SHHHHH !
Gotta Respect that some of these Rangers Believe in Freedom.
Gotta Respect that some of these Rangers Believe in Freedom.
(?) MD ing in the Pa. game lands
- Thread starter greywolf
- Start date
handy
Full Member
might not apply here but
Community reacts to report on Game Commission officer
By HEATHER LESKANIC
Rodney Bimber has been accused of being too aggressive in law enforcement.
CLARION - A Pennsylvania Game Commission officer who has been accused of being too aggressive in law enforcement is again making news after being the subject of a Pittsburgh television station's investigation.
Clarion attorney Blair Hindman estimated he may have handled 30 or so cases in Clarion County over the last year that were filed by conservation officer Rodney Bimber.
Hindman said his success rate has been above 90 percent in having the charges either dropped by prosecutors or his clients found not guilty.
He said a fair number of the cases "are not game related."
"That's the main problem," Hindman said. "He's not a police officer."
He said he has heard from numerous individuals, including other attorneys and those in law enforcement, since the WTAE-TV4 report ran Feb. 28.
"We want (Bimber) to obey the law," Hindman said. "That seems to be the consensus."
Calls seeking comment from Bimber at the regional game commission office in Franklin were forwarded to spokesman Jerry Feaser in Harrisburg.
Feaser said the report did not represent the full story, but did not immediately provide further explanation.
The report included statements from Feaser including that Bimber, who was named officer of the year by the organization in 2005, is not abusing his authority.
"If the local judges and the district attorney don't want to protect state game lands, it doesn't mean that the game commission will abdicate its role and responsibility to do that," he told WTAE reporter Paul Van Osdol.
Horseback riders have been cited repeatedly by Bimber and other game officers for riding on a narrow strip of state game lands.
Clarion County District Attorney Mark Aaron said he dropped charges against 34 people who were cited in October.
"I personally feel very harassed by this organization and unjustly," trail rider Brenda Biedrycki said in the WTAE report.
Aaron said he has complained to top game commission officials.
"I wish the game commission would take a serious look at what's going on here in Clarion County with officer Rod Bimber and the enforcement of game law here," Aaron said.
Several years ago, the game commission requested a local district judge be removed from hearing game law cases.
Clarion County President Judge James Arner declined the commission's request that District Judge Duane Quinn be removed due to alleged bias.
Commission officials said it was an unusual request prompted by concerns about lower prosecution rates while Quinn was serving in the Paint Township court as well as alleged comments regarding the game commission during Quinn's November 2003 election campaign.
Arner said he decided against removing Quinn from the cases because he found the parties differed on the facts and that "disputes of this nature are more appropriately dealt with through evidentiary hearings and appeals."
Hindman said the majority of individuals he's represented over the years "are honorable people" and feel they are being harassed by Bimber's office.
"That's why they fight these citations," said the attorney. "I don't think the game commission really cares. They don't take honest, law-abiding citizen complaints seriously."
A case that received significant attention a couple years ago involved five Clarion University students who were swimming in the Clarion River when a game commission officer showed up and ordered them to get out.
They were then detained for nearly an hour until a state police officer showed up.
"We thought there was no way someone can tell us we cannot put our clothes on, that five girls can sit there in their bra and underwear with a man standing there with a flashlight telling us, no, you can't get dressed," former Clarion student Jessica Kretz said.
Bimber said he suspected the students of underage drinking.
Hindman said Bimber had no right to detain them.
"He held them even though these weren't game lands," he said. "This wasn't any kind of game investigation."
The charges were dismissed in that case.
Van Osdol asked Bimber about the incident.
"Get the whole story," Bimber told him. "You're the reporter, you figure it out."
Hindman said out of all the cases he's defended, "no one's ever poached a deer."
Bimber has been the subject of internal investigations, according to WTAE, but the game commission says he has not been cited for any wrongdoing.
Van Osdol asked Bimber about Aaron's criticism of his actions.
"What's your response to him?" Van Osdol asked.
"I have no response," said Bimber.
Aaron said he is just trying to be reasonable.
Gov. Ed Rendell was also interviewed for the television report, saying "it's a fine line between what's effective enforcement and what's overly aggressive enforcement."
"We should make sure that line is not crossed," he said.
Hindman said he is hopeful for change through the legislature as the game commission is an independent agency.
Community reacts to report on Game Commission officer
By HEATHER LESKANIC
Rodney Bimber has been accused of being too aggressive in law enforcement.
CLARION - A Pennsylvania Game Commission officer who has been accused of being too aggressive in law enforcement is again making news after being the subject of a Pittsburgh television station's investigation.
Clarion attorney Blair Hindman estimated he may have handled 30 or so cases in Clarion County over the last year that were filed by conservation officer Rodney Bimber.
Hindman said his success rate has been above 90 percent in having the charges either dropped by prosecutors or his clients found not guilty.
He said a fair number of the cases "are not game related."
"That's the main problem," Hindman said. "He's not a police officer."
He said he has heard from numerous individuals, including other attorneys and those in law enforcement, since the WTAE-TV4 report ran Feb. 28.
"We want (Bimber) to obey the law," Hindman said. "That seems to be the consensus."
Calls seeking comment from Bimber at the regional game commission office in Franklin were forwarded to spokesman Jerry Feaser in Harrisburg.
Feaser said the report did not represent the full story, but did not immediately provide further explanation.
The report included statements from Feaser including that Bimber, who was named officer of the year by the organization in 2005, is not abusing his authority.
"If the local judges and the district attorney don't want to protect state game lands, it doesn't mean that the game commission will abdicate its role and responsibility to do that," he told WTAE reporter Paul Van Osdol.
Horseback riders have been cited repeatedly by Bimber and other game officers for riding on a narrow strip of state game lands.
Clarion County District Attorney Mark Aaron said he dropped charges against 34 people who were cited in October.
"I personally feel very harassed by this organization and unjustly," trail rider Brenda Biedrycki said in the WTAE report.
Aaron said he has complained to top game commission officials.
"I wish the game commission would take a serious look at what's going on here in Clarion County with officer Rod Bimber and the enforcement of game law here," Aaron said.
Several years ago, the game commission requested a local district judge be removed from hearing game law cases.
Clarion County President Judge James Arner declined the commission's request that District Judge Duane Quinn be removed due to alleged bias.
Commission officials said it was an unusual request prompted by concerns about lower prosecution rates while Quinn was serving in the Paint Township court as well as alleged comments regarding the game commission during Quinn's November 2003 election campaign.
Arner said he decided against removing Quinn from the cases because he found the parties differed on the facts and that "disputes of this nature are more appropriately dealt with through evidentiary hearings and appeals."
Hindman said the majority of individuals he's represented over the years "are honorable people" and feel they are being harassed by Bimber's office.
"That's why they fight these citations," said the attorney. "I don't think the game commission really cares. They don't take honest, law-abiding citizen complaints seriously."
A case that received significant attention a couple years ago involved five Clarion University students who were swimming in the Clarion River when a game commission officer showed up and ordered them to get out.
They were then detained for nearly an hour until a state police officer showed up.
"We thought there was no way someone can tell us we cannot put our clothes on, that five girls can sit there in their bra and underwear with a man standing there with a flashlight telling us, no, you can't get dressed," former Clarion student Jessica Kretz said.
Bimber said he suspected the students of underage drinking.
Hindman said Bimber had no right to detain them.
"He held them even though these weren't game lands," he said. "This wasn't any kind of game investigation."
The charges were dismissed in that case.
Van Osdol asked Bimber about the incident.
"Get the whole story," Bimber told him. "You're the reporter, you figure it out."
Hindman said out of all the cases he's defended, "no one's ever poached a deer."
Bimber has been the subject of internal investigations, according to WTAE, but the game commission says he has not been cited for any wrongdoing.
Van Osdol asked Bimber about Aaron's criticism of his actions.
"What's your response to him?" Van Osdol asked.
"I have no response," said Bimber.
Aaron said he is just trying to be reasonable.
Gov. Ed Rendell was also interviewed for the television report, saying "it's a fine line between what's effective enforcement and what's overly aggressive enforcement."
"We should make sure that line is not crossed," he said.
Hindman said he is hopeful for change through the legislature as the game commission is an independent agency.
tokenhead
Hero Member
i've lived in PA. for 50yrs.now&as long as i can remember NOTHING could be removed from state lands,parks game lands.my dad was with the PA.Fish commision for 13yrs.&he told me this,even prior to his service with the PA.FC.,but MD is done all the time at PRESQUE ISLE state park but only on the beachs as far as i know,jusi my 2cents!
girardpaguy
Sr. Member
I would just like to add my thoughts to this topic if i may,
I am a hunter (deer that is) and the game lands that i hunt on is over 3,000 acres. Yes, i have been lost once or twice. I can understand the game commission point of view, Not removing anything from the game lands. If they didn't have this rule then I'm sure you would have ppl in there cutting trees for the wood or even taking downed trees for wood, creating ruts in the land all on the premise that "it is public land".
Now, MDing is a FAR cry from tree removal ( i used tree removal as an example) and i see no problem with MDing in the game lands. My thoughts here may go against what a lot of you believe but They can't be everywhere on the 3,000 acre plot of land all at once and I'm not removing trees or disturbing the land by making ruts hauling trees from the woods.
Just my thoughts.
I am a hunter (deer that is) and the game lands that i hunt on is over 3,000 acres. Yes, i have been lost once or twice. I can understand the game commission point of view, Not removing anything from the game lands. If they didn't have this rule then I'm sure you would have ppl in there cutting trees for the wood or even taking downed trees for wood, creating ruts in the land all on the premise that "it is public land".
Now, MDing is a FAR cry from tree removal ( i used tree removal as an example) and i see no problem with MDing in the game lands. My thoughts here may go against what a lot of you believe but They can't be everywhere on the 3,000 acre plot of land all at once and I'm not removing trees or disturbing the land by making ruts hauling trees from the woods.
Just my thoughts.
urbss
Full Member
girardpaguy said:I would just like to add my thoughts to this topic if i may,
I am a hunter (deer that is) and the game lands that i hunt on is over 3,000 acres. Yes, i have been lost once or twice. I can understand the game commission point of view, Not removing anything from the game lands. If they didn't have this rule then I'm sure you would have ppl in there cutting trees for the wood or even taking downed trees for wood, creating ruts in the land all on the premise that "it is public land".
Now, MDing is a FAR cry from tree removal ( i used tree removal as an example) and i see no problem with MDing in the game lands. My thoughts here may go against what a lot of you believe but They can't be everywhere on the 3,000 acre plot of land all at once and I'm not removing trees or disturbing the land by making ruts hauling trees from the woods.
Just my thoughts.
Yeah, removing trees is a far cry from MDing. But, this is the sort of "no-common-sense" approach to law making that makes it difficult for everyone.
By using this same logic we should not be allowed to remove any coins from parks because then other people might get the idea that they can take home the park benches.
deepskyal
Bronze Member
- Joined
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- Location
- Natrona Heights, Pa.
- Detector(s) used
- White's Coinmaster 6000 Di Series 3, Minelab Eq 600
- Primary Interest:
- Metal Detecting
Some laws are just totally ridiculous.
We have very vague definitions in this hobby when it comes to the don't disturb the lawn, don't take anything historically significant...and on and on...
Yes, it is twisted logic.
Get a traffic ticket...not only do they write you up for not having your registration signed, but also for driving the vehicle without signed registration, and somewhere in there, for good measure, they'll write you a third ticket for something you never heard of. How specific they can be be...when they want to be. Three tickets for one infraction!
No archie is going to wander aimlessly through our state forests, hoping to stumble across some unrecorded, unknown, long lost lumbering camp or mining town that's disintegrated into oblivion. Pennsylvania forests have a way of regenerating and taking everything with it.
The only time you'll see an archie somewhere like that is when they plan on developing the area with roads or shopping malls. Then they only want to make sure your not disturbing some lost Indian burial mound or village.
Pennsylvania can define the laws of state games lands a lot better than they do,. They can put in inclusions and prohibitions...just like any other laws they have that are very specific...such as traffic tickets.
The commission, like any other government entity, is just a bunch of bloated, overpaid, bureaucrats that have no foresight. They just want to be greedy and controlling...."this land is mine and I'll do what I want" attitude.
Maybe since the game commission wants exclusive rights to "their" land, hunters shouldn't be allowed on public lands paid by us taxpayers. That's fair.
I know hunters pay taxes too, but I don't care. I want my piece of the pie. If you got your private lands...I want mine too. And I pay a whole lot more taxes than what a hunting license costs. And I'm not talking just owning my own home...I'm talking thousands of acres...I want my own personal play area where I can detect my heart out.
How's that for logic!
Seriously, how many hundreds of thousands or millions of acres are off limits to me? I can't swing a metal detector, one slow foot at a time? How much damage can that do? How much ground could I possibly cover in a lifetime?
At one time...no one owned Pennsylvania's woods. The land used by hunters was given to them...they didn't buy it. The license you buy pays for the management of it to maintain a healthy wildlife population. You're not paying on a mortgage.
Like anything else, hunting had to be regulated. Assign them specific areas to hunt, specific times to hunt, and make them pay for it. So now Th'ers are banned from activities because they think they own it.
What crap!!!
If they don't want me to detect state game lands...they better build a big fence around them and make sure they lock the back door. That's where I'll be entering.
There's something wrong with the law when you can take what is public and with a draw of a pen, draw circles and arrows and paragraphs, then say this is now only for a certain population to use. I don't agree with it and never will and I certainly am not going to abide by it. I think that's called civil disobedience.
How ridiculous was that battle between the Game Commission and the Turnpike Commission over land rights and usage when they wanted to build more turnpike through an area that was gamelands. They went to court! Two Pennsylvania commissions suing each other!
I don't have much faith in government anymore, especially when it comes down to those silly laws that just strangle us from flying kites and metal detecting. And I certainly don't have the tolerance for it any more. You cannot strip my rights away with a swipe of a pen. That paper and ink mean nothing to me....I was born with rights and I'll die with rights. And by golly...I'll fight for my rights.
How's that saying go? "They can take my gun when they pry it from my dead, bloody hands"?
"I'm sorry son, we aren't allowed to fly kites anymore. It's illegal now."
How sad......and even sadder we let it happen. Must have been a good TV show on that night they voted to ban kite flying in a park so nobody showed up to stop it.
I know this is getting long but I want to tell you one more little story.
I was involved in community politics and organizing for quite a few years. I even spent my own money fighting unjust laws in court they were trying to pass.
Those meetings, for years as they developed and connived their seedy little plans, maybe a half dozen people went to those meetings. The mayor fought hard against the plans of those trying to ruin our community...and ultimately failed with a veto attempt to overrule the laws.
It cost every resident in the community thousands of dollars in legal fees, thousands more in fees and construction costs, and now have a huge monthly fee to pay for user services they never had before. Taxes began to skyrocket.
The ONLY time we had a standing room only meeting was when they decided to cut a discount out they had offered to homeowners which amounted to a few hundred dollars in savings. A drop in the bucket compared to the thousands they ultimately paid.
Then...it was only because of us handful that attended the meeting getting the word out to everyone what was going on.
IF...IF people had attended the meetings..they would have known the lies we caught them in, they would have witnessed first hand the deceit, they would have seen our documentations and proof that everything the local government was doing was illegal. But they chose to be ignorant and closed their eyes.
It's peoples apathy that allowed this and the government counts on this. You can apply this to any of the laws that get passed that affect our basic rights as people of this country and this state.
No one wants to be bothered to get involved. You reap what you sow.
I frankly got fed up with everyones apathy. I no longer want to fight for someone that's going to sit at home and watch TV while I spend my time and money trying to preserve our way of living.
Granted, no one knew back in the day how controlling and exclusive the Game commission would become. They snuck through rules and regulations without public knowledge. Are we to accept that? ( Remember the Boston Tea Party?) And even then...where was it published once it was passed to inform us nonhunters of the rules we can't do this or that. And why would even the average citizen think there would be such an absurd law or give it a second thought that maybe picking up spent rifle shells could land them in jail with fines? After all, aren't we the average citizen?
They say ignorance of the law is not an excuse. Show me one person that knows every single law by heart. I could probably fill my house with all the laws there are. And if that's the case, why aren't they teaching us every law in school so we know not to detect in gamelands?
I've seen enough gameland signs that welcome hunters to enjoy it and give them some rules to abide by. I don't see a "NO METAL DETECTING" sign.
Pennsylvania was a public land...until they created a Commission....a simple stroke of a pen took our rights away. I don't disagree you have to have some laws to keep from raping and destroying our pristine forests...I DO disagree with the absurd.
Al
We have very vague definitions in this hobby when it comes to the don't disturb the lawn, don't take anything historically significant...and on and on...
Yes, it is twisted logic.
Get a traffic ticket...not only do they write you up for not having your registration signed, but also for driving the vehicle without signed registration, and somewhere in there, for good measure, they'll write you a third ticket for something you never heard of. How specific they can be be...when they want to be. Three tickets for one infraction!
No archie is going to wander aimlessly through our state forests, hoping to stumble across some unrecorded, unknown, long lost lumbering camp or mining town that's disintegrated into oblivion. Pennsylvania forests have a way of regenerating and taking everything with it.
The only time you'll see an archie somewhere like that is when they plan on developing the area with roads or shopping malls. Then they only want to make sure your not disturbing some lost Indian burial mound or village.
Pennsylvania can define the laws of state games lands a lot better than they do,. They can put in inclusions and prohibitions...just like any other laws they have that are very specific...such as traffic tickets.
The commission, like any other government entity, is just a bunch of bloated, overpaid, bureaucrats that have no foresight. They just want to be greedy and controlling...."this land is mine and I'll do what I want" attitude.
Maybe since the game commission wants exclusive rights to "their" land, hunters shouldn't be allowed on public lands paid by us taxpayers. That's fair.
I know hunters pay taxes too, but I don't care. I want my piece of the pie. If you got your private lands...I want mine too. And I pay a whole lot more taxes than what a hunting license costs. And I'm not talking just owning my own home...I'm talking thousands of acres...I want my own personal play area where I can detect my heart out.
How's that for logic!
Seriously, how many hundreds of thousands or millions of acres are off limits to me? I can't swing a metal detector, one slow foot at a time? How much damage can that do? How much ground could I possibly cover in a lifetime?
At one time...no one owned Pennsylvania's woods. The land used by hunters was given to them...they didn't buy it. The license you buy pays for the management of it to maintain a healthy wildlife population. You're not paying on a mortgage.
Like anything else, hunting had to be regulated. Assign them specific areas to hunt, specific times to hunt, and make them pay for it. So now Th'ers are banned from activities because they think they own it.
What crap!!!
If they don't want me to detect state game lands...they better build a big fence around them and make sure they lock the back door. That's where I'll be entering.
There's something wrong with the law when you can take what is public and with a draw of a pen, draw circles and arrows and paragraphs, then say this is now only for a certain population to use. I don't agree with it and never will and I certainly am not going to abide by it. I think that's called civil disobedience.
How ridiculous was that battle between the Game Commission and the Turnpike Commission over land rights and usage when they wanted to build more turnpike through an area that was gamelands. They went to court! Two Pennsylvania commissions suing each other!
I don't have much faith in government anymore, especially when it comes down to those silly laws that just strangle us from flying kites and metal detecting. And I certainly don't have the tolerance for it any more. You cannot strip my rights away with a swipe of a pen. That paper and ink mean nothing to me....I was born with rights and I'll die with rights. And by golly...I'll fight for my rights.
How's that saying go? "They can take my gun when they pry it from my dead, bloody hands"?
"I'm sorry son, we aren't allowed to fly kites anymore. It's illegal now."
How sad......and even sadder we let it happen. Must have been a good TV show on that night they voted to ban kite flying in a park so nobody showed up to stop it.
I know this is getting long but I want to tell you one more little story.
I was involved in community politics and organizing for quite a few years. I even spent my own money fighting unjust laws in court they were trying to pass.
Those meetings, for years as they developed and connived their seedy little plans, maybe a half dozen people went to those meetings. The mayor fought hard against the plans of those trying to ruin our community...and ultimately failed with a veto attempt to overrule the laws.
It cost every resident in the community thousands of dollars in legal fees, thousands more in fees and construction costs, and now have a huge monthly fee to pay for user services they never had before. Taxes began to skyrocket.
The ONLY time we had a standing room only meeting was when they decided to cut a discount out they had offered to homeowners which amounted to a few hundred dollars in savings. A drop in the bucket compared to the thousands they ultimately paid.
Then...it was only because of us handful that attended the meeting getting the word out to everyone what was going on.
IF...IF people had attended the meetings..they would have known the lies we caught them in, they would have witnessed first hand the deceit, they would have seen our documentations and proof that everything the local government was doing was illegal. But they chose to be ignorant and closed their eyes.
It's peoples apathy that allowed this and the government counts on this. You can apply this to any of the laws that get passed that affect our basic rights as people of this country and this state.
No one wants to be bothered to get involved. You reap what you sow.
I frankly got fed up with everyones apathy. I no longer want to fight for someone that's going to sit at home and watch TV while I spend my time and money trying to preserve our way of living.
Granted, no one knew back in the day how controlling and exclusive the Game commission would become. They snuck through rules and regulations without public knowledge. Are we to accept that? ( Remember the Boston Tea Party?) And even then...where was it published once it was passed to inform us nonhunters of the rules we can't do this or that. And why would even the average citizen think there would be such an absurd law or give it a second thought that maybe picking up spent rifle shells could land them in jail with fines? After all, aren't we the average citizen?
They say ignorance of the law is not an excuse. Show me one person that knows every single law by heart. I could probably fill my house with all the laws there are. And if that's the case, why aren't they teaching us every law in school so we know not to detect in gamelands?
I've seen enough gameland signs that welcome hunters to enjoy it and give them some rules to abide by. I don't see a "NO METAL DETECTING" sign.
Pennsylvania was a public land...until they created a Commission....a simple stroke of a pen took our rights away. I don't disagree you have to have some laws to keep from raping and destroying our pristine forests...I DO disagree with the absurd.
Al
urbss
Full Member
Great Post Al.
girardpaguy
Sr. Member
Well put!!
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