More Bigscoop Tid Bit

[bigscoop]

Masterpoe, keep one thing in mind. Even "if" the alleged wealth was actually transferred it would have required an extremely well arranged operation at both ends. Given this it is almost a certainty that said wealth wasn't just abandoned as the narration suggest and the likelihood that it, or any portion of it, still exist is quite the stretch. Far too many influential and capable people involved, most certainly more then what is referenced in the narration.

And along these same train of thought, let us assume that the author did produce the pamphlet as a means of shaking the bushes for that missing unintelligible piece of paper to something he only thought to still exist. Could very easily be that some inquiry, through Ward, as is suggested in the narration, reached the unknown author where he learned that the wealth had in fact been recovered long ago. Ward would never be the wiser unless the author desired to tell him. And so in this scenario the further distribution of the pamphlets and the hunt was simply abandoned. There's just no possible way to know which of the endless scenarios might actually be accurate? And as for those two remaining ciphers, you can take it to the bank that they were not presented in their original form, if in fact they ever held a true clear text at all?

 

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[bigscoop]

I didn't proof read any of this, but.....here you go;

There are many elements to the story that project a certain amount of unspoken knowledge in regards to the presented details in the narration. Many of these elements have been posted and discussed in these forums, often in great length. But let us focus on just one of these elements for the time being, this being the fact that the author claims he that was making his story public with hope of, “bringing to light the missing paper.”


Now obviously this begs the question, “what missing paper?” I mean according to the alleged letters and such the was to be “a key” delivered to Morriss that would be required to gain full meaning of the coded ciphers , yet in his narration the author already presents a key, a key he claims that unlocked the meaning to C2.


As the story progresses we are told of the other two still unsolved ciphers, one offering the location of a fabulous treasure and the other providing the names of the certain parties, etc. But wait, the author already has the key so why doesn't said key work for the other two ciphers? The alleged Beale letter specifically says “key” in singular form, and not “keys” in a plural form. Also, according to the alleged details offered in the narration, there were only to be three ciphers, one detailing the contents of the alleged vault, one detailing the location of the alleged vault, and one offering the location of the parties. So if the author already has the key and all of the ciphers then what is this other “missing piece of paper” all about and how does he know that it will appear as an “unintelligible” writing? Where, in the letters and the narration is all of this a part of the tale? Quite clearly, it isn't. So, how did the author know about this still missing piece of paper? Obviously he knew a lot more about these subjects then he entered in his “not so honest” narration.


Ok, if the author already possessed a certain amount of unspoken knowledge in regards to the ciphers and the missing paper that he is desiring to bring to light then obviously he must still require that missing piece of paper. Now here comes the really BIG question.....


Do you really think that this author, the holder of the only keys to an all-to promising fortune, is going to put into print the only thing that can hopefully draw that missing piece paper to him? I mean, if does this then he runs the risk of handing those original ciphers over to some unknown person who might possess that vital missing piece of paper that he still requires, thus completely cutting himself out of the picture altogether. On the other hand, if he truly possess the only copies of those ciphers then perhaps all he needs to do is to publish a closely related narration to the true events with the hope of drawing that unknown person with that missing paper to him, the ciphers in that publication being altered in such a way that said person could never apply them anyway.


Basically what you have here is exactly the same situation Beale had allegedly placed Morriss in, Morriss holding the ciphers and another person holding the required key, the only way the ciphers can be decoded is if both are eventually brought together in one place. This is “exactly” the same scenario that the author has described himself as being in, he has the ciphers and someone else completely unknown to him has the other required, “missing piece of paper.”


And if you were the only person planet who possessed the ciphers that promised the location of an immense amount of wealth then the last thing you would want to do is to attach your name and identity to those secret ciphers, this no doubt quite possibly being the equivalent of putting out a contract on your own life. Hence, if any of the above is accurate, this being the reason why the author elected to remove his name from the publication in favor of a trusted middleman, this being Ward. In this scenario the holder of the missing piece of paper would have to make contact with Ward who in turn passed the information onto the unknown author. In the end the “missing piece of paper” and the “original ciphers” can finally be brought together in a cautious and well-arranged manner.


And consider this as well. The key was said to be held in Saint Louis so why didn't the author go looking for his missing piece of paper in Saint Louis. Why did he elect to publish his narration only in the Lunchburg region? Is it possibly because he also had unspoken knowledge about the general location of that missing piece of paper? Most likely the answer is a resounding, yes.

 

[franklin]

But the author did go to St. Louis, MO. looking for the "key" or "missing piece of paper" James Beverly Ward married their daughter.

 

[bigscoop]

But the author did go to St. Louis, MO. looking for the "key" or "missing piece of paper" James Beverly Ward married their daughter.

The author of the pamphlet never claims that he went to St. Louis for any reason, let alone in search of the key. I think you're confusing the information in the alleged Beale letters with the author's narration. Beale and his party allegedly went to St. Louis, but the author never claims that he did as such.

 

[bigscoop]

The narration is offered in three parts;
The alleged Beale letters.
The alleged Morriss testimony.
And the author's alleged involvement in the affair many years afterwards.

The only place the author ever eludes to having traveled is Richmond, this being the same place that Morriss alleged that some of the party was from, or lived near.

But it's interesting that you brought this into mind as this little explanation hints that perhaps the author held some knowledge of the parties involved. Perhaps through family ties, maybe? Or perhaps through affiliation of some type?

 

[franklin]

John Hopkins Otey and Angelina Brown Otey, one or either of them could have been the author. You must remember the story does not say that Robert Morris could have confided with the author in the early 1840's, Robert Morris was on his death bed sick at the time then. When he got better then he could have called John Hopkins Otey to his bedside and gave him the ironbox with all the papers. What year did John Hopkins Otey die?

 

[ECS]

Is this the iron box that was shown to Pauline Innis by way of George Hart's introduction to the Otey family?

 

[franklin]

Is this the iron box that was shown to Pauline Innis by way of George Hart's introduction to the Otey family?

Could be, ECS, if the story can be verified as being authentic and telling of a physical treasure instead of a mental treasure. While looking up this about the Otey Family, I found the name of Robert Morris' niece. It was at her home where he passed away in 1863. I am going to keep researching until I find the beginning and end of this story. I also found names of James B. Ward's grandchildren and to whom they married and had children. Maybe I can find one of them living that has some information to enlighten us on the subject of James Beverly Ward and the Beale Papers.

 

[ECS]

When Martha Rivers Adams interviewed Adeline Ward McVeigh in 1934, also present were her daughter, Lelia L Walker, and grandson, Gorham B Walker. Gorham B Walker Jr was on the board of overseers of Sweetbriar College in 1967.
I believe that are still members of this Walker family in Lynchburg.

 

[franklin]

I believe there is a lot of James B. Ward's kin in Lynchburg, Va. Most moved off to Alabama, Kentucky, California, Oregon and Alabama. Hard to track them down especially since you can not get any research after 1930 as far as census records and SS Records.

 

[bigscoop]

Could be, ECS, if the story can be verified as being authentic and telling of a physical treasure instead of a mental treasure.

"Mental treasure".......I love it! That's priceless......

 

[franklin]

I believe there is a lot of James B. Ward's kin in Lynchburg, Va. Most moved off to Alabama, Kentucky, California, Oregon and Alabama. Hard to track them down especially since you can not get any research after 1930 as far as census records and SS Records.

I found last night that James Beverly Ward had a nephew named Robert Morris Otey. James Beverly Ward's son that delivered the mail in Lynchburg, Va named his son Thomas Otey Ward. I can not find out what year Thomas was born so I don't know if it was before the interview with Clayton Hart in 1903 or after. Most likely it was before the meeting.

 

[ECS]

.....you're a hoot....for sure...

Isn't that "Cahooter" ? For sure.

 

[bigscoop]

While I still have some documents to pour over, I think I've finally located, "the alleged party", these men being part of a secret commission established by James Monroe during the Adams Onis Treaty negotiations.

 

[bigscoop]

Also, "350 miles north of Santa Fe.," is actually in reference to the, "42 parallel north", or the agreed line of border in that treaty. This line was absolutely critical for the United States in gaining access, or an established route, to the Pacific.

 

[bigscoop]

While I still have some documents to pour over, I think I've finally located, "the alleged party", these men being part of a secret commission established by James Monroe during the Adams Onis Treaty negotiations.

The full scope of this commission is somewhat sketchy as there exist curious information in reference to other parts, however, the general purpose of the commission, or at least part purpose, was to, "In order to obtain more accurate information than that appearing in the press, Monroe, shortly after he entered office, sent a special commission to South America to report on the stability of the newly independent states."

However, just as with this Monroe also had intelligence in regard to Mexico's stability and it's ability to form a unified recognizable republican form of government as well. As with the other South American republics, it is from all of this that it was determined that these new republics could take as long as 4-5 years, perhaps even longer, before they could form those recognizable forms of government. This was the purpose of the ten-year term outlined in the Beale narration.

This is also probably why the author made reference to Beale's appearance during his second visit as being darker and swarthier then before, as if much exposure to the sun, etc.

​

 

[ECS]

Once again, Bigscoop, you have created an alternate story to the one in the Beale Papers narrative text, that has nothing to do with that Beale story that Ward copyrighted as agent in 1885.
...and this "commission" was so secret that Monroe's cabinet had no knowledge, and Beale had to leave coded messages to a Lynchburg hotelier because his wife was a fantastic cook.
Beale not was James Bond, and Morriss, not "M".

 

[bigscoop]

1862, "that second year of the civil war"........now I know the following is probably going to be a little difficult for some of you to swallow, however, here it is;

"The Statue of Freedom –also known as Armed Freedom or simply Freedom–is a bronze ... Work was halted in 1861 because of the Civil War, but by the end of 1862 the statue was finished and temporarily displayed on the Capitol grounds."

This is pretty much in reference to the "game that is worth the candle"......or to the "flames of freedom". During the Adams Onis Treaty the entire hemisphere was all about the fight for "liberty". This, in essence, was what the civil war was all about, the south and the north embraced in a bloody conflict over that very issue, both sides seeing the issue from completely different perspectives. The south was desiring to hold on to it's traditional liberties while the north was fighting for equality, unity, and the emancipation of slaves, thus their freedom and liberty from the chains that bind them. This, and the rest of the narration as well, represent the "connexions" that readers are suppose to seek.

"The Statue of Freedom—also known as Armed Freedom or simply Freedom—is a bronze statue designed by Thomas Crawford (1814–1857) that, since 1863, has crowned the dome of the U.S. Capitol in Washington, D.C."

 

[bigscoop]

Once again, Bigscoop, you have created an alternate story to the one in the Beale Papers narrative text, that has nothing to do with that Beale story that Ward copyrighted as agent in 1885.
...and this "commission" was so secret that Monroe's cabinet had no knowledge, and Beale had to leave coded messages to a Lynchburg hotelier because his wife was a fantastic cook.
Beale not was James Bond, and Morriss, not "M".

No, of course not. Everyone knows that Ward was bond and that Risque and his fabulous library was M. How could we not know this since you keep telling us all this cold hard fact.

It's all elementary, Watson.

 

[ECS]

Well , you need to present the "connexion" to Morriss who told this tale to the unknown author who contacted Ward to act as copyright agent and publisher.
Without that, it is just another guessing game without a candle, that has no worth.