MY NEW TROMMEL PROJECT FOR A FRIEND

[jog]

I HAVE BEEN BUILDING THIS NEW TROMMEL FOR MY 74 YEAR OLD MINING PARTNER. I'M ABOUT HALF WAY THERE....

 

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[JeromeAz]

At what point along a screen is the rock finally washed? I went to bed having rewatched Joe's videos and thinking about his "my rocks are clean" comment. Where along that screen/trommel did that happen.

It would be interesting to know, during say a 1/2 hour run, where the material in the drum no longer has fines associated with it. Sample every 6" or so. Does that screen, and structure to support it, really need to be that long?

I've considered the spraybar lifter idea and the issue there is the inlet water will have to be at the rotation point. Not that it couldn't be done, mind you, there'd be a seal or something at the bearing. I do not believe the spray would be contained to inside the drum without a shield. At various rotation points the spray would not be pointed at material or covered by material and likely pointed at the open screen. Though nothing says that shield has to be something of any weight. Just needs no not fly off when the spray hits it. Lastly, there's the issue of holes plugging when the water pressure drops.

Rotation point. No won't work, that is if we're talking about the same thing. If your talking the five spray bar lifters being connected together with 5 pipes connecting in the center to the water source. Doesn't matter which end you put it on, the pipes will block the rocks from coming out. It has to be external. Tubing on the outside wrapped around the drum connected to the spray bars. The tubing on the outside is actually two piece. The inner half is stationary and the outer turns with the drum with a seal on each side. That's if you want to get high tech.

 

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[jcazgoldchaser]

Does it matter where its clean at as long its clean before it drops out.

Yes, because of...

Does it need to be that long. I guess that's up to you how long you want it. It could be shorter. It's like the long sluices.

...this. If you want to build a lightweight trommel, maybe even backpackable, you probably don't want the barrel 20' long. Especially if the rocks are clean at 27".

Does it really need to be that long when your catching everything in the first 3 or 4 riffles. Some people like longer. Maybe they're compensating?

The cover doesn't have to be heavy just put latches on it to hold it down.

I was suggesting simpler/lighter than that. My dad had one of these rollup thingies for keeping a trash bag open when filling with leaves.



Even 1/2 a cut up plastic trash can could direct the overspray back down to the funnel/scoop/trough thingy.

 

[JeromeAz]

I had a thought when I reread this looking for "offensive" posts. If the spraybar isn't rigidly mounted, then so what if the rocks make contact? Some kind of bungee attachment was my first thought, but a lever arm with a spring would probably be simpler.

Another thought, isn't rotation speed going to have something to do with how far up the rocks get?
[edit]I see you addressed that in post #41.

Last, on drum size I believe the limit in my case is the size I can pick up with a shovel. How long can you go about scooping 8"+ rocks into the hopper?

No it wasn't that. There's no offense.

The faster it goes the higher the rock climbs. Go too fast and it'll stick to drum.

The drum will only take rocks that will fit through the hole going into it. Anything bigger will just be sitting in your hopper.

 

[JeromeAz]

Yes, because of...
...this. If you want to build a lightweight trommel, maybe even backpackable, you probably don't want the barrel 20' long. Especially if the rocks are clean at 27".
I was suggesting simpler/lighter than that. My dad had one of these rollup thingies for keeping a trash bag open when filling with leaves.

<img src="http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=823852"/>

Even 1/2 a cut up plastic trash can could direct the overspray back down to the funnel/scoop/trough thingy.

Backpackable?? Im not talking about backpacking one. I guess you are though. So are you going to backpack a trommel, shovel, hose and two engines? Good luck with that! There is a guy that made a trommel that you can backpack. Its made from a five gallon bucket cut in half, screen added in the middle. A frame made from pvc. A pvc handle for turning it and he uses a bucket to pour water into it. Its very light weight.

For the cover you could use anything you want. Throw a door mat on it.

On the 20" versus 27" its in the angle. Angle it above level and it'll wash those rocks all day right at the beginning of the trommel.

 

[jcazgoldchaser]

Rotation point. No won't work, that is if we're talking about the same thing. If your talking the five spray bar lifters being connected together with 5 pipes connecting in the center to the water source. Doesn't matter which end you put it on, the pipes will block the rocks from coming out. It has to be external. Tubing on the outside wrapped around the drum connected to the spray bars. The tubing on the outside is actually two piece. The inner half is stationary and the outer turns with the drum with a seal on each side. That's if you want to get high tech.

I see what you're getting at, I was thinking of something this when I posted that earlier:



Replace those 2 rear support arms with tube. Now, water comes in at the aft rotational point and down the tube arms to a rolled tube ring which forms the aft end of the screen



I believe I can get those in various sizes from Industrial Metals. Tubes would run the length of the drum forming the lifter/spray bars and support the screen to non-screen connections. Cleanout plugs at the forward end of the spraybars. But,... I think the whole idea is more trouble than it's worth.

Now wait. As I reviewed and edited this post I watched the video again. Very interesting that first 12s to 50s.

 

[Goodyguy]

I hate to put my 15" Diy trommel on here with these finely engineered examples of craftsmanship but I'll post a photo anyway just in case something I did gives someone an idea or two. The corrugated plastic pipe is smoothwall on the inside and the expanded metal extends the full length of the drum giving it strength, wear resistance, and also helps scrub the material. The aluminum frame is a modified bakers rack from a donut shop.

Total cost for the trommel.....under $300

Don't laugh, it works really great!




The gear motor that drives the drum works off 110v or 12v, the drum speed is variable by the turn of a dial.







GG~

 

[JeromeAz]

I see what you're getting at, I was thinking of something this when I posted that earlier:

YouTube Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_BGTfpczMI"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_BGTfpczMI

Replace those 2 rear support arms with tube. Now, water comes in at the aft rotational point and down the tube arms to a rolled tube ring which forms the aft end of the screen

<img src="http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=823853"/>

I believe I can get those in various sizes from Industrial Metals. Tubes would run the length of the drum forming the lifter/spray bars and support the screen to non-screen connections. Cleanout plugs at the forward end of the spraybars. But,... I think the whole idea is more trouble than it's worth.

Now wait. As I reviewed and edited this post I watched the video again. Very interesting that first 12s to 50s.

YouTube Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_BGTfpczMI#t=12s"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_BGTfpczMI#t=12s

I've seen that video. I like his trommel, just not the way he has it mounted. You see those big rocks trying to get through. Not good. I wonder how long before it winds up bent and out of shape. Like I said before in this post you don't have to water to use a trommel. Now if the dirt is muddy then it would be a good idea.

The spray bars wouldn't be too bad if you can by the parts if not and you have to make them then that would be a lot of work.

 

[JeromeAz]

I hate to put my 15" Diy trommel on here with these finely engineered examples of craftsmanship but I'll post a photo anyway just in case something I did gives someone an idea or two. The corrugated plastic pipe is smoothwall on the inside and the expanded metal extends the full length of the pipe giving it strength, wear resistance, and also helps scrub the material. The aluminum frame is a modified bakers rack from a donut shop. Total cost.....under $300

Don't laugh, it works really great!

<img src="http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=823866"/>

The gear motor that drives the drum works off 110v or 12v the drum speed is variable by the turn of a dial.

<img src="http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=823869"/>

Washes rocks real good too ...........
<img src="http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=823897"/>

GG~

I've seen your trommel before. I though that was an awesome idea! I was going to build something like that using the 12" green abs pipe. Cheap and lightweight. Then I saw Jogs trommel and really liked it over all the rest I've seen.

Great build! Good job!

 

[jcazgoldchaser]

I hate to put my 15" Diy trommel on here with these finely engineered examples of craftsmanship but I'll post a photo anyway just in case something I did gives someone an idea or two.

Damn,.. now I want a donut,..

 

[AzViper]

I hate to put my 15" Diy trommel on here with these finely engineered examples of craftsmanship but I'll post a photo anyway just in case something I did gives someone an idea or two. The corrugated plastic pipe is smoothwall on the inside and the expanded metal extends the full length of the pipe giving it strength, wear resistance, and also helps scrub the material. The aluminum frame is a modified bakers rack from a donut shop.

Total cost for the trommel.....under $300

Don't laugh, it works really great!

View attachment 823866

GG~

GG I like it!!! You are the DIY of these forums and have been for a long time. Your the MacGyver of T Net and the young guys of T Net will be clueless of MacGyver. You’re a believer that the classification area of the trommel does not need to have length. I see lots of copying of design from photos to photos throughout the internet and within this thread. All the action is done prior to the classification where you want to retain the water to wash while not having the water drop out from the cylinder away from the washing rocks. You also have your spray bar properly mounted away from the rotating cylinder. The cylinder has places for the wheels to ride in and where the cylinder is driven from. Clever use of over the counter parts to come up with your trommel.

As I have said before most of the trommel cylinders that are built use three separate parts, solid cylinder, classification screen, soild cylinder using ribs for strength either mounted to the outside or inside. When mounted to the inside this creates action but at the same time will allow rocks to be caught and wipeout the PVC or steel pipe spray bar if the bar does not have proper clearance from the rotating cylinder.

I was planning on having the cylinder made out of one entire piece of metal rolled and perforated in the area I need the holes. But the CNC programing cost and per hole punch proved to be too costly. Instead I had the cylinder rolled as a solid unit. Will drill all my holes using a number of pilot bits and Unibit’s to arrive with the spacing as seen in my drawing. Lots of drilling but the finish product will be second to none. Will pick up my cylinder on my way back from Vegas. Hopefully I will have an extended stay in Vegas at the World Series Of Poker.

Again great concept on your trommel GG...



Drill Guide. I believe I have about 700 holes to drill.

 

[AzViper]

Nope, I'm the 'less screen, more water slush area' guy.

Spray bar inside reduces max material size.
Spray bar outside reduces efficiency because screen occasionally blocks stream.

What size rocks do you think your placing in a small portable 12" trommel that's going to reduce max material size due to the spray bar mounted inside? Furthermore if these rocks are of any large size they need to be able to move from the hopper to the trommel and the spraying of water will not move large rocks. Hmmm now we are increasing the size of the trommel, adding a vibrator, changing the angle of the hopper and buying an excavator. Remember this is a SHOVEL FED TROMMEL. With the spray bar properly mounted through the cylinder where are the issues? We're not redesigning the wheel here guys. I agree with you that the spray bar mounted to the outside reduces the efficiency of the spray of the rocks through the screen. I also agree with the use of a smaller screen length, but if your shoveling 8" rocks then my 6'-4" body is tired and warn out. I am not about to be feeding 8" rocks down a 12" trommel. I would spend more time getting the rocks moved from the hopper to the trommel.

 

[jcazgoldchaser]

What size rocks do you think your placing in a small portable 12" trommel that's going to reduce max material size due to the spray bar mounted inside?

See here... you took my quote made an assumption and asked a question not relevant to my quote.

"Spray bar inside reduces max material size." That is, a pipe, inside a trommel, reduces the maximum size of material that will fit through it. A 4" rock will not fit through a 4" trommel with a spray bar in there. Of course if you're needing to feed 4" rocks, a 4" trommel would be a poor design with either inside or outside spraybars.

And here is what I said in reference to 8" rocks:
"Last, on drum size I believe the limit in my case is the size I can pick up with a shovel. How long can you go about scooping 8"+ rocks into the hopper?"

So,.. how overkill (extra cost, weight) is a 12" trommel in a shovel fed operation, where you are not possibly going to be loading 8" rocks? Why not 8" trommel where you can still fit {and tumble} those 4" rocks?

 

[JeromeAz]

OK boys! Easy now. This how we're going to settle it. Get your trommels, we'll race em! First one to the end of the claim wins! Lol!

 

[jcazgoldchaser]

OK boys! Easy now. This how we're going to settle it. Get your trommels, we'll race em! First one to the end of the claim wins! Lol!

No problems here, I just can't figure out why he's not reading what I posted.

 

[jcazgoldchaser]

Some thinking chair time had me pondering vibrating the hopper with incoming water pressure or maybe the tub rotation (bump method). Then it hit me that GG's trommel puts the motor close to the hopper and simply drive another pulley at speed to rotate an unbalanced weight attached to the hopper.

Much like your cell phone



Or the big boys


[edit]
(both of those are attached to the motor itself, which would require another motor,... not what I'm suggesting)

 

[JeromeAz]

jc,

Its not overkill. Overkill would be the trommel on the video Viper put on. Now if that guy was loading that trommel with just a shovel, that would be overkill. Which actually it looks like it. You see how small those rocks are in that giant trommel.

Say you want to run 4" rocks so you build a 6" trommel. Problem is what if you go to a different place and it has 6" rocks or 8" rocks. Then your kind of screwed. You built your trommel too small. So you build a 12" trommel then you can run up to, say 10" or 11" depending on how you built your drum. If your running that big though, even 7" up to 12" you might as well just get a bucket of water and a scrub brush because that big you'll only be able to feed one at at time. Even 7", two of those equal 14" which is not going to fit in a 12" trommel. So I would not say a 12" trommel is overkill. The smaller the rock the more you can load in the trommel, the bigger the less.

Add a spray bar down the center and you've just cut the size of your trommel in half. Now if you put it at the top then you've saved most of your size just make sure the trommel is going slow enough so the rocks don't climb and hit the spray bar and bend it or break it. Put the spray bar outside and you keep the size. Yes the water will hit the screen but it will still wash the rocks.

My tip of the day!

 

[JeromeAz]

Some thinking chair time had me pondering vibrating the hopper with incoming water pressure or maybe the tub rotation (bump method). Then it hit me that GG's trommel puts the motor close to the hopper and simply drive another pulley at speed to rotate an unbalanced weight attached to the hopper.

Much like your cell phone

YouTube Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykpa5r1bWeE"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykpa5r1bWeE

Or the big boys
<img src="http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=824340"/>

[edit]
(both of those are attached to the motor itself, which would require another motor,... not what I'm suggesting)

I tried to add 2 pics but it said invalid file. OK so what this guy did was take two battery operated sanders, removed the pads and screwed them to his hopper. Worked great. He talked about syncing them together. Seems like if you didn't you would get more vibration.

 

[AzViper]

I don't think it took much thinking to vibrate the hopper considering its been done for some time. Why do you think I mentioned it in my post 79. Dry Washers use a fan with a counter weight to vibrate the box. Hopper vibrators have been used for years in cement plants on the hoppers. Do a Google search of Hopper Vibrators or Bin Vibrators.

 

[jcazgoldchaser]

I tried to add 2 pics but it said invalid file. OK so what this guy did was take two battery operated sanders, removed the pads and screwed them to his hopper. Worked great. He talked about syncing them together. Seems like if you didn't you would get more vibration.

Yeah, that was GG in this thread:
http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/sluicing/325010-expanded-metal-classifier-best-design.html

In post #19 of that thread, I posted an offset weight vibration table video that shows what I was suggesting. No additional motors or wiring would be necessary running off the drum's motor.


The reason the pictures were invalid is because they come up as attachments, not a jpg so the Insert Image helper doesn't handle them
http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=732456&d=1355599143&thumb=1
Simply wrap the url with

without using the helper like this:

 

[jcazgoldchaser]

Problem is what if you go to a different place and it has 6" rocks or 8" rocks. Then your kind of screwed.

Aren't you kinda screwed at that point anyway? Now you're hoofing 6 or 8" rocks outta a hole and into the hopper? If I'm doing that, I can leave them in the hopper and let the hopper spray clean them off. But I'd rather have a low mortar tub wash station or something.