My Stone Tool Finds

[Dave N Japan]

I have posted this on Todays' Finds also,
But now what is it?... I may have to take a trip to the museum to find out,but if anyone may know what these are for.. I would be happy to find out.. I'm a little reluctant to take them to the local archaeologist, If you know what I mean? Maybe someday!

Anyway, these are the pictures with a nickle in the picture for size.

The small ones are 3 CM and the large one is littler over 5 cm tall.

They all have two holes, one on the side and one in the bottom.
Of the 4, three look like they have burn makes on the bottom...see pictures. I'm thinking they had something to do with fire or making fire or used to light pipes in some way or maybe are pipes of some kind before metal pipes. They all have holes on top for a small cord.

Like I say, I found the large one 20 years ago while digging up a old coin. The other three were close together this weekend at a cave entrance. The big one was found near a castle site.
Any help by anyone that may idea or have seen something like this in other countries, please let me know...
Thanks Dave

 

Amazon Forum Fav 👍

Treasure of Victoria Peak - Grab it through Amazon!

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

[=diving doc ]

The eyelet on the bottom is a conundrum, isn't it?
Doc
******
Nah, it is to tie a cord onto for those that disagree with me to hang themselves - of course in the case of mi Gypsy it is to keep her from escaping heheheeheeh

Tropical Tramp

P.S, hey this is fun, progressive communal logical thinking which in the end may turn out to be erroneous, but still fun. More fun than the Mensa test.

 

Amazon Forum Fav 👍

Diving for Pleasure and Treasure - Grab it through Amazon!

[Devilflish]

I believe them to be pipes. A little research below.

The Orchard Site (46MS61)

Another important village site in Mason County is the Orchard site (46MS61). The village is located on a second terrace of the Ohio River, approximately six miles above the mouth of the Kanawha. The property was once known as Riverview, the home of Dr. Jesse Bennett, who, in 1794, performed the first known Caesarean operation in North America. Most of the archaeological site was located in the old orchard that was planted sometime in the early 1800s.

Over 50 smoking pipes were found at the Orchard site, as well as hundreds of projectile points, bone and shell beads, bone tools, and copper or brass ornaments. The Orchard site was also multi-component with earlier, possibly Woodland burials below the village site.

Devil

 

[Devilflish]

I think the small hole on the top would be used for tying the pipe to oneself so it wouldnt get lost

in the smokers opium induced delerium........

 

[Devilflish]

Peoples on the other side of the world could also come up with similiar devices to smoke substances.

I was not saying that these pipes were from georgia.

Devil

 

[Gypsy Heart]

Well Here in the States we have found multiple types of stone pipes from the begining of our Indian culture,including hand bowls, which are similiar to the ones Dave found in the cave...but havent found any type of evidence YET to account for the stone eyelet. And Again...I think we need to go farther back into civilization that where we have been looking....Actually...if we are talking substance use....then look to the cold weather climates....no stems on the hand bowls for a reason...they were cupped in the hand in order to keep lips off of the cold stem...wind from blowing them out and hand warmer.......

 

[Devilflish]

Those that mentioned they could be fishing weights may be interested in this. I have

in my artifacts collection is a thing called a plum bob or a plummet stone. Some say the stone was used for

fishinf net weights or throwing the pre-historic people would throw the net at a flock of birds hoping to snag

one in the net. I will put a picture up if i can figure out how.

Devil

 

[Devilflish]

Here we go.

 

[Gypsy Heart]

observation...a couple of these have burn residue around the outside of them,the lip and very little on the inside of the bowl itself...the one on the end has none..in or out...The first one is rounded where the eyelet is formed ...while the others are more squared off and indention is made ...and the one ,isnt centered,but off to the side . The side holes all are formed in alignment with the eyelet...so if a cord was looped through it,and worn as a pendant...the side hole would be facing outward ,so that when flipped up the hole would be where it belonged in order to inhale or attach stem,without removing it from neck.
What ever this item was,it would have been used often if they took the time to make the eyelet and wear it around their neck.

 

[Dave N Japan]

Gees, I wake up this morning with all this great information and insight!
Where to start..
What most of what you guys have talked about I have been thinking too,
Devil, The stone pipes from America do add a lot of info and tend to make me believe they are pipes of some kind.
( I think I have read where Okinawa had contact with Georgia around 200 BC HAHA)
Like you said, peoples from different parts of the world could come up with the same basic idea.
About the question that has come up, Opium/Tobacco...When did they come into use on Okinawa? I have read nothing on this so far. Why were the three small ones found in the same pit? Were they left as a offering to the dead, this area may have been use for burial, I did not see anything that would indicate this, I did come u with some small bones that appear to be small animals. I left them there along with some small pieces of pottery. I am sure the cave was used as shelter at one time or another. It overlooks the ocean and would of been a ideal place to get out of the weather..We have many typhoons here every year..They call this Typhoon alley!

I have not read anything about the use of Opium in Okinawa, not sure if it was a big problem. Then again, that is not something that a country wants to really have in its history books. With Shanghai only being a one hour plain ride across the pond and that was one of the most notorious opium ports of its day.
But like doc said, the opium thing was 1700-1800's thing and I am sure the bronze and brass pipes were in well use at this time and stone was well out of the window for the use of smoking anything, unless some people were too poor to buy the metal type and kept the stone/clay type pipes around. I will have another look tonight and see about the white looking one..It look as though it may be a clay type material.
On the eyelet issue, I would say the were kept around their necks, but on the small ones, they are very small holes. It would have to be a very small string.
I have a great used book I bought and just got from (The Cellar Book Store) Archaeology of the Ryukyu Islands by Richard Person, U of Hawaii 1969, great old book with pictures,but no pipes I had some stone hammer stones.
Anyway, Thanks for the help guys, Wish yu were here and we could do some looking around together.
I will post again tonight with a close picture of the holes and exact size.

Gypsy, I did clang them together last night and they just sounded like a couple of rocks hitting each other..
I know it is hard to tell with only pictures. They are thick. but that was a good idea.
Doc, thanks for the video of Yonaguni,,That is a strange place.
Thanks to TT too! Your drawings are very good and look as if they are right on the money..Just some planks to filled!
Talk to you guys later... Back to work..I'm wasting your tax payers money!!.but its Friday! Yea!
Your right Gypsy about the one on the end...Looks like it was never used! makes me wonder why? Maybe the guy had these three in a bag and had used two already...Then got hit in the head or something!

 

[Dave N Japan]

Thanks Doc, I can't get to open right now, I will try again later here and at home, Some things get blocked here at work! The other thing worked this morning.
You may be right, The large stone was found in a area outside the castle where they use to pray to ancestors (Utaki Area) Not much there now,but could of been a very important area back then. and caves could of been another place that was sacred, especially at the entrance.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

HMMMMMMM!!!

a) it is constructed of fired clay, not stone.
B) it is aprox 1" in diameter
C) it has a hole for a carrying cord.
D) it has been burned at the entance only, not deep inside , exactly as a normal pipe does.
E) it is heavy to control the heat from a buring substance.
F) it has doc's figerprints impressed in it while in the stupors of an Opium induced short ride to Islamic heaven.
G) it has no qualities of a bell.


This is enough, it is a device for smoking a narcotic of some type, in short a "PIPE"!

Speaking of narcotics, every civilization has managed to find something, they did also, perhaps now unknown., but could bear an investigation.


Tropical Tramp

 

[Dave N Japan]

You Guy s are up late...2:00 afternoon here in Japan, I like that drawing! Just why around the neck and where did they keep the tobacco... If in pouch, why not tobacco and pipe together? And then you got the pipe stem.. Where was it kept?
Maybe it was a status symbol ( Hey Man ,,,Nice Pipe You Got There... Yes, My Girlfriend Gave it To Me!!
Anyway, Thanks again for the imput!

 

[Dave N Japan]

Was a Marine many years ago, Still work on a Marine base here, but as a government building engineer. I'm the Detachment Foreman for Camp Schwab.

http://archaeology.about.com/gi/dyn...ttp://members.tripod.com/williamsem/index.htm

HAHA ..DOC, I posted this after I got home and then went back to see your site,,,Surprise! Thanks It is a good read!

Here is another..I have posted this before..
http://rca.open.ed.jp/web_e/history/story/hisindex3.html

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

=Devilflish
I believe them to be pipes. A little research below.

The Orchard Site (46MS61)

Another important village site in Mason County is the Orchard site (46MS61). The village is located on a second terrace of the Ohio River, approximately six miles above the mouth of the Kanawha. The property was once known as Riverview, the home of Dr. Jesse Bennett, who, in 1794, performed the first known Caesarean operation in North America. Most of the archaeological site was located in the old orchard that was planted sometime in the early 1800s.

Over 50 smoking pipes were found at the Orchard site, as well as hundreds of projectile points, bone and shell beads, bone tools, and copper or brass ornaments. The Orchard site was also multi-component with earlier, possibly Woodland burials below the village site.
Devil
*****************
Very good devil, very good, more.

Tropical Tramp

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Dave N Japan ]
You Guy s are up late...2:00 afternoon here in Japan, I like that drawing! Just why around the neck and where did they keep the tobacco... If in pouch, why not tobacco and pipe together? And then you got the pipe stem.. Where was it kept?
Maybe it was a status symbol ( Hey Man ,,,Nice Pipe You Got There... Yes, My Girlfriend Gave it To Me!!
Anyway, Thanks again for the imput!
*****************
Tobaco pouches were very popular in the orient, some extremely elaborate. Remember they had no pockets, so how would you carry a pipe around?

Tropical Tramp

 

[Dave N Japan]

While we are on the subject...here are some brass and bronze pipe mouth pieces..The are of different diameter and looks as if the stems that went inside would fit some of the the holes in the stones.
some of them have designs on them..as you can see I have not cleaned them very well!
Good Night Guys..Off to dream land... Maybe I will dream of smoking some herb!

Hey Devil, I would like to see more of those stones you found! Did you find that is a stream??

 

[Devilflish]

Hey Dave,

That piece i found in a field after it was plowed. First i thought it was a piece of metal off a tractor, because it is made from hematite. It looks and feels like a piece of metal. I have many other artifacts made of stone, arrowheads, scrapers, axes, hoes. I will put up a few pics soon. I also have a, well I dont know what the heck it is. I found it in a creek in Illinois not Japan -- Divin Doc. Although it does have some kind of Asian text of some sort on it. I think its made of lead or tin. I will put up a pic of it also. I will do a close up of the text.

Devil

PS:
thanks for the kudos Tropical Tramp

 

[Peg Leg]

All you guys that are thinking it is a pipe are off in left field.
One time I was stationed on this Island and had a chance to visit with many of the locals. So I have a question--- How many of you have ever burned incense? This is what these clay items are-FOR BURNING INCENSE. These are the poor man burners. The rich had Bronse burners.
Sometimes when you would burn different incense the aroma would change and become bad smelling. The holes in the top was to remove the burner maybe using a small stick or bambo. There was also a clay plate that this Incense device would set over. You would light the incense and set the cover over the burning incense. This is why the opening or bottom is burnt. Good conversation anyway.
Peg Leg

 

[Gypsy Heart]

All you guys that are thinking it is a pipe are off in left field.
One time I was stationed on this Island and had a chance to visit with many of the locals. So I have a question--- How many of you have ever burned incense? This is what these clay items are-FOR BURNING INCENSE. These are the poor man burners. The rich had Bronse burners.
Sometimes when you would burn different incense the aroma would change and become bad smelling. The holes in the top was to remove the burner maybe using a small stick or bambo. There was also a clay plate that this Incense device would set over. You would light the incense and set the cover over the burning incense. This is why the opening or bottom is burnt. Good conversation anyway.
Peg Leg

Why the eyelet?

 

[Devilflish]

Thanks for the tip doc. I just took many pics. Will post three or four. Hopefully with better results. I am learnig a new camera.

Devil