Misc data and adventures of a Tayopa treasure hunter

apologize, I accidentally posted this in the status of Tayopa, when it should be in here.



Hola, I am going to begin reposting some of my posts in the past for our newer members. Certain stories will not be repeated because they are reserved for the book.


Good evening my friends: regarding bells, one of the accompanying stories of Tayopa is that one of the resident Jesuits of Tayopa cast bells. This would be in the late 1500's -> early 1600's.

Aprox. 15 miles to the north of Tayopa, on the same mt range / Mesa, lies the area known as "La Mesa del campanero.- The Mesa of the Bell maker". There are bits of copper slag to be found here and there. Some day I will run down the source of the copper and the other metals used in the bell alloy.

I originally started looking for Tayopa upon hearing, but not personally seeing, that Yeager, an American mining engineer, had purchased a small hand bell with "Guadalupe de Tayopa "cast on it's rim shortly before dying.. All attempts to locate it were in vain, it had been sent to relatives in Los Angles along with his other personal effects. There the trail seems to have died, I did not pursue it since it had served it's purpose of establishing that Tayopa had existed..

Later while on the trail to a sister lost mine "The Gloria Pan" I ended up at Tubares. The mission had been abandoned, there was no one within miles, but the Church itself was basically intact. It had a brass baptismal bowl with the lid hinged in the center of a brass alloy, approx 4 ft in diameter.

In the tower, which was separate from the main building, there were 24 small bells. Upon investigating I found two large bells crudely hung at the entrance to the grave yard. approx 200 meters away. They were similar, about 4 ft in dia at the rim.

I do not remember exactly what was cast on the rims, but one was "In penitence", and the name of a woman with 17?? The other was in the name of a man.

I later was told by a passing Indian that the original church had been destroyed when the river changed it's course. He also told me that another large bell was in the river bed buried in the sand.

At that time I was completely alone except for my mule for almost two weeks. Now it has a road and an Indian village there.

If I can ever find it in my notes, I will post the data and pictures. There are many blank sections of "Bell casting in the Americas".

Don Jose de La Mancha
 

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Don Jose

apologize, I accidentally posted this in the status of Tayopa, when it should be in here.



Don't mind , is the Ed T syndrome .
 

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Don Jose




Don't mind , is the Ed T syndrome .

What are you trying to imply markmar? As if there is a platinum ore with over 40 ounces of platinum per ton. The price of platinum has been pretty low as of late. After all platinum is rarer than gold and yet gold has a higher value. Sure everyone likes to wear gold jewelry and such but everyone like to drive their cars as well. It is a conspiracy I say. Oh well...I wonder what the mighty oroblanco's thoughts are? I wonder if he thinks such an ore might exist? And ya'll think that Forrest Fenn little treasure is worth searching for. I'd rather search for wire gold, platinum, and diamond...hehehe... Maybe one day I'll return to prospecting. Shoot... Who knows what things might have been like if that assayer in Sacramento, whom I call Soapy Smith, would have been honest with me in the first place. Maybe I would have offered him a partnership in a little venture. Instead I looked at the wire gold he had on display, that he got from my 4.86 lbs of ore, and moved on. If it were not for said betrayal. I may have never discovered platinum and diamond. In a way I'd like to thank that dishonest assayer for lying to me. Thank you Soapy Smith. If it were not for him I would not know what I now know today...hahaha... Go figure... And to think that I was going to take oroblanco and Beth to one of my little holes and show him around. I think that he they would of enjoyed themselves. And I'm sure he would have informed his little circle of friends of said location and I would could have come back on here as oldwaffle. Seeing that oldpancake has already been coined for someone in the past. :)
 

I wonder if anyone actually believes that I have been to the little hole that the original piedras did inga came from? I wonder if I have really been to a little silver mine? Did I give away a paragon diamond in Reno many years ago? Did that dishonest assayer get the wire gold from the hard rock that I gave him to assay? Hmm... Sometimes I find it hard to believe how gullible I actually was. Maybe one day someone will get lucky and stumble across one of my little holes in the wall. So... How little was the little silver the Spanish discovered? That is almost as funny as asking how small is to small? lol Oh well... I am thinking about getting me some 100 mesh screen and I believe my little silver is much smaller than that. But what do I know? I could really care less if anyone finds any of my little holes in the wall... If God is willing someone just may get lucky and get to see what I have been fortunate to see. I wonder if Oro has found any of the treasures that he has sought? Who knows? I personally get a kick out of posting some of the silly stuff I post around here. As if I've found the lost doucheman or Tayopa... Or anything else for that matter. Hell... I could just be another Forrest Fenn who's blowing smoke up all of your ass**. After all... "It is where you find it" and I sure as heck won't be filing any claims to any of my imaginary holes.:laughing7: If anyone want to find any of the things I claim to have found. They can do some serious research as I have not done and get your buns out there and search search search. Good luck. :headbang: I think ya'll seekers will need it:icon_scratch: I had lots of luck myself... :hello:
 

It does seem a little repetitious...But I believe that the platinum is a new angle to Tayopa or the ldm...Heck...I'm still trying to find out what a camillum is...Does anyone in here know what a camillum is??? Maybe one day I will figure it out and get me one...hehehe...I wonder if Quito is a part of the long lost Atlantis? Hmm Who can say for certain??? Oh well... One day I just may try to return to Quito... Or Atlantis... Or Tayopa or the ldm... Or... Or...lol I know... I am such a joker...a camillum is mentioned in the notes in the book de re metallica page 413 and here http://www.jasoncolavito.com/blog/reviewing-gavin-menzies-atlantis-pt-4 where Pliny is referenced...There are a few other places I have found online...But there is no explanation of exactly what a camillum is. But it is used to separate the alutiae from the gold and when the alutiae is melted it is known as white lead... I still wonder if alutiae is platinum... Who knows???
 

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It does seem a little repetitious...But I believe that the platinum is a new angle to Tayopa or the ldm...Heck...I'm still trying to find out what a camillum is...Does anyone in here know what a camillum is??? Maybe one day I will figure it out and get me one...hehehe...I wonder if Quito is a part of the long lost Atlantis? Hmm Who can say for certain??? Oh well... One day I just may try to return to Quito... Or Atlantis... Or Tayopa or the ldm... Or... Or...lol I know... I am such a joker...a camillum is mentioned in the notes in the book de re metallica page 413 and here Reviewing Gavin Menzies' "Atlantis" (Pt. 4) - Jason Colavito where Pliny is referenced...There are a few other places I have found online...But there is no explanation of exactly what a camillum is. But it is used to separate the alutiae from the gold and when the alutiae is melted it is known as white lead... I still wonder if alutiae is platinum... Who knows???

JW,

Believe it's another name for mercury.

Good luck,

Joe Ribaudo
 

I don't believe a camillum is another name for mercury...The passage states that alutiae is separated from gold "In a camillum", so believe it is some type of vessel that the alutiae and gold were placed into...If the passage stated by using camillum...It would be plausible that it might be mercury...Who can figure out the ancients anyhow...I still believe that orichalcum, mentioned in ancient writings, was platinum. But who can say for certain???
 

I don't believe a camillum is another name for mercury...The passage states that alutiae is separated from gold "In a camillum", so believe it is some type of vessel that the alutiae and gold were placed into...If the passage stated by using camillum...It would be plausible that it might be mercury...Who can figure out the ancients anyhow...I still believe that orichalcum, mentioned in ancient writings, was platinum. But who can say for certain???

The " camillum : is the lost in translation word " caminum " , and I believe the alutiae is aluminium .
 

The " camillum : is the lost in translation word " caminum " , and I believe the alutiae is aluminium .

The passage states that alutiae has the same weight as gold...Aluminum has a specific gravity of 2.7 and gold has a specific gravity of 19.32 according to this chart Specific Density Chart - Gold and Metals It could possibly be Tungsten with a specific gravity of 19.6, oh and platinum has a specific gravity of 21.45 according to another search ...So I still believe alutiae to be Platinum... So what is a caminum??? The only description I found about camillum was "a little bench"...But who can say for certain???
 

The passage states that alutiae has the same weight as gold...Aluminum has a specific gravity of 2.7 and gold has a specific gravity of 19.32 according to this chart Specific Density Chart - Gold and Metals It could possibly be Tungsten with a specific gravity of 19.6, oh and platinum has a specific gravity of 21.45 according to another search ...So I still believe alutiae to be Platinum... So what is a caminum??? The only description I found about camillum was "a little bench"...But who can say for certain???

I am not a geologist , but from what i saw in the web , the description " black pebbles variegated with white spots "fits with the lead ore . The density would make more heavy the gold if it was the same proportion with the lead ore , but a pebble of lead ore could be the same weight with a small gold nugget .
 

I am not a geologist , but from what i saw in the web , the description " black pebbles variegated with white spots "fits with the lead ore . The density would make more heavy the gold if it was the same proportion with the lead ore , but a pebble of lead ore could be the same weight with a small gold nugget .

Sadly I am no geologist either Marius...But there are a few platinum metals that could have a black appearance...Iridium being one, which could also explain the brittle nature of the fake gold bars in Virginia and Jamaica...And according to the chart I found here Solids and Metals - Specific Gravities galena has a specific gravity of 7.3 to 7.6... You could be right though Marius... I was assuming that the black pebbles were a form of Platinum metals other than platinum itself and the white spots were possibly any other form of platinum itself. I guess we may never know for certain what alutiae and orichalcum actually was... Oh well... I may have found me a tungsten hole in the wall...:laughing7: I will still keep what little ore I have left to myself and I'll be content in knowing what I actually don't know...:notworthy: Maybe one day I'll use some aqua regia on it one more time... :dontknow: That is when I have me some catalytic converts to leach as well... :tongue3: I just may in up with a couple of grams of Pt one day...:thumbsup:
 

John, go re-read your De Re Metalica on the patio process.That answers many of your questions.

I don't recall reading anything about the patio process in De Re Metallica Don Jose...I always thought that the patio process was something that the Spanish developed in Mexico in the year 1554 according to Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patio_process . Oh well... I still have unanswered questions... Maybe one day they will be answered...
 

I don't recall reading anything about the patio process in De Re Metallica Don Jose...I always thought that the patio process was something that the Spanish developed in Mexico in the year 1554 according to Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patio_process . Oh well... I still have unanswered questions... Maybe one day they will be answered...

John, I'm inclined to think that de re metallica is where I read about the patio process.
Translation from German, to Spanish and then to English, gives cause to several words being hard to nail down.

Rereading it is not something that I would not wish to do. It's a little bit like reading a dictionary mixed with a phone book from another country.

It was worth it the first time though.

#/80{>~
 

I had done a quick search on it earlier PROSPECTORMIKEL on this site De Re Metallica full text & illustrated. Agricola. Hoover. it is mentioned in the notes in book VIII on page 300...So it is quite possible that the patio process was in use prior to the Spanish using it in Mexico...It is almost like the cyanide process being used by ancient alchemists as well...But I could be wrong...It was depicted by a green lion eating a yellow sun, if my memory serves me correctly. Oh...And if you do a search for white lead you are taken to page 440 of book X which gives a pretty close account of what I believe to be platinum being worked from a possible copper nickel deposit... I could be wrong...

After further investigation I must admit I was wrong...The patio process is mentioned in book VII on page 297 in the footnotes...I believe Don Jose was correct...Some of my questions have been answered...And if I am correct on my statement on white lead...Some of your questions may have been answered as well... :)
 

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Yes, that book answered many questions that I had.

Probably the most informative book on the subject.

I had always wondered how the Spanish knew where to prospect for silver, especially here in Arkansas.

The authors were careful not to give up too much information, while educating the intelligent few.

I still don't want to read it again....

#/;0{>~
 

A hearty breakfast of eggs, and Nopalitos with sweet breads and COFFEE, join me ?

As A matter of fact, even general assaying is still done the same way in remote smaller locations, course we now have electronic devices, but the basic assaying is still done the same way.

I was semi famous for driving around in my jeep looking for cow bones to make my cupels.
 

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