🔎 UNIDENTIFIED Mysterious eastern bronze bowl please help with translation,

[Joecoins]

Hello and thank you for your help.

Purchased this recently on eBay.
From an American seller, who sells mostly high quality asian stuff .
He called it a 1900 Persian bowl
No further info, he had it listed without all the figural images shown. And even upside down photos to lead. It was most affordable compared to his other stuff.
With currency exchange and shipping and even duties this did cost me a little..

It had some mystery and looked cool compared to others...
My main questions are what kind of script?
Can it be translated?
what culture ,what styles ? What era/ age. Whats depicted? And any further info.
There is 12 images on the bowl

 

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[Joecoins]

12 images on bowl , edited, fixed with original 12 intended photos that have better light and focus on script

 

[Joecoins]

Better photos ,shows dogs on bottom..

 

[Red-Coat]

I have a few thoughts and observations.

I think the seller has given as much information as could be reliably said, without the inscriptions being translated. They’re very stylised and might be difficult to read, even for someone familiar with Arabic scripts. Often such inscriptions are quotes from the Qur'an (originally written in Thuluth, then later in Naskh or Muhaqqaq, and almost exclusively in Naskh after the 15th Century); or glorifications of the Islamic empire and its sultans (in a variety of Arabic scripts, including Farsi); and, less commonly, specific attributions to the owner of the vessel.

I sincerely doubt that this is as old as Safavid dynasty (1501-1736), even if it has elements of Safavid style, and the 19th Century attribution (for Qajar dynasty from 1781-1925) looks right.

Islamic art in many areas of the empire was ‘aniconistic’ for much of its history. That is, although inanimate objects were depicted in detail, humans and other living animals were not (except for mythical beasts). If depicted at all, faces were without any detail, including representations of the Prophet without his face being shown. Persian art under Islam had never completely forbidden the human figure, but it’s use was limited and usually confined to books that could be selectively shown to others in private, or ‘in miniature’ on things like small drinking vessels and often shown as ‘crowd groups’ of unidentifiable people. But not realistic depictions of individual people on items intended for everyday use/display.

It wasn’t until the later part of the Qajar dynasty that people began to be depicted with realism, especially depictions of its royalty, but with standardised features and then, after the impact of photography in the later 19th Century, with more individualised facial features. Looking at the figures on your bowl, that’s what I think puts it in the 19th Century and bowls like this are relatively common items. I don’t think there’s anything ‘mysterious’ about it.

 

[sprailroad]

I gotta say...It seems like one of the bigger treasures on T-Net is "Red-Coat" himself. The guy is a store house of information. Just like "Cannon Ball Guy".

 

[Joecoins]

Thank you very much I learned alot. Specifically the Persian art under islam stuff. I seen many gilded antique bowls of quality where the figures lack faces entirely now I know why. Also the qajar stuff I been looking at and seen some similarities.
I really like the quality of the bowl I got more then all I see. The eyes and the shading quality. I couldn't really tell though if this is engraved or etched. Looks engraved?
To me the mystery is in the inscription foremost. It can say something novel ,historic. That can help pin down the culture/ age
also the story in the art is quite mysterious.

it doesn't look Persian to me, it looks like a culture of the steppe people , like the Mongols, The turk. I think I see relation to tengrinism. But also buddism and maybe Hinduism...

thanks for the info about those different scripts. I am at a loss how kufic fits in with those various scripts? Can they all appear in a kufic style or ?
I see similarities to something I saw called kufic. I don't know much about ...

It has been suggested it could be for incense and I think that's cool. I will prolly fill it with sand and use it for such.
but I was also researching divination bowls and medicine bowls. And zodiac symbols on bowls. Atleast one matches mine pretty closely. I started looking at brass but now I'm even looking at ceramic bowls. From a wide range

 

[Joecoins]

this may help

 

[Joecoins]

maybe there is some Zoroastrian symbolism as well,
I have looked at avestan script aswell and found it interesting.
I will mention here I think some of the figures may be female,
I am researching famous mongol/turkic warriors and khans...

 

[ARC]

JoeCoins... at first glance i immediately thought Islamic... Egypt... then went to Moroccan and so forth.
Islamic for sure IMO.
I don't sit well yet with anything thus far.
Will look into it further per your request.

 

[ARC]

PS... this was first thought...

 

[ARC]

PSS... it just dawned on me as i scrolled away...

Perhaps....... Ottoman.

A MAmaluk bowl.... errr...... MAmluk ?

Not sure how its spelled.

 

[ARC]

MAMLUK...

 

[Joecoins]

Thank you very much for taking the time to comment and give some help.
Is it the script in your opinion that is definitely seeming islamic. Or the whole peice?
Atleast one other member has suggested to me ,based on the art
" cross out anything Islamic or South Asian. So not Persian, Arabic or Indian"..
I kinda feel that way also.
I see the similarity to Mamluk stuff, but I find they're stuff has more of the specific floral pattern and different script.
I have read turk and mongol nomadic people's learned the book and converted to Islam.
I also read how the Turks and the tengrism practicing people were sincretic and would adopt aspects of multiple religions/cultures. To me the art with the horses and dogs and the figures dress, the tree of life, appears not islamic.

 

[Joecoins]

been playing with the colors in my attempt to get the script recognized on google lens

 

[Joecoins]

finished highlighting the text , and some suspicions added, turk/mongol clan seal script , coins from gold horde and ilkhanate,

 

[Joecoins]

Medieval Censer from Tartaria ?

 

[ARC]

Ok Joe... After coming back to this (sorry it took so long i have been busy)...

Moorish.

 

[ARC]

 

[Joecoins]

Thanks for the suggestion and the example. The art detail is alot more similar I agree. But I'm not shure. I still think mine is more eastern.
Several months ago someone found at a thrift a large chalice with four images and script that they can not and has not yet been identified it is very similar to what you just shared

 

[Joecoins]

In a comparison to mine this was shared
Armenian. Also very similar....