Misc data and adventures of a Tayopa treasure hunter

J.A.A. said:
I've been home with a sick 2-1/2 year old all day so I had LOTS of time to go back a read/reread most of the posts here in the Tayopa forum, quite a few of which started 10 years ago (5 years before I even found this site!)....

Mi Pard Oro...!
I didn't realize how much information you had personally attained regarding Tayopa! Prior to having any idea that a certain not-to-be-named mutual amigo of ours (El Tramp, ahem) had found it, were you planning on hunting it down yourself at some point? Did you ever get down to Mexico to seek it out or has Tayopa just been more of a "pet project" done for sake of personal interest and learning? And, if you don't mind me asking, what resources did you use over the years to generate the breadth of knowledge you appear to have on the topic of not just the main cache site, but the entire "Tayopa region"? I can't imagine it's simply all just from the Internet and/or a local library. I'm just curious. I don't think you've mentioned before fully what your background is regarding Tayopa (my apologies if you have and I simply missed it!).

Of course, please only share what you can and are willing to.

Thank you in advance!
Justin

P.S. Pardon all the questions. Like I said, I've had TONS of free time today!
Click to expand...


Justin I am sorry to hear that your 2 1/2 year old is sick, hope that it was just a bug and will pass quickly. It is rough when they are that young.

Next - egads amigo your check is going to have to have a huge bonus in it for that post! :laughing7: Just remember, that check is perfectly fine, so long as youdon't cash it.

Yes I was intending to go hunt for Tayopa, in fact Beth and I had a little business going of locating claims in Yukon and Alaska and selling them at that time, and had gotten to the stage of buying three mules (oops - see now you are making me tell that secret, had Don Jose' believing we had NO experience with mules) and trailer to haul them in, as you can not prospect very well in winter months so it seemed like a great plan to spend winters hunting for the famous Tayopa. Beth speaks Spanish very well so that obstacle was not an issue. Had we been so lucky to find it, I would never sell it however, that would have been a "keeper". Anyway did not have all that much info on it, other than Dobie's excellent version (however flawed) a few topo maps and of course at that time it was legal to bring long guns with you so long as you had a Mexican non-resident hunting license. We had a subscription to a mining type newspaper (called a magazine but was newspaper format) and it had a most interesting article in it, stating that someone had indeed found Tayopa! It even had a photo of a rather tough looking hombre that was not someone I cared to test out, (had no idea that he was a softie at heart, you can not tell from his photos) and we had several dinner-table discussions about whether to even bother trying to look, as it sure sounded like this mean looking guy had found it and owned it.

At that time we also had internet service, a whopping 1200 baud modem and all-text CompuServe, so it was a bigger shock (for me) when I ran across none other than Don Jose online talking about Tayopa. I can not recall if it was on the old LT forum or maybe this one, think it was maybe DUSA? Anyway I was none too friendly with Real de Tayopa at first, as I wanted to know if he was for real or one of the common "foundits" aka 'zoomers" that really has only found something interesting in an aerial photo or satellite image and it seems to fit their ideas. It was another pleasant surprise to learn what a nice person Don Jose really is (don't let him know that of course, he would never forgive me!) and he sold me on the fact that he had found THE Tayopa of legend.

The biggest stumbling block (for me) was that there are several different Tayopas, all dating to different time periods and different areas. He has covered that aspect very well, but until I got that piece of information through the thick cranial bone it simply did not make any sense to me that the Mesa of the Bell Maker could be where it is, and yet Teopira (one of the several Tayopas) is so far away and on a completely different river drainage. If you compare the general locations of Teopira, Tayopa, Dios Padre, the Mesa de Campana you can readily see the confusion it caused me!

Over the years and numerous arguments have become very good friends with Don Jose, to the point that I consider him a best friend. He has entrusted me with rather a lot of confidential information however I am convinced that the only person that is ever going to be able to open the vault at Tayopa is him, so I hope he does plan on sticking around a while because I would love to be watching over his shoulder when he does open it. I was slightly disappointed that we could not hunt for Tayopa but very happy at who did find it, could not have been a better outcome. Of course don't tell Don Jose that either! :tongue3:

I made a short story long there, anyway yes we were planning on hunting Tayopa ourselves, and in fact quite close to the very spot he found it in. Not saying that I would have found it, in fact I believe we were looking at a place (to search) farther north, basically because several silver mines had been found in that area. Had to be a place near the headwaters of the Mayo river anyway. Also had to be within the area where the Opata Indians had been, as they were the main tribe associated with Tayopa although Pima and Apaches as you know are also intimately associated but especially those Opatas as they were contacted by Capt Hurdaide, while the Pimas were hardly known in 1602-4 time period when Tayopa was first discovered.

I have never been to Mexico, much less to Tayopa, although that will hopefully be rectified before too long (hoping anyway) and yes a lot of info was found online, but also via the local libraries! Not really what they had in local libraries of course, but through the interlibrary loan system. I could hardly afford some of the old books to buy them anyway. One that I WISH I could have afforded was the 'Triumphs of our Holy Faith' or a name similar to that, written by a Jesuit as a history of their achievements in Mexico, and unfortunately the only one we could locate to even borrow was entirely in colonial Spanish so was rather a problem to read. <for me!> I think it is now online and there is supposed to be an English translation available too. Also have a collection of old treasure mags, unfortunately lost many in a fire which have not been possible to replace, and of course among our members here that kind of source materials are the worst imaginable, but I don't dismiss them out of hand. Anyway I wish we had as much available thirty years ago as we have now online, back then you had a much harder time researching things. Just think if you wanted to find a book that has a few chapters on Tayopa, but did not know any title or author, without an internet to help find those pieces of information, to get an idea.

One other tidbit and I will shut up already but it was also confusing for me for a long time, but both the Franciscans and Jesuits were involved with Tayopa. As I understand it the first padres working at Tayopa were not Jesuits but Franciscans, and for some reason they were only there a very short time (two years?) before being replaced by Jesuits, and of course you well know about their expulsion. I do not know why the Franciscans left but perhaps because the Jesuits were a newly arrived Order and were being granted areas to work in, and that area just happened to be in their new 'domain'? That is a guess.

Thank you for those very kind words Justin and Don Jose' however undeserved. IMHO no one knows more about Tayopa than Don Jose', really he is a 'living source book' on it so I hope he will finish that book.

:coffee2::coffee2::coffee2:
 

Hogwash.

Talk, talk, talk.........what page are you up to? :whip2:


:coffee2:
 

Amigo and Oro,:coffee2: What was the involvement of the Yaqui and Tayopa. NP:cat:
 

NP, so far as I know, effectively none. I lived with them for 5 years and never once was it brought up, although they were quite free with their beliefs and religion. It is not in Yaqui tterritory.for one thing.

Most Indians were not prone to go to war for something that happened in another tribes territtory.

The Apaches were different, they considered NW Mexico their private foraging gorund - loot.

Incidentally, the teritory was claimed by the Guayajiros, they were the slave labor..
 

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Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp said:
NP, so far as I know, effectively none. I lived with them for 5 years and never once was it brought up, although they were quite free with their beliefs and religion. It is not in Yaqui tterritory.for one thing.

Most Indians were not prone to go to war for something that happened in another tribes territtory.

The Apaches were different, they considered NW Mexico thier private foraging gorund - loot.

Incidentally, the teritory was claimed by the Guayajiros, they were the slave labor..
Click to expand...
Amigo, I agree with what you are saying,but ,you are the only one that would know why I am asking this, Its very important,np:cat:
 

Don Jose

First enjoy a fresh :coffee2:

I believe the only way to read somebody the deleted posts is this :
Write them again ( edited or not ) one by one at the last page . After go one by one of your previous posts before the deleted posts , edit them and write : " To read my deleted post after the post #? , go to the page #? and read the post #? . 8-)

Good luck in your new project .
 

That stinking bylaw wording needs to be corrected by the corporate officials.

Or we will have lost the soul of every post that we share with our brothers and sisters, relating to the history that we make known to one another.

It sucks the life from every post.
This will become a ghost town where every post shall become just another uprooted tumbleweed passing our windows.
Unnoticed and lost to the untrained eyes of every reader.

"Hump! I wonder what that meant"? ?

#/;0(~(c)

Coffee, anyone?
 

Amigo.

I fly fish. I tie my own flies.
All designed to catch bass.

The joy and contentment comes from every perfect cast, using the exact fly, then releasing them back into the water.

No net. No watch. No phone.
No fish stories.

Same rules for anyone that goes with me.

If I had to fish for a living, I would starve.
If I had to fish to keep from starving, I would live.

If a man with a badge asks me for a license, I ask him for a probable cause, as I have no place to keep any fish.

There is much between the lines to be read.

#/;0)~ (c)

The only problem is in someone else's rules....

Coffee's ready...
 

Amigo's:coffee2::coffee2::coffee2: I feel that there's a hot and gloomy day coming to this town, seems all the ore in the mines is vanishing,completely sucked dry, soon nothing but old dried up boards and memories,but, good ones we had none the less.we are all now a part of faded treasure story history,are we creating our own ghost town,If so lets call it, ( TREASURE TOWN ), NP:cat:
 

Gracias Marius, but to wade through 193 pages ??? :coffee2::coffee2: example
---


It was back in the winter of 1864 - 9? can't remember dates too clearly lately (snicker but I was following up a story on a lost jesuit mine when a local mentioned that there was copper near by.


So I saddled up my mule, and off I went. It was a two day journey, and I had two cold, very high rivers to cross.. The first night I spent in an Indian's small hut, since it was drizzling, and I was grateful to have a dry place to sleep instead of under a small piece of tarp.


I remember as I rode up to his isolated little hut, he came to the door and told me "Bienvenido senor, mi casa es suyo" "Welcome sir, my house is yours.


After unsaddling and seeing to my mules comfort and dinner, I returned to his hut. I found him, his wife, and three lil kiddies inside. It was a single room with a small open fire on one side to cook with. He had a small wobbly wooden, home made, table and three similar chairs. All cooking utensils were home made from wood or clay.. They slept on the floor with one blanket.


As I was laying out my blankets, his lil wife came to me and shyly told me that dinner was ready. I went to the table to find two tortillas, a few beans and a glass of warm sugar cane juice. Hmm, as I was folding the tortilla, I noticed the three little kiddies huddled in the corner, watching me very intently and anxiously?


I asked my host why they weren't eating.? He rather matter of fact said that his crop of corn had failed, and that was all they had to eat, this and his sugar cane juice.


Sheesh, for some reason my appetite just disappeared, so I opened my saddle bags and brought out my store of day old Tortillas, dried meat, some spices, and Coffee. So we had a nice dinner and put the kiddies to sleep with full tummies.


His wife almost cried over the coffee, she said that she hadn't tasted any in over a year, so naturally I left my coffee with her. I also left the #5 bag of hard candy which I always carried for the isolated ranch kiddies that I met.


To me it wasn't a big thing, but to them it was , since the head of the family probably only made one or two trips a year and their candy was low priority.


The next day was clear and sunny, so I left my wonderful hosts, who were willing to share whatever they had with a stranger. I also left most of my trail money with them and continued on my way


As for getting a mule to cross two swift rivers, with icy water chest high, sigh, that is for another day. However, after crossing I cleaned up, shaved and made myself presentable.


The trail wound up and up until it broke out into a valley with the trail running up the middle with houses on both sides
Since I had an interested and critical audience, I sat straight in the saddle with the most dignified manner that I could think of, and continued. The trail passed over a small rock wall that had collapsed. As my mule reached this spot, she gave a little jump and slid completely out from under the saddle leaving me still sitting in the saddle on top of the remains of the wall...


My audience broke out in a roar , laughing and yelling, with tears runing down their faces, sheesh talk about embarrassing. Naturally, all that I could do was to shrug my shoulders and grin. They loved it, and they are all still my friends to this day, as you all are
 

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