New scammer/flipper

[Goldwasher]

Beware of Mountain Man Mining Corp.

Came across a claim for sale in an area there aren't claims.

Looked into it. The guy is trying to sell a claim. It appears he is waiting to get someone on the hook.

But, don't worry after you pay him. he will "take care of the paperwork"

Then send you recordings and the blm copies.

So, he is selling land that isn't claimed. Will go file and pretend he is transferring it.

Keep him on the radar from the looks of his website he is just getting started.

The one I saw for sale had the typical Historical Jargon...past production. A listing of the MAS #

He does not give a Nv. claim number HUGE red flag so I looked deeper using given coordinates.

Open ground. Not filed at BLM. no claims in the area at all.

He has it listed on ebay as well.

The one he lists on his website thats different also has no info. a search by claim name via BLM generates no such claim.

 

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[Goldwasher]

I think you mean, "It is called CHARACTER."

Not to split hairs, but integrity is based upon a persons actions, so it means doing what they say they will do. In this case that has not been determined because we do not know if he followed through after the exchange of money or not.

I agree with you though, and to me the whole deal sounds fishy, so his CHARACTER comes into question on this. I would think a simple background check would determine what his previous history has been.

I mean the integrity of the situation as a whole.

This guys character ..messes with that integrity.

 

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[Goldwasher]

You said it....buyer beware or Caveat Emptor which is the cornerstone of US contract law. Simply put, the seller most often has more information about the value of the sale item that then buyer unless there is a warranty. Hence, do your homework.

Raising a red flag is one thing but labeling someone as unscrupulous or a scammer with no evidence is a scam is just high school gossip. You can keep that ****.

I see claims being sold all the time that would never produce enough gold to cover the cost of purchase, Is this a scam?

Yes, because the person selling it knows that

"legtal" sure ....

Would it happen less if people called guys like this out...YEP.


So , the update is this. The claim is now on record with BLM.. it was offered for sale on craigslist. NINE days before the lacation date on the paperwork.

Absolutely unlawful as far as mining law is concerned. It also shows the claim was not located with the intent to develop the mineral resource.

If you don't know what that means oh, well.

Selling it for almost 7k on the intrawebs before it islegally located...based on pictures taken is horse crap no matter what shovel your using.

I have located claims for people. Help them get their paper work in order. The most I have ever charged is $50 bucks.

Bending over backwards to stand up for someone who is obviously taking advantage of having more info than the potential buyer is just plain weird.

I made this thread because newbies lurk here... many newbies think the "easy" way is to buy a claim.

Most experienced prospectors know that is not the case.

If someone reads this and realizes the potential to be scammed from me shariing my experience. I have done well.

Lashing out at me makes no sense. As I am causing no harm to anyone.

It does illustrate that i care more about the integrity of the mining law than others.

I will never feel bad for shining a light on those that try to use the Mining Laws to make a quick buck off of others.

I have zero problems with locating claims for others. Selling proven claims at a reasonable price.

That is not what Mountain Man Mining is doing.

Just like GRE he trying to profit on hype.

It's BS, standing up for such a thing is lame. Makes zero sense. It enables people being taken advantage of.

My info gives any potential buyer more info. To help make a better assesment.

I am helping the "Buyer Beware"

 

[Goldwasher]

You said it....buyer beware or Caveat Emptor which is the cornerstone of US contract law. Simply put, the seller most often has more information about the value of the sale item that then buyer unless there is a warranty. Hence, do your homework.

Raising a red flag is one thing but labeling someone as unscrupulous or a scammer with no evidence is a scam is just high school gossip. You can keep that ****.

I see claims being sold all the time that would never produce enough gold to cover the cost of purchase, Is this a scam?

Ample evidence

 

[Bejay]

Next there will be ocean front property for sale in Az. I bet there would be people interested in buying it. There are always fools and people willing to benefit from others who are foolish. Lately I just sit back and watch foolhardiness. You can't teach a pig to sing and if you were to try you would have to get into the pig wallow and get down and dirty. It frustrates the pig and yourself....so sit back watch others commit to the fun. Just saying!

Bejay

 

[mytimetoshine]

I like the 3 person type list:
Those who make things happen
those who watch things happen
Those who wonder what happened

 

[OreCart]

Next there will be ocean front property for sale in Az. I bet there would be people interested in buying it. There are always fools and people willing to benefit from others who are foolish. Lately I just sit back and watch foolhardiness. You can't teach a pig to sing and if you were to try you would have to get into the pig wallow and get down and dirty. It frustrates the pig and yourself....so sit back watch others commit to the fun. Just saying!

Bejay

I am not so sure on this, but I say that as a true question; neither agreeing or arguing against you here.

Certainly there is some wisdom in what you say. I had a friend who would watch the news, and then had about three heart attacks from the results. "Just stop watching it", I told him, and if he could, he would be so much better off.

But on the flip side of that, there is something to be said about self-policing claims. I say that because if too many people stomp into prosecutor's offices and have been scammed out of money, and the prosecutor cannot do anything to help the decent fellow out, the next logical step is to just stop the mineral rights claims process in the first place.

Problem solved.

You guys know more about filing claims then I ever would, but it seems like the claim process is starting to come under attack. I think a few months ago there was a post on here regarding how a person with a claim is losing their rights. Generally that is not how rights are lost, they are not so much taken, as people do not fight to keep what they have. Inaction in other words.

 

[Bejay]

OreCart: "But on the flip side of that, there is something to be said about self-policing claims. I say that because if too many people stomp into prosecutor's offices and have been scammed out of money, and the prosecutor cannot do anything to help the decent fellow out, the next logical step is to just stop the mineral rights claims process in the first place."

Take what you just said and ask the question: "If the decent guy bought ocean front property in Az" would he really have any right to complain to anybody? Would a prosecutor even listen; let alone attempt to resolve the issue. If you think a logical step would be to stop selling property in AZ then I am left speechless. So if someone wants to sell you anything it is up to the person making the purchase to ascertain what they are buying......I believe in real estate the term is "buyer beware".

On these mining forums there are always "decent folks" being taken by those who scam selling mining claims...….and the answer is always "beware there are scammers out there". I don't know what else to say, other than I just sit back and watch it happen over and over again. Relying on others to do your due diligence can lead to a lot of scamming.

It is what it is...…..Bejay

 

[Bonaro]

Ample evidence

What evidence?
According to your own post he delivered what he advertised

 

[Goldwasher]

What evidence?
According to your own post he delivered what he advertised

He was selling a claim he didn't have.

That is wrong. His timeline would lose in court a if something came up and it was challenged.

Say someone else located properly. Put up a monument this guy didn't see. Didn't check at county etc.

No back dating or paper claiming. And there ends up being a legit Senior.

Meantime Mountain Man gets himself a customer. Who isn't going to check out any of this because . You know like uhhh..

He totally hired a "claim location service" AKA "hogwash" , "not really a thing" "Professor liability- Esquire "

Whatever marketing spin you want to put on it...

The customer will be out. usually no recourse. when the flipper transfers a "valid claim"

However this Fine fellow . Was selling a claim he did not have legal title to. It's public record as far as the location dates. The Claim went up for sale nine days before. The date on the location notice. That date is the most important aspect of that form. It holds power before you even record.

That is lame and illegal. It doesn't mater if it was an accident because he didn't know. It really really should matter if he did.

I didn't make this post for the sort of person that would be able to avoid this. This is for those who will benifit from from seeing the exact situation you should really try to avoid.

The guy most likely drove to several areas took pics then decided what one would be best to sell. That doesn't make it a valid claim other then on the thin initial discovery... if he actually made one.

What he did and the way I described it may show he promised what he advertized.

The same thing could be said about a tweeker who sells stolen chansaws on craigslist.

Neither one of them are in the right.

 

[Underburden]

Call this guy for all your mining legalities.

 

[Bonaro]

He was selling a claim he didn't have.

That is wrong. His timeline would lose in court a if something came up and it was challenged.

Say someone else located properly. Put up a monument this guy didn't see. Didn't check at county etc.

No back dating or paper claiming. And there ends up being a legit Senior.

Meantime Mountain Man gets himself a customer. Who isn't going to check out any of this because . You know like uhhh..

He totally hired a "claim location service" AKA "hogwash" , "not really a thing" "Professor liability- Esquire "

Whatever marketing spin you want to put on it...

The customer will be out. usually no recourse. when the flipper transfers a "valid claim"

However this Fine fellow . Was selling a claim he did not have legal title to. It's public record as far as the location dates. The Claim went up for sale nine days before. The date on the location notice. That date is the most important aspect of that form. It holds power before you even record.

That is lame and illegal. It doesn't mater if it was an accident because he didn't know. It really really should matter if he did.

I didn't make this post for the sort of person that would be able to avoid this. This is for those who will benifit from from seeing the exact situation you should really try to avoid.

The guy most likely drove to several areas took pics then decided what one would be best to sell. That doesn't make it a valid claim other then on the thin initial discovery... if he actually made one.

What he did and the way I described it may show he promised what he advertized.

The same thing could be said about a tweeker who sells stolen chansaws on craigslist.

Neither one of them are in the right.

Most of what you said is only your opinion and just plain BS....sorry

He advertised a claim that could be had for a price, someone stepped up with $ and walked away with a validly recorded claim in their name. Just because you dont like it for some unexplainable reason doesn't make it illegal. Your comparison to a tweaker selling a stolen chainsaw is laughable and not remotely comparable and potentially libelous.

The only way this transaction would end up in court is if someone happened to file on it before he filed for the buyer, again you offer no proof this imagined possibility happened.

There was no evidence of back dating, paper filing, senior claimant or witchcraft and he never claimed to have legal title to this land. You only state your completely unfounded accusations based on "what if" scenarios. He didn't flip a claim because it wasn't a claim yet.

I think you are pissed because he sold a potentially great claim and you missed it.

Please provide the ordinance or CFR that he violated in this "crime"...waiting

 

[Bejay]

In order to sell a mining claim you must "Possess It" Here is some valid points:

The finding of gold within your location is enough for you to make a mining claim location that will defend the claim against subsequent prospectors and locators. This is known as having a "possessory interest" in minerals within your location. At that point your claim is adequate for you to exclude others from exploring or mining your claim for minerals.


Your finds are sufficient to make a valid mining claim to further explore for a valuable mineral deposit. Your finds do not constitute a valid discovery but they are sufficient to reserve your location for your own prospecting and exploration purposes until you do make a valid discovery.....(prudent man rule)

Here are a few important Supreme Court cases to show you the distinction.

Cameron v. United States
A mining claim on public lands is a possessory interest in land that is "mineral in character" and as respects which discovery "within the limits of the claim" has been made. The discovery must be of such a character that "a person of ordinary prudence would be justified in the further expenditure of his labor and means, with a reasonable prospect of success, in developing a valuable mine." United States v. Coleman
Minerals which no prudent man will extract because there is no demand for them at a price higher than the cost of extraction and transportation are hardly economically valuable. Thus, profitability is an important consideration in applying the prudent man test, and the marketability test which the Secretary has used here merely recognizes this fact. The word "discovery" is often bantered around on these forums as if the mere finding of gold suffices to prove a discovery of valuable minerals. It's often been misunderstood that the right to locate a mining claim is dependent on making a valid discovery first. That's simply not true. The discovery validates the claim as required by law but lack of a valid discovery does not prevent one from locating a claim. Here's how the courts have dealt with that all too common misunderstanding:

C. A. Davis et al., Appellants, v. Neal Nelson, State Director, Bureau of Land Management
A common practice in the western states among prospectors who intend more than a casual exploration of an area thought to contain mineral is first to locate, mark and record the boundaries of the claim, and then to expend time, labor, money and energy on the prospect. Such occupation and working of the claim, even before discovery, gives the locator a limited defendable right of possession and a right which is, in some respects, alienable. The right of pedis possessio is one which may be transferred by transfer of possession because it rests on actual possession, accompanied by deed, lease or assignment of the color of title represented by the local location and recording of the claim.

In advance of discovery an explorer in actual occupation and diligently searching for mineral is treated as a licensee or tenant at will, and no right can be initiated or acquired through a forcible, fraudulent or clandestine intrusion upon his possession. But if his occupancy be relaxed, or be merely incidental to something other than a diligent search for mineral, and another enters peaceably, and not fraudulently or clandestinely, and makes a mineral discovery and location, the location so made is valid and must be respected accordingly.'

Whatever may be the rights acquired by a prospector, who locates a mining claim prematurely and before actual discovery of valuable mineral, in the defense of his actual possession against third persons, it is clear under both the mining law and the regulations that a discovery of valuable mineral is the sine qua non of an entry to initiate vested rights against the United States. The premature location of such a claim and the recordation of certificates or notices of location cast a cloud upon the title of the United States to the lands, as the law contemplates that discovery must coincide with the physical location of the claims.

This is not to say that citizens, and those who have declared their intention to become such, do not also have and enjoy a statutory right to prospect and explore the public domain. Nor do we imply that it is an actionable wrong for a good faith prospector to locate a claim in furtherance and in protection of the right of pedis possessio while pursuing his more thorough exploration. But the validity of his title, claimed and asserted by the location of the claim and the recordation of notices, depends upon the resolution of a question of fact, that is, has there been a discovery of valuable mineral within the limits of the claim? There is a lot to read here but the intent is to guide one to the actual facts about discovery and mining claim validity. Read the court decisions. Mining claims are a part of the prospect - locate - explore - discover - mine/patent process. They are not the end result but just a way of securing the minerals against other prospectors so you can complete the required steps to establish a valid valuable mineral discovery.....(prudent man rule).

______________________________________________________________________________________________________

Much of what we see today is "no discovery" but merely "paper locating" and then a sale.

Bejay

 

[Goldwasher]

Most of what you said is only your opinion and just plain BS....sorry

He advertised a claim that could be had for a price, someone stepped up with $ and walked away with a validly recorded claim in their name. Just because you dont like it for some unexplainable reason doesn't make it illegal. Your comparison to a tweaker selling a stolen chainsaw is laughable and not remotely comparable and potentially libelous.

The only way this transaction would end up in court is if someone happened to file on it before he filed for the buyer, again you offer no proof this imagined possibility happened.

There was no evidence of back dating, paper filing, senior claimant or witchcraft and he never claimed to have legal title to this land. You only state your completely unfounded accusations based on "what if" scenarios. He didn't flip a claim because it wasn't a claim yet.

I think you are pissed because he sold a potentially great claim and you missed it.

Please provide the ordinance or CFR that he violated in this "crime"...waiting

funny how you don't follow your own advice.

lashing out at me . Calling me a liar..

insinuating that I must have some ulterior motive for my post.

All of that is you letting your " emotions" get the best of you.

It's like you have more of a personal issue with me than an actual interest in adding to the discussion.

Super proud of ya!!


I know the area there are some cool mineral specimins in the area due to the silver in the area. There are gold mines. they used leaching as there wasn't much free milling gold.

There are hundreds of identical holes in the very near area just like it and just as worthless to anyone but a mid to large op... There are no other claims... no one wrrking in any way.

A township over it is a different story.

I had no interest in this claim. If I wanted one in the area it would be very easy to get.

I have permission to explore and detect more than 800 acres in Nevada right now. I am looking for something to claim. But, it won't be until after a lot of research and boots on the ground. I already have 42 acres of productive Placer and Lode ten minutes from my house as it is. Plus the hundreds of acres of private land I have permission on.

As I have stated based on the SRP of the claim. It was up for sale more than a week before it was legally filed and recorded.

Selling something you don't own is in fact illegal. How you can disagree I have no idea.

He absolutely claimed legal title. He said he would transfer at blm and county upon purchase. He stated that before he himself even had the paperwork filed and recorded.

I never said he did paper claim. Though there is enough to see that it could be likely.

The owner has never had another claim in his name. So, he sure isn't very experienced. Another red flag.

Especially when you can see he is selling a 40 acre lode claim that he also doesn't have properly filed at BLM if at all.

My comments about someone filing during that limbo period from when he put the claim on craigslist and ebay. When he recorded nine days later actually using the day before as his discovery date. When he had obviosly been there several weeks prior to take pictures and sample. Another red flag.

the very sort of thing to avoid.

When buying the claim the person buying should have enough info to ask. "hey, I looked and noticed your paperwork wasn't filed until almost two weeks after I saw your add?"

or how about. " why are you selling this for 7k when you just filed for $300 bucks a week and a half ago.. yet you had it on ebay for more than a week before that.."

And I'm somehow the badguy


He did not have legal possesion of the claim when he was advertizing it for sale. he did eventually file so it is "legal" now

I did not hide that fact.

My point was that these sorts of "companies" need to be watched for obvious reasons.

Atacking me for coming across the situation and creating a discussion for inexperienced prospectors to read and decide for themselves is a negative on your part.

I did not libel him. Everything I said about legality was in relation to him selling without legal title to do so. He was in fact doing that.

I am not against selling claims. One of our members here has them out in Rye Patch. actual good ground ...decent reasonable prices. I've even thought about hitting him up for one.

The guy who located this one no way in hell.

I am not wrong. So, stop attacking me and trying to insult me on a personal level. It's petty and pointless. Plus your going back on your own words.

 

[Rail Dawg]

My brother and I spend a lot of time in Rye Patch doing discovery and then filing claims. Yes we do sell some of them but we keep a lot of them as we are active miners out there.

Our intent isn't claim-flipping as that goes against the spirit of the Mining Law of 1872. And before we sell we ensure everything is solid with the BLM and Pershing County in regards to the correct filing.

It's not just gold that attracts prospectors to Rye Patch. The place is heavily mineralized and we find marketable minerals all the time. The quartz crystals out there are some of the best we've ever seen... and they can get quite large.

While not illegal it seems selling a claim even before filing violates the intent and spirit of the mining law.

Congress has declared that a mining claim is real estate. If owned there's nothing wrong with selling one. We bought our first claim in Rye Patch and quite frankly it was a smart decision as it was the gateway to learning how to maintain that claim. And then we learned how to do it ourselves.

It's a complicated process and unlike others here I don't frown on a new prospector purchasing their first claim. Just use good due diligence and make sure the seller isn't a scammer. MyLandMatters.org is without question THE place to go to learn how to obtain your own claim through discovery. So is this forum. But barring that purchasing a claim to learn the ropes isn't a bad way to learn either.

Even now my brother and I are searching for minerals in areas of Rye Patch not as popular and we are finding gold and other valuable minerals. Enough to make a claim.

To each his own. Just keep in mind what the Mining Law of 1872 was intended to accomplish.

Chuck

 

[Bonaro]

My brother and I spend a lot of time in Rye Patch doing discovery and then filing claims. Yes we do sell some of them but we keep a lot of them as we are active miners out there.

Our intent isn't claim-flipping as that goes against the spirit of the Mining Law of 1872. And before we sell we ensure everything is solid with the BLM and Pershing County in regards to the correct filing.

It's not just gold that attracts prospectors to Rye Patch. The place is heavily mineralized and we find marketable minerals all the time. The quartz crystals out there are some of the best we've ever seen... and they can get quite large.

While not illegal it seems selling a claim even before filing violates the intent and spirit of the mining law.

Congress has declared that a mining claim is real estate. If owned there's nothing wrong with selling one. We bought our first claim in Rye Patch and quite frankly it was a smart decision as it was the gateway to learning how to maintain that claim. And then we learned how to do it ourselves.

It's a complicated process and unlike others here I don't frown on a new prospector purchasing their first claim. Just use good due diligence and make sure the seller isn't a scammer. MyLandMatters.org is without question THE place to go to learn how to obtain your own claim through discovery. So is this forum. But barring that purchasing a claim to learn the ropes isn't a bad way to learn either.

Even now my brother and I are searching for minerals in areas of Rye Patch not as popular and we are finding gold and other valuable minerals. Enough to make a claim.

To each his own. Just keep in mind what the Mining Law of 1872 was intended to accomplish.

Chuck

So what is the difference between what you are doing (which is apparently ok) and what this Mountain Man guy is doing?
In what way does selling a claim before filing violate the mining law? Filing a claim with the intent of sell clearly is but that is not what this guy did

 

[Bonaro]

In order to sell a mining claim you must "Possess It" Here is some valid points:

The finding of gold within your location is enough for you to make a mining claim location that will defend the claim against subsequent prospectors and locators. This is known as having a "possessory interest" in minerals within your location. At that point your claim is adequate for you to exclude others from exploring or mining your claim for minerals.


Your finds are sufficient to make a valid mining claim to further explore for a valuable mineral deposit. Your finds do not constitute a valid discovery but they are sufficient to reserve your location for your own prospecting and exploration purposes until you do make a valid discovery.....(prudent man rule)

Here are a few important Supreme Court cases to show you the distinction.

Cameron v. United States
A mining claim on public lands is a possessory interest in land that is "mineral in character" and as respects which discovery "within the limits of the claim" has been made. The discovery must be of such a character that "a person of ordinary prudence would be justified in the further expenditure of his labor and means, with a reasonable prospect of success, in developing a valuable mine." United States v. Coleman
Minerals which no prudent man will extract because there is no demand for them at a price higher than the cost of extraction and transportation are hardly economically valuable. Thus, profitability is an important consideration in applying the prudent man test, and the marketability test which the Secretary has used here merely recognizes this fact. The word "discovery" is often bantered around on these forums as if the mere finding of gold suffices to prove a discovery of valuable minerals. It's often been misunderstood that the right to locate a mining claim is dependent on making a valid discovery first. That's simply not true. The discovery validates the claim as required by law but lack of a valid discovery does not prevent one from locating a claim. Here's how the courts have dealt with that all too common misunderstanding:

C. A. Davis et al., Appellants, v. Neal Nelson, State Director, Bureau of Land Management
A common practice in the western states among prospectors who intend more than a casual exploration of an area thought to contain mineral is first to locate, mark and record the boundaries of the claim, and then to expend time, labor, money and energy on the prospect. Such occupation and working of the claim, even before discovery, gives the locator a limited defendable right of possession and a right which is, in some respects, alienable. The right of pedis possessio is one which may be transferred by transfer of possession because it rests on actual possession, accompanied by deed, lease or assignment of the color of title represented by the local location and recording of the claim.

In advance of discovery an explorer in actual occupation and diligently searching for mineral is treated as a licensee or tenant at will, and no right can be initiated or acquired through a forcible, fraudulent or clandestine intrusion upon his possession. But if his occupancy be relaxed, or be merely incidental to something other than a diligent search for mineral, and another enters peaceably, and not fraudulently or clandestinely, and makes a mineral discovery and location, the location so made is valid and must be respected accordingly.'

Whatever may be the rights acquired by a prospector, who locates a mining claim prematurely and before actual discovery of valuable mineral, in the defense of his actual possession against third persons, it is clear under both the mining law and the regulations that a discovery of valuable mineral is the sine qua non of an entry to initiate vested rights against the United States. The premature location of such a claim and the recordation of certificates or notices of location cast a cloud upon the title of the United States to the lands, as the law contemplates that discovery must coincide with the physical location of the claims.

This is not to say that citizens, and those who have declared their intention to become such, do not also have and enjoy a statutory right to prospect and explore the public domain. Nor do we imply that it is an actionable wrong for a good faith prospector to locate a claim in furtherance and in protection of the right of pedis possessio while pursuing his more thorough exploration. But the validity of his title, claimed and asserted by the location of the claim and the recordation of notices, depends upon the resolution of a question of fact, that is, has there been a discovery of valuable mineral within the limits of the claim? There is a lot to read here but the intent is to guide one to the actual facts about discovery and mining claim validity. Read the court decisions. Mining claims are a part of the prospect - locate - explore - discover - mine/patent process. They are not the end result but just a way of securing the minerals against other prospectors so you can complete the required steps to establish a valid valuable mineral discovery.....(prudent man rule).

______________________________________________________________________________________________________

Much of what we see today is "no discovery" but merely "paper locating" and then a sale.

Bejay

Brian, I agree with everything you pasted but all of it pertains to a "claim". The important difference here is that this was not a claim.
He located potentially valuable dirt, tested it, documented it and it's history and offered to help someone secure a claim on it for a fee, not that different than a real estate agent. I am not saying that his method was not without risk but nontheless, not illegal.

 

[Bejay]

You can offer a service and charge a fee. The issue becomes how you represent the service you are offering. The issue becomes: when are you "misrepresenting". If the person offering the service "misrepresents" the item of sale is that a "scam". Clay presented evidence of "misrepresentation". It would appear Goldwasher finds it to be a matter of scamming when the seller "misrepresents". My earlier point mentions that "many claims" are sold via the inet and are merely "paper filings"......with the intent to sell. One must focus on the intent of the mining laws: and "words matter". So if I offered Az ocean front property for sale....am I scamming someone? There is a fine line between "misrepresentation" and "scamming". I think Goldwasher was merely trying to give others a "heads up". It is easy to fall prey to those seeking $$$$ for something.

So bottom line for "Newbies" wanting to have a claim: Be extremely careful when buying from those on the inet…..you may be buying a pig in a poke. Unscrupulous people are always selling things. I think we can all agree that there are such people out there. Goldwasher and Clay offered evidence that this occurred. Is it illegal to misrepresent?

Bejay

 

[Goldwasher]

My brother and I spend a lot of time in Rye Patch doing discovery and then filing claims. Yes we do sell some of them but we keep a lot of them as we are active miners out there.

Our intent isn't claim-flipping as that goes against the spirit of the Mining Law of 1872. And before we sell we ensure everything is solid with the BLM and Pershing County in regards to the correct filing.

It's not just gold that attracts prospectors to Rye Patch. The place is heavily mineralized and we find marketable minerals all the time. The quartz crystals out there are some of the best we've ever seen... and they can get quite large.

While not illegal it seems selling a claim even before filing violates the intent and spirit of the mining law.

Congress has declared that a mining claim is real estate. If owned there's nothing wrong with selling one. We bought our first claim in Rye Patch and quite frankly it was a smart decision as it was the gateway to learning how to maintain that claim. And then we learned how to do it ourselves.

It's a complicated process and unlike others here I don't frown on a new prospector purchasing their first claim. Just use good due diligence and make sure the seller isn't a scammer. MyLandMatters.org is without question THE place to go to learn how to obtain your own claim through discovery. So is this forum. But barring that purchasing a claim to learn the ropes isn't a bad way to learn either.

Even now my brother and I are searching for minerals in areas of Rye Patch not as popular and we are finding gold and other valuable minerals. Enough to make a claim.

To each his own. Just keep in mind what the Mining Law of 1872 was intended to accomplish.

Chuck

You are the very fella a spoke of there is nothing wrong with what you and your brother do.

I know your intent is to get the best ground you can. Aren't gonna want to hold it all and still have extra stuff that is actually worth the price and firther exploration and development

On craigslist your claims stand out. As you don't represent your self as a "location service" and with futher research you can see your holdings are much larger than your "letting goes"

Your Asking prices are also reasonable.

I don't frown upon buying your first claim as a way to get good ground. I try to help people learn the process whenever they can. So, they can do it for themselves. Or have the knowledge to look into a claim they may want to buy.

I have charged people and they were very thankful and happy with what they took away. I do it for free now.

What I do frown upon is people taking advantage of newbies.People that do hype up ground that they have done no actual exploration on and are selling for a lot of money. Because they care way more about making profit than they do dealing with mineral deposits and prospectors.

In fact it is way more of a glaring scowl than a frown. It is also something I won't apologize for. As I am not doing anything wrong.

The claim I mention is in a name now and since it is not for sale anymore. It appears that the name is of the purchaser not the locator. If it updates soon and shows a transfer of intrest that will tell the tale.

If not either the seller kept it or.

Someone found ground. Put it up for sale misrepresenting it as a "mining claim for sale"

Sold it went to Blm and the county filed it in the purchasers name. And walked away having charged a "fee" slightly under $7000 bucks.

That is quite the "fee" for taking some pictures and spending an hour on paperwork and less than $300 in first year fee's. A little bit of time filing and recording.

Like I said it was for sale before it was located. Coincidently dropping from craigslist and Ebay the day before the location date as filed at the BLM.

I spent a summer working in a fish processing and canning plant in AK

This smells just as fishy as the bunkhouse we slept in....it's really hard to wash off! And you don't get used to it.

 

[Goldwasher]

I think you mean, "It is called CHARACTER."

Not to split hairs, but integrity is based upon a persons actions, so it means doing what they say they will do. In this case that has not been determined because we do not know if he followed through after the exchange of money or not.

I agree with you though, and to me the whole deal sounds fishy, so his CHARACTER comes into question on this. I would think a simple background check would determine what his previous history has been.

I had a firearms instructor years ago. His definition is the one I go with.

Integrity, is doing the right thing when no one is looking.

 

[Rail Dawg]

You are the very fella a spoke of there is nothing wrong with what you and your brother do.

I know your intent is to get the best ground you can. Aren't gonna want to hold it all and still have extra stuff that is actually worth the price and firther exploration and development

On craigslist your claims stand out. As you don't represent your self as a "location service" and with futher research you can see your holdings are much larger than your "letting goes"

Your Asking prices are also reasonable.

I don't frown upon buying your first claim as a way to get good ground. I try to help people learn the process whenever they can. So, they can do it for themselves. Or have the knowledge to look into a claim they may want to buy.

I have charged people and they were very thankful and happy with what they took away. I do it for free now.

What I do frown upon is people taking advantage of newbies.People that do hype up ground that they have done no actual exploration on and are selling for a lot of money. Because they care way more about making profit than they do dealing with mineral deposits and prospectors.

In fact it is way more of a glaring scowl than a frown. It is also something I won't apologize for. As I am not doing anything wrong.

The claim I mention is in a name now and since it is not for sale anymore. It appears that the name is of the purchaser not the locator. If it updates soon and shows a transfer of intrest that will tell the tale.

If not either the seller kept it or.

Someone found ground. Put it up for sale misrepresenting it as a "mining claim for sale"

Sold it went to Blm and the county filed it in the purchasers name. And walked away having charged a "fee" slightly under $7000 bucks.

That is quite the "fee" for taking some pictures and spending an hour on paperwork and less than $300 in first year fee's. A little bit of time filing and recording.

Like I said it was for sale before it was located. Coincidently dropping from craigslist and Ebay the day before the location date as filed at the BLM.

I spent a summer working in a fish processing and canning plant in AK

This smells just as fishy as the bunkhouse we slept in....it's really hard to wash off! And you don't get used to it.

Thanks Goldwasher.

Good words as always from you.

Chuck