My beliefs on dowsing

I've seen it called divining in an older publication that told of pictographs in the Tassili-n-ajjer cave showing a diviner with a forked stick.They (the pictos) are thought to be 8000 years old.Herodotus described how the Scythians dowsed with willow rods in the fifth century B.C. The Queen of Sheba is said to have kept dowsers in her entourage.There is quite a history to dowsing/divining that I was totolly ignorant of till I made a trip to the Library and looked it up.I read that the first writting in English was Robert Doyle (called the father of chemistry?) in an essay dated 1661. That is contradicted by "A Discovery of Subterraneall Treasure" by Gabriel Plattes 1639.I got a kick out of a passage on dowsing (favorable) in "The Confessions of an English Opium-eater" Thomas de Quincey 1822. No wonder he could see sh!stuff. Successful dowsers included Leonardo da Vinci,Sir Isaac Newton, Thomas A Edison and Dr.Albert Einstein.There are literally reams upon reams of 2nd party evidence as well as eyewitness accounts.Even read a Pope was a diviner/dowser.
 

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"seen it called divining" Root word "divine" Dictionary definition: "1.) of, from, or like God or a god 2.) wonderful * discover by intuition or magic". Certainly you don't want to go there? To do so, would be to put you/it in the camp of magic, spiritual, etc... And with all the science/natural proofs you post, that'd be contradicting yourself. Wanna try again?
 

Hey Tom…Gee Tom..Is that not the word that is used in the Bible ? I’m not the one that writes the books and makes up definitions…Art
 

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
This article is about the term "Deity" in the context of mysticism and theology. See God for details on monotheistic and henotheistic usages, as well as god (male deity) or goddess for details on polytheistic usages. For other uses, see either God (disambiguation) or Gods (disambiguation)
A deity or god is a postulated preternatural or supernatural being, who is always of significant power, worshipped, thought holy, divine, or sacred, held in high regard, or respected by human beings.
Deities assume a variety of forms, but are frequently depicted as having human or animal form. Some faiths and traditions consider it blasphemous to imagine or depict the deity as having any concrete form. They are usually immortal. They are commonly assumed to have personalities and to possess consciousness, intellects, desires, and emotions much like humans. Such natural phenomena as lightning, floods, storms, other 'acts of God', and miracles are attributed to them, and they may be thought to be the authorities or controllers of every aspect of human life (such as birth or the afterlife). Some deities are asserted to be the directors of time and fate itself, to be the givers of human law and morality, to be the ultimate judges of human worth and behavior, and to be the designers and creators of the Earth or theuniverse. Some of these gods have no power at all—they are simply worshipped.

So what are we arguing about ?
 

"So what are we arguing about ?" I'm simply pointing out that to use the synonym "divination" for dowsing merely backs up my assertion that dowsing is of a spritual source, not something that works d/t science or nature.
 

These are your words...Not mine.

Spiritual
Supernatural
random chance.
hocus pocus
occult
mystics
Proved.
Tarot cards?
seances?
Ouji boards?
 

WHEN DOES RANDOM CHANCE BECOME A FRAUD?


This author has a significant background in the sciences, studying about probabilities in college, also several years teaching nuclear reactor technology in the Navy's nuclear propulsion program. Nowhere in the undergraduate or postgraduate instruction I received did I hear of any difficulties with theories about randomness. Most branches of science depend heavily upon the concept of randomness. According to randomness theory it is a 50-50 random chance whether the coin I flip turns up heads or tails. This can be "proved" by all sorts of experiments.

Now let the human mind and/or consciousness start to become involved in so-called random chance events. Scientists have completed studies in this area. For example, set up an experiment in which a human subject guesses which one of five shapes is on the back of a card. The results are startling to those believing in random chance. Some people regularly and routinely far exceed the 20% success rate one would expect. Further, they are as capable even if the experiment is rearranged so that no one, not even the experimenter, knows what is on the back of a given card during the test.

Spoon-bending is a widely demonstrated example of how the human conscious mind can influence outside objects (projection of consciousness). A group of people gather, each with a cheap metal spoon in hand and strongly focus their conscious intent upon bending their spoons. Lo and behold, most of the spoons bend like putty and/or are significantly warmed at the narrow bending point (The bending point is not where the hand holds the spoon.) This seems rarely to work for one person, but for many gathered with strong visualized intention, the result is many bent spoons. According to theories of randomness, even one spoon bending in such a fashion carries almost zero probability. To have it happen predictably "must be fraud."

Fun Growth Exercise. Instead of instantly calling spoon-bending "nothing but a fraud," I suggest attending such a spoon-bending party. Or throw your own party if you know of no others in your vicinity. What do you have to lose except some old cobwebs in the brain?

For decades "strange" and "bizarre" results have appeared in physics experiments that concern themselves with small waves or particles. Explanations for these results have proven elusive, even with accepted theories such as "uncertainty principles." Such "bizarreness" has been a thorn in the sides of those in the scientific community.

Perhaps a "bizarre" (to conventional scientists) theory might explain these strange results. Consider the possibility that randomness theory is like Newton's theory, valid only up to a point. The monkey wrench in Newton's theory arises when speeds approach that of light. Then Einstein's theories require alterations in Newton's formulas. In terms of randomness, it is my belief that the monkey wrench in randomness theory arises when there is significant conscious (and/or unconscious) intent. Such intent seems to significantly alter the situation and often overrides mathematical probabilities and randomness formulas.
 

Dell, you say: "There is no proof that Dowsing & Divination are the same" Yet Art says: "I've seen it called divining in an older publication" I was only going on what Art said. And actually, they are synonymous. "Divination" is just the older word for it, but "dowsing" is the current more commonly used word. I can understand current "dowsers" wanting to distance themselves from this word, as it contains the immistakable roots of magic, mystical, supernatural, etc....

Art, trying to see how your post connects to dowsing. Besides random-ness, I see things like ESP research (the guessing of the hidden cards), and spoon bending. I like that. Good that you are making a kinship between things like that and dowsing. Because if you were to say that dowsing is scientific or naturally (as in, a keen sense of smell) based, I'd take issue. But as long as you put on the same keel as the supernatural and spooky stuff, we're on the same page. Thanx!
 

Gee Tom …I have been posting them for you..It seems that you have made your mind up about Dowsing. I am showing you that you don’t know the meanings of the words you are using. …
Spiritual
Supernatural
random chance.
hocus pocus
occult
mystics
Proved.
Tarot cards?
seances?
Ouji boards? …Now if you want to know about Dowsing we can talk. If you want to talk about Spiritual and Supernatural you may want to go to another board...Art
 

Gentlemen: Semantics, semantics. Devining can mean various things, depending upon the context or intention of the statement. It can involve spiritual, religious things, Logical deductions, or simply guessing. It also can refer to ME,. Devine, delightful hehehe.

So why this penchant to pinpoint a definition, which by it's very nature is too nebulous?? Is it important?

Don Jose de La Mancha
 

Art, you say: "If you want to talk about Spiritual and Supernatural you may want to go to another board...Art" Right! Yes, dowsing does need to go to a religion or supernatural topic board. Glad we are in agreement on this Art.
 

Tom_in_CA said:
Art, you say: "If you want to talk about Spiritual and Supernatural you may want to go to another board...Art" Right! Yes, dowsing does need to go to a religion or supernatural topic board. Glad we are in agreement on this Art.
Click to expand...

You are correct the Supernatural as it Pertains to Religion belongs in Religion.
(Preaching, Quoting, Etc.)
and will be Deleted from here.

If not connected to Religion or Dowsing I will allow it in everything else.
( Ghosts, Etc. )

The Supernatural as it pertains to Dowsing can stay. (Ouija, Scrying, Tarot Etc.)
If you'r using it for Treasure Hunting.

Thanks !
 

"Fun Growth Exercise. Instead of instantly calling spoon-bending "nothing but a fraud," I suggest attending such a spoon-bending party. Or throw your own party if you know of no others in your vicinity. What do you have to lose except some old cobwebs in the brain? "

I haven't heard of any spoon bending parties in my area recently.... Would such a party increase my popularity with the gals? ;)

Spoon bending party at Jeffro's place! Come one, come all! Jello shots and strip poker to immediately follow......
 

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Here Jeffro, just for you.

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