Million ounces <--- Say what????

ConceptualizedNetherlandr said:
The concept of ~10^6 ounces is not just another clue. It is the entire basis for LDM being worthwhile to find. Otherwise everyone is just out looking for another has-been played out tiny hole. Without THAT supposed treasure, what is all the fuss about?
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Hmm - so if Waltz exaggerated by a factor of say, ten, and there is only some 100,000 ounces of gold remaining IN SIGHT in the mine, then it is to be considered another "empty hole? Not sure I can understand your reasoning there amigo. Suppose Waltz was exaggerating by a factor of 100 - and only some 10,000 ounces of gold rather than a million ounces remains in sight - that much gold is an "empty hole"? ???
 

Oroblanco said:
Hmm - so if Waltz exaggerated by a factor of say, ten, and there is only some 100,000 ounces of gold remaining IN SIGHT in the mine, then it is to be considered another "empty hole? Not sure I can understand your reasoning there amigo. Suppose Waltz was exaggerating by a factor of 100 - and only some 10,000 ounces of gold rather than a million ounces remains in sight - that much gold is an "empty hole"? ???
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You tell us about that empty hole - what hole? I make no claims as to holes, just investigate what is proffered.

In order to have a proper treasure hunt there first needs to be an actual treasure.

Go ahead and be specific about what treasure there is, and do provide the source/back up information.

So far even the lamest proffers do not pan out, perhaps you have been hiding something from us?
 

ConceptualizedNetherlandr said:
You tell us about that empty hole - what hole? I make no claims as to holes, just investigate what is proffered.

In order to have a proper treasure hunt there first needs to be an actual treasure.

Go ahead and be specific about what treasure there is, and do provide the source/back up information.

So far even the lamest proffers do not pan out, perhaps you have been hiding something from us?
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Amigo it was your own statement:
The concept of ~10^6 ounces is not just another clue. It is the entire basis for LDM being worthwhile to find. Otherwise everyone is just out looking for another has-been played out tiny hole. Without THAT supposed treasure, what is all the fuss about?
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I was trying to understand YOUR reasoning. Good luck and good hunting to you, I won't bother you further.
Oroblanco
 

Each person who researches a "treasure" must follow story back to its origins far enough to find what is acceptable truth for that individual. It reasons if what you chase are non truths the treasure will be equivalent. Lacking an ore sample and assay what has been claimed is subject to question. Did a man have access to decent or high grade ore and keep its source under wraps? I believe more than one has. Intrigue hard to bankroll in search of something without clear truthful evidence yet it happens. Should it?
Sure would be different with a proven ore sample. Had the old timer more ore squirreled,again believable to me if it is accepted he had ore at his disposal, then there may be treasure in the form of where it originated and any he did not reclaim but had cached away from his source. Kind of insurance should previous access be denied for any reason. Each individual needs to run info through a truth test. Results vary.
 

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Concept: cool limeade ? You posted --> So then you agree that no likely hood of any treasure exists for LDM, right?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\

Oro, as usual, answered quite correctly, and elegantly. "NO".


The best that one can say in general is "likely it is merely a reconstruction of a popular folk lore."

In the case of the LDM, until far better methods of using newer satellite scanning systems etc, we cannot say with any probability that it exists or not..

One might say that we are in the very early 1900's developing metal detectors stage in looking.

"Nadie ha vista el Sol de Manana" Old Mayan saying the Lacadon Indians in the Yucatan jungle taught me --

"No-one has seen tomorrows Sun"



Don Jose de La Mancha
 

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Don Jose

When you will finished to write your book of Tayopa and turn your interest on the LDM discovery , these " better methods of using newer satellite scanning systems etc " will be invented . :laughing7: :occasion14:
 

Gracias Marius, One must remember that he said that his vein outcropped further down in the canyon. This will make it far easier to locate.

In the mean while, anyone looking for the LDM would do well to study the latest methods of GEOCHEMICAL prospecting.

One merely starts at the final junction of the Arroyos in the suspected area then works his / her way back up to te source.

Don Jose de La Mancha
 

Well, spell it out. What are we looking for? What is at the end of the supposed LDM trail?

I can understand that when a manifested ship goes down we are looking for what was manifested. But what is this?
 

ConceptualizedNetherlandr said:
This just gets better and betterer all the time :D
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Amigo the Lost Dutchman gold mine is like all treasure hunting - it is not a sure thing. If you want a sure thing, try the local racetrack. If you are really interested in the LDM, why not read a book on it instead of trusting to what some stranger on the internet says?
 

Oroblanco said:
Amigo the Lost Dutchman gold mine is like all treasure hunting - it is not a sure thing. If you want a sure thing, try the local racetrack. If you are really interested in the LDM, why not read a book on it instead of trusting to what some stranger on the internet says?
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All my new strange friends on the internet have already done this for me. You are my experts. You all seem to be saying that despite long hard efforts you have not been able to unearth convincing evidence that the supposed LDM exists in the first place. I trust you. :D
 

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ConceptualizedNetherlandr said:
All my new strange friends on the internet have already done this for me. You are my experts. You all seem to be saying that despite long hard efforts you have not been able to unearth convincing evidence that the supposed LDM exists in the first place. I trust you. :D
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Hmm - first you impress me by using geology in your search for a lost mine, then you disappoint me by refusing to read books and thus research the matter for yourself.


Why should you trust anyone on an internet forum, whom you have never met? There have been several members here whom have deliberately posted misleading and false information, and even admitted to trying to DISCOURAGE anyone from looking for the LDM because they do not want the competition. I tend to take a person as truthful until they give me reason not to, however in treasure hunting you will find people being un-truthful for their own reasons. Some will even send you off on a wild goose chase to an area where they know there is nothing of any value, so they can laugh about it.


As to your conclusions - does it make sense to you, that if there were no gold mine to find, why then would the people who knew Waltz best, themselves go off into a somewhat dangerous area (especially dangerous to the inexperienced) to search for it? Among the people of Florence, prior to Waltz's last days, it was "common knowledge" that Waltz had a rich gold mine, it was no big secret. Several witnesses saw Waltz sell a burro load of very rich gold ore in Tucson, and attempted to trail him back to the mine, unsuccessfully. Waltz's last friends Julia Thomas, Reiney Petrasch (and Reiney's brother and father later enlisted) and Dick Holmes all went looking for the mine. If there was no truth to it, does it not make sense that these people would have known that, and NOT spent their time and money hunting for it?


Then there is (or was) the gold in the candle box. The match box made from a piece of that ore, which photo has been in circulation for some time - this ore is not exactly like any gold ore from a known source, and yes plenty of people have argued that point with me but I stick by it. Where did that gold come from - a stash of stolen gold bar, or stolen ore from the Vulture mine? Waltz never worked for the Vulture mine so had no access to the mine, and the ore does not match ore from the Vulture either.


If these are not solid enough evidence for you, then by all means do not spend your time or money searching for it. Many thousands have searched for the LDM unsuccessfully. To some of us, it is not all about the money value anyway, but clearly to you it is all about the monetary return, so I would suggest another pastime for you; perhaps ordinary gold prospecting, buy a claim somewhere and you can pretty much guarantee that you will be able to mine some gold every time you go work there. Treasure hunting is not for everyone, though I think everyone ought to try it at least once in their life, it is for the experiences, not for the vast fortunes nor any certainty of reaping them. If you are so easily discouraged, you will not be successful at treasure hunting for in all treasure hunting you will have setbacks and disappointments.


I would strongly suggest to do some reading up on the LDM if you really are interested, and not to trust what some stranger, who may be having a great laugh at your expense, over the internet - for anything of substantial information.


Good luck and good hunting to you all I hope you find the treasures that you seek.
Oroblanco
 

i am the horse said:
Don't know why ya even waste your time typing to a nonbeliever.
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ConceptualizedNetherlandr had stated that he is a newbie, and had a number of questions; I was attempting to help answer some of them as I did not see any others doing it.
Oroblanco
 

LOL @ nonbeliever :D

And now I disappoint :(

I suppose the entire internet is having a good chuckle at me pointing out that we don't see much evidence.

Even "if" there "was" LDM, we don't know it was much of anything (or anything left). If it was, JW sure wasn't so smart about things.

That is how it looks to me so far.

I have an open mind.
 

i am the horse said:
Well the local racetrack did not pan out for me. Guess I should of went with the favorite in the derby.

But getting back to the LDM. The only thing that doesn't make sense to me is the fact that jw said the vein protruded into the valley below. So if it was a spanish mine like he stated. Wouldn't they of chipped away all the exposed gold out in the open before starting a shaft? I mean why put yourself in harms way if you could be out in the open picking away at your leisure drinking a brew without the worry of a shaft caving in on ya?. I
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Dang amigo sorry to hear about the racetrack. I must have been misinformed.

Your logic is sound - and is a point against the story of the mine being an old Spanish mine. I am convinced that the Ludy brothers lost mine story got "blended" into the Dutchman,perhaps by Waltz himself. Do you have a copy of Barry Storm's first book, On the Trail of the Lost Dutchman? There is a chapter on the Ludy brothers mine which he calls mistakenly, "Jacobs and Ludy" in reality it was two Ludy brothers, or possibly cousins no way to know for sure as their enlistment papers have quite an age difference.

The alternate version of the LDM comes from the Pioneer Interviews, and I am convinced it is the true and correct one. As far as I know no book has ever been done on it, the info is too sparse to fill a book anyway but Tom Kollenborn did an article on it which is online, have the link here somewhere or just look up the Kollenborn Chronicles in the older articles.

Good luck and good hunting amigos I hope you find the treasures that you seek.
Oroblanco
 

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