarpinae
Tylosaurinae


Mosasaurs (from Latin Mosa meaning the 'Meuse river' in the Netherlands, and Greek sauros meaning 'lizard') were serpentine marine reptiles. The first fossil remains were discovered at the Meuse river about 1780. These ferocious marine predators are considered by some experts to be closely related to snakes, due to extreme similarities in jaw and skull anatomies.[1] Mosasaurs were not dinosaurs but lepidosaurs, reptiles with overlapping scales. These predators evolved from semi-aquatic squamates known as the aigialosaurs, close relatives of modern-day monitor lizards, in the Early Cretaceous Period. During the last 20 million years of the Cretaceous Period (Turonian-Maastrichtian), with the extinction of the last ichthyosaurs and the decline of the Cretaceous plesiosaurs and pliosaurs, mosasaurs became the dominant marine predators.

 

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[irbaddadjoe]

Gunner that is way to cool. I also collect fossils and have a nice collection. I like that one . Did you see the new giant raptor they discovered in mongolia. If only they could talk!

 

[Gunner]

No I didn't! Do you have a link or a picture


Gunner

 

[irbaddadjoe]

Read it in the Today paper this morning. Heres a link. still trying find a picture. They say this bird was as big as T-rex.!

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,21905170-30417,00.html

Heres a better site.


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19208580/?GT1=10056

 

[fossis]

Great set of teeth, I have a single tooth, & vertebrea
that came from a Texas river, I heard of a man digging
a pond in OK, that found a flipper.

Fossis.................

 

[bean man]

That is so cool! Would you mind if I asked, what something like that costs?

 

[Gunner]

That is so cool! Would you mind if I asked, what something like that costs?

I traded coins for it....I'd guess around 100-150 on ebay?

Gunner

 

[bean man]

Cool, thanks.

 

[Nashoba]

Too cool for words. I'd love one like that in my collection of stuff!
~Nash~

 

[Gunner]

Too cool for words. I'd love one like that in my collection of stuff!
~Nash~

Thanks Nash...I really enjoy it! To think ..some ancient beast broke it's jaw off just for me .

Gunner

 

[justine093]

gunner,
no offense, but if that is your mosasaur, I believe it is a composite.
Most are coming from Morocco via the Tucson Gem and mineral show.
the teeth are real , but they composite them in sandstone.
Please read the following article for clarification...(I only know this because me dad has several authentic mosasaur jawbones.)
though the article deals mostly with trilobites composites, the same goes for mosasaur (it seems the teeth are rather abundant): from the Fossil News, Journal of Amateur Paleontology, August 1996:

These fossils are being mined by hundreds of Moroccans in the hope of raising money for their families, and, unfortunately, a few have become a trilobite mafia, creating fake trilobites by the thousands, and selling them as the real thing. As the real fossils dwindle in number, the fossil entrepreneurs have decided to boost their incomes by manufacturing fakes. The finer specimens are becoming increasingly difficult to acquire, and as the skill for creating fakes escalates, it becomes more and more difficult to tell real from fake.
There are many more fake Moroccan trilobites on the market than real ones. They are being mass produced on location by merchants who are interested only in profit. Furthermore, unscrupulous fossil retailers are buying them, knowing that they are fake, because they, too, are only interested in profiteering. They seem to have no qualms about selling them to their trusting customers.
The entrepreneurs have literally created trilobite factories in Rissani and Erfoud where fake matrices are made with ground rock from nearby outcrops and a plastic resin. These matrices are cast into saucers that are about one inch thick and anywhere from a few inches to over a foot in diameter. Sometimes real rock slabs are used. Using a real specimen to make a mold, a fossil is cast with rock dust and the plastic resin and is then placed on top of the matrix. Finally, the "fossil" is painted and the matrix is pounded with a hammer and nail over its surface, making dots that cover up any signs of the casting, mending, or fixing. Many specimens have been made up of groups of trilobites on a single rock, creating a spectacular looking assembly, but one that is impossible, since the species occur in entirely different eras or rock formations. It use to be fairly easy to tell the fakes, but no more! Even experts can be fooled.
The forgers have become quite skilled at reproducing these fossils. The fakes are no longer just plaster or plastic casts. As mentioned, the actual rock at the location is being ground up and mixed with a cement that, when cast, looks exactly like the original material, including the exact colors.
At the February 1996 Fossil and Mineral Show in Tucson, wholesalers were selling hundreds of complete specimens to retailers, most of which looked genuine. Could all these be real? They included dozens of foot-long Acadoparadoxides, scores of 5-6 inch Phacops, and as many horned and spiny trilobites, all complete. I approached one of the Moroccan suppliers who was dealing with a Japanese merchant, in English. There were large tables covered with the same species of spiny trilobite, many of which were in unbelievable groups, but all slightly different, and all complete and seemingly perfect. Even though I have been collecting and studying trilobites for more than thirty years, it was difficult to tell real from fake. A paleontologist friend who specialized in trilobites and who accompanied me, also could not tell. Catching the owner's attention, I boldly asked him, "Are these real or made up?" pointing to the specimen table. He hemmed and hawed, hedged and balked. I repeated my question, and he finally said, "I no speaka de Englise" and went back to his important transaction with the dealer who was clearly unconcerned and unshaken by my inquiry.
It was impossible to believe that so many hundreds of specimens could be genuine. Many of them were stretched out on tables with dozens of identical or nearly identical items. The forgers are trying to outfox buyers, as this year there were small differences in each specimen. Crafty retailers must have known that something was awry, but they bought them anyway, by the carloads, to sell to unsuspecting customers. Complete, perfect specimens were selling for impossibly low prices. The preparations, when properly done, are very time consuming, costly, and require expert, delicate work - work that the Moroccans don't or can't do. Instead they knock off the real spines, because they are too difficult to deal with, and reconstruct fake ones to replace them, which is much easier and less time consuming.
The more scrupulous dealers reacted differently. When I expressed an interest in an obvious fake to one, she immediately said that it was a cast and not a real fossil. I saw two different dealers who had the same unusual, but spectacular "trilobite" displayed for sale. It was apparently the same species, a large, awkward form, about seven inches long, with giant spines sticking straight up out of its body, in all directions, like an echinoid. It was centrally placed in glass and lit in a spectacular display cabinet with spotlights. The spines looked like toothpicks that had been stuck in its body to make up a preposterous, homespun trilobite. I had never seen anything like it. Since there was no labeling on this specimen, I asked the dealer for its name, site location, its age, and a price. After about twenty minutes, he came back with an age of Ordovician. The "order" he wrote was "Lididd", family "Lichidal", genus/species "Nileid, var, symphsurus", from the Draa Valley, Agdz, Morocco. There is no order "Lididd", but there is one named Lichida. And, there is no family "Lichidal", but there is a subfamily Lichinae. There is no genus Neleid, but there are Neleid types. However, a family Nileidae, genus symphysurina is listed in the Treatise on Invertebrate Paleontology (Moore, 1959). None resembles the item that was displayed. The price was $3500.
It is interesting that the dealer seemed to know something about paleontological nomenclature. He would have had to in order to come up with such nearly correct names, and the age is correct for the Lichida. So, these people can hardly claim to be naive. The other dealer had a label of "Elvis" on the same "fossil". I didn't ask for details.
One of the dealers at the show was incensed at all the fakes, and displayed several of them next to his real specimens. He lectured everyone who would listen about how the fakes were constructed, having himself been to the Moroccan locations where he saw them being made. The Geology Department at the University of Arizona bought some of the specimens at the show, and to show that they were faked, they were gross sectioned with a saw, revealing several different rock types from different mountains which had been ground up and cemented together.
How do you know if you have a fake? Some of the older ones are obviously too smooth, too perfect, and actually look like reproductions, but many are not so obvious. Short of a cross section, you might be able to determine a fake by taking a torch to a piece of the matrix, since resins are generally flammable or melt. This can be done safely by clipping off a piece of the matrix. Or, you can try sticking a hot needle into the trilobite's skin. You shouldn't be able to do this in genuine rock, but a resin will exude a smell and smoke. Some of the false rock fluoresces, probably from the resin material. Remember that these fakes are made from real rock from the actual fossil locations - so they are the same weight, feel, smell, and texture of the real thing. If your specimen looks too good to be true (no cracks or imperfections of color, etc), it probably is.
My advice, if you are purchasing fossils of any kind, is to always ask if they are real or casts, demand documentation, the species, age and location. If the fossil is expensive, ask who prepared it, when and where, get the dealer to authorize its authenticity in writing, and insist on a written money-back guarantee of satisfaction. There are not many preparers who do a first-rate job with trilobites. Don't buy anything that you value if this information can't be provided. Always research your specimens and take a magnifier with you (it may help), and a professional paleontologist could also be a helpful companion. The abundance of fake fossils has created considerable suspicion and cynicism. Many are now reluctant to buy or trade anything for Moroccan material, and is it any wonder?
From Fossil News, Journal of Amateur Paleontology, August 1996.

 

[gallileo60]

Gunner, all I can say is.........................WOW.....................

 

[Tom_Restorer]

A composit Fake for sure!
The Matrix in this case is real and not a homogene reddish one like on the typical fakes.
The teeth are all manipulated and grindet and set between minimum 3 authentic real "jaw?" Bones and the toth roots are also missing and on the attached picture you can see, that a missing part was completet with a real part of a jaw bone with visible and typical strukture, like they always did and still do.
I real don´t get it why these Moslems cheating people from the beginning on, also with fancy fantasy resin Trilobites and other stuff and destroy their own Market.
There is a huge graveyard at the phosphate mines with 10s of thousand Mosasaurs they pick off and on some of their photos at auctions you can see storage rooms packed full of stuff and skulls include huge piles of boxes with hundrets of thousands of teeth which they never will sell, also not if they wouldn´t have already killed their own business with CHEATING thousands of colletors! Now they sit on this S***T piles of rocks and only beginners will step in their trap and buy their overpriced dirt. There are so many fossile dealers around with exeptional and expensive stuff but most honest ones didn´t have any of this Morrocan stuff exept some genuine and nice teeth. Ask yourself why!!
Also all this so called complete and "natural" Skulls and skeletons are never offert with a documentation of the restoration, so you dont know what you buy and how much is real!
It is a shame because I am looking for a while now to buy a skull in a Matrix to prepare and restore it myself in a propper way and with documentatio, so if it will ever be sold again, the new owner knows exactly what was done and how much was restored.
And just a little warning. NEVER EVER buy one of there "restored" skulls or "complete" Skeletons!
They are all heavily restored, many times less than 50% original and some times fixed with cement which is hard to remove, overpainted to hide this restorations and very very often completed with bones from other individuals or in worst case from different species! Mostly you can spot it because they put in Bones in a different direction or has an other texture and color! But what a mirical, all this restored skulls and skeletons are WAY cheaper as those, destroyed in a original matrix!! How can this be?!

In the next weeks I get a Jaw Bone a friend just bought in original Matrix. I will show the restoration step by step in my thread, as well if I finally get my own skull:

Tom´s Restorations

Hi Folks, I thought to open this thread and show the process step by step because it is in my opinion a rare complete find in nearly perfect condition. The piece has all original ropes, resin or bitumen on it and the fuse is covert with canvas. A question to the specialists here: Was this...

www.treasurenet.com

 

[Tom_Restorer]

gunner,
no offense, but if that is your mosasaur, I believe it is a composite.
Most are coming from Morocco via the Tucson Gem and mineral show.
the teeth are real , but they composite them in sandstone.
Please read the following article for clarification...(I only know this because me dad has several authentic mosasaur jawbones.)
though the article deals mostly with trilobites composites, the same goes for mosasaur (it seems the teeth are rather abundant): from the Fossil News, Journal of Amateur Paleontology, August 1996:

These fossils are being mined by hundreds of Moroccans in the hope of raising money for their families, and, unfortunately, a few have become a trilobite mafia, creating fake trilobites by the thousands, and selling them as the real thing. As the real fossils dwindle in number, the fossil entrepreneurs have decided to boost their incomes by manufacturing fakes. The finer specimens are becoming increasingly difficult to acquire, and as the skill for creating fakes escalates, it becomes more and more difficult to tell real from fake.
There are many more fake Moroccan trilobites on the market than real ones. They are being mass produced on location by merchants who are interested only in profit. Furthermore, unscrupulous fossil retailers are buying them, knowing that they are fake, because they, too, are only interested in profiteering. They seem to have no qualms about selling them to their trusting customers.
The entrepreneurs have literally created trilobite factories in Rissani and Erfoud where fake matrices are made with ground rock from nearby outcrops and a plastic resin. These matrices are cast into saucers that are about one inch thick and anywhere from a few inches to over a foot in diameter. Sometimes real rock slabs are used. Using a real specimen to make a mold, a fossil is cast with rock dust and the plastic resin and is then placed on top of the matrix. Finally, the "fossil" is painted and the matrix is pounded with a hammer and nail over its surface, making dots that cover up any signs of the casting, mending, or fixing. Many specimens have been made up of groups of trilobites on a single rock, creating a spectacular looking assembly, but one that is impossible, since the species occur in entirely different eras or rock formations. It use to be fairly easy to tell the fakes, but no more! Even experts can be fooled.
The forgers have become quite skilled at reproducing these fossils. The fakes are no longer just plaster or plastic casts. As mentioned, the actual rock at the location is being ground up and mixed with a cement that, when cast, looks exactly like the original material, including the exact colors.
At the February 1996 Fossil and Mineral Show in Tucson, wholesalers were selling hundreds of complete specimens to retailers, most of which looked genuine. Could all these be real? They included dozens of foot-long Acadoparadoxides, scores of 5-6 inch Phacops, and as many horned and spiny trilobites, all complete. I approached one of the Moroccan suppliers who was dealing with a Japanese merchant, in English. There were large tables covered with the same species of spiny trilobite, many of which were in unbelievable groups, but all slightly different, and all complete and seemingly perfect. Even though I have been collecting and studying trilobites for more than thirty years, it was difficult to tell real from fake. A paleontologist friend who specialized in trilobites and who accompanied me, also could not tell. Catching the owner's attention, I boldly asked him, "Are these real or made up?" pointing to the specimen table. He hemmed and hawed, hedged and balked. I repeated my question, and he finally said, "I no speaka de Englise" and went back to his important transaction with the dealer who was clearly unconcerned and unshaken by my inquiry.
It was impossible to believe that so many hundreds of specimens could be genuine. Many of them were stretched out on tables with dozens of identical or nearly identical items. The forgers are trying to outfox buyers, as this year there were small differences in each specimen. Crafty retailers must have known that something was awry, but they bought them anyway, by the carloads, to sell to unsuspecting customers. Complete, perfect specimens were selling for impossibly low prices. The preparations, when properly done, are very time consuming, costly, and require expert, delicate work - work that the Moroccans don't or can't do. Instead they knock off the real spines, because they are too difficult to deal with, and reconstruct fake ones to replace them, which is much easier and less time consuming.
The more scrupulous dealers reacted differently. When I expressed an interest in an obvious fake to one, she immediately said that it was a cast and not a real fossil. I saw two different dealers who had the same unusual, but spectacular "trilobite" displayed for sale. It was apparently the same species, a large, awkward form, about seven inches long, with giant spines sticking straight up out of its body, in all directions, like an echinoid. It was centrally placed in glass and lit in a spectacular display cabinet with spotlights. The spines looked like toothpicks that had been stuck in its body to make up a preposterous, homespun trilobite. I had never seen anything like it. Since there was no labeling on this specimen, I asked the dealer for its name, site location, its age, and a price. After about twenty minutes, he came back with an age of Ordovician. The "order" he wrote was "Lididd", family "Lichidal", genus/species "Nileid, var, symphsurus", from the Draa Valley, Agdz, Morocco. There is no order "Lididd", but there is one named Lichida. And, there is no family "Lichidal", but there is a subfamily Lichinae. There is no genus Neleid, but there are Neleid types. However, a family Nileidae, genus symphysurina is listed in the Treatise on Invertebrate Paleontology (Moore, 1959). None resembles the item that was displayed. The price was $3500.
It is interesting that the dealer seemed to know something about paleontological nomenclature. He would have had to in order to come up with such nearly correct names, and the age is correct for the Lichida. So, these people can hardly claim to be naive. The other dealer had a label of "Elvis" on the same "fossil". I didn't ask for details.
One of the dealers at the show was incensed at all the fakes, and displayed several of them next to his real specimens. He lectured everyone who would listen about how the fakes were constructed, having himself been to the Moroccan locations where he saw them being made. The Geology Department at the University of Arizona bought some of the specimens at the show, and to show that they were faked, they were gross sectioned with a saw, revealing several different rock types from different mountains which had been ground up and cemented together.
How do you know if you have a fake? Some of the older ones are obviously too smooth, too perfect, and actually look like reproductions, but many are not so obvious. Short of a cross section, you might be able to determine a fake by taking a torch to a piece of the matrix, since resins are generally flammable or melt. This can be done safely by clipping off a piece of the matrix. Or, you can try sticking a hot needle into the trilobite's skin. You shouldn't be able to do this in genuine rock, but a resin will exude a smell and smoke. Some of the false rock fluoresces, probably from the resin material. Remember that these fakes are made from real rock from the actual fossil locations - so they are the same weight, feel, smell, and texture of the real thing. If your specimen looks too good to be true (no cracks or imperfections of color, etc), it probably is.
My advice, if you are purchasing fossils of any kind, is to always ask if they are real or casts, demand documentation, the species, age and location. If the fossil is expensive, ask who prepared it, when and where, get the dealer to authorize its authenticity in writing, and insist on a written money-back guarantee of satisfaction. There are not many preparers who do a first-rate job with trilobites. Don't buy anything that you value if this information can't be provided. Always research your specimens and take a magnifier with you (it may help), and a professional paleontologist could also be a helpful companion. The abundance of fake fossils has created considerable suspicion and cynicism. Many are now reluctant to buy or trade anything for Moroccan material, and is it any wonder?
From Fossil News, Journal of Amateur Paleontology, August 1996.

To spot those fakes is an easy way. They are all made out of resin, mixed with pigments and stone powder.
All you need is 3-5% paraloyd to conver a real piece again and you put your fancy trilobite in Acetone and let it soak in for some hours. If it is made out of resin, Congatulations! Aceton dissolves resin very slowly and you can see the damage clearly on the surface and also all this long spikes can be bent than in all directions. The resin surface gets soft for sure.
And don´t be afraid, Acetone can´t harm any anient pieces! Some times the surface can get a little blind or foggy but this can be fixed again with Wax, Paraloid, stone oil etc - depends on the material.