Lue Map

[LUE-Hawn]

The LUE was written about in one or more of the BAE Bulletins.

I found a guy who has nearly all the BAE books. I want to purchase the ones in regard to the LUE but forget which year KVM mentions. I thought it was BAE 1890 and 1969 or something like that. Do any of you recall the exact dates of publication in regard to the LUE?


Thanks

Regards

LUE-Hawn

 

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[Ryano]

Thanks Randy, Old Bookaroo, and gang !

Mdog - what I meant was the Mayan or Aztec codices or pictographs that showed direction had North oriented to our East (others have noted the LUE map is the same way). That is all. I'll see if I can post a the picture or page that mentions this a little later on if you want..or try links below

Lue-Hawn - check Randy's post on the prior page for his advice on where to focus your search.. the BAE collection is available for viewing and downloading (e-reader or PDF) online at several websites. I wouldn't bother unless you're on your computer and full-size screen.


Try:

U of N. Carolina archives
http://rla.unc.edu/Archives/BAE-pubs.html

-or-

Smithsonian Library
https://www.biodiversitylibrary.org/bibliography/37959#/summary

The first link (U of NC) is great as it lists the contents of each Bulletin and the yearly annuals.

Examino !!

 

[sdcfia]

Focus on New Mexico as well. Prime things would be the Padres, folklore about mining, maps, Masons, gold. Fairly certain any reference is also going to show up in the 1890's issues.

KvM made many references to the idea that the LUE is mentioned frequently but under other names. I've always thought this to be a suggestion that it is related to the Treasure Mountain hoard, though I could certainly be wrong. If you read the first few chapters of Sheepherder's Gold, the parallels become evident quickly.

There have been a number of "Sheepherder lost gold" tales, especially in northern New Mexico and southern Colorado, where even today you encounter sheep herds crossing the highways at high elevations in the mountains. These flocks are still frequently shepherded by the Basque, applying their traditional European skills. The "lost gold" references - are they mere coincidences, intentional opportunities or coded messages?

Here is part of a recent interesting post from "corazon de oro" on a TNet Lost Dutchman's Mine thread titled, James Addison Reavis would be proud:

" ... I keep hearing how good the Spanish were at finding gold, and silver, and how Mexicans were not that smart like to create the PSM's, that they may be Jesuit made. The fact is that a lot of those Mexicans were Spaniards, but not your average Spaniard. They were from Basque Country. The Basque Spaniards were the elite of the elite, all Basque were considered nobles since there blood was pure. Basque Country was never invaded by the Moors or Jews. It was mainly the Basque who conquered the New World. Most ships that sailed the waters were made in the Basque shipyards, and manned by Basque. Columbus is said to have been a Basque, and all his ships were Basque made. The first man to circumnavigate the globe was Juan Sebastian Elcano, a Basque. Diego De Peralta was a crew member on one of those ships, the Trinidad. Peralta is a town in the province of Navarre, Spain. I am not saying that the Peralta's that mined the Superstitions were Basque, but there is a good possibility.

Saint Ignatius of Loyola was a Spanish Basque who founded the Jesuits, so the Basque were very loyal to the Jesuits. The Basque excelled in mathematics, astronomy, science, cosmology, and just about everything. If you study the Basque involvement in the New World, you will have a better understanding of the Spanish, and Jesuit mining. Most of the mines were owned by Basque. La Vizcaina, the richest silver mine in the world, belonged to a Basque.

Francisco Ibarra founded the province of Nueva Vizcaya, and it's capital of Durango, named after his birthplace in Basque land. Pimera Alta also mostly Basque involvement starting with Anza. Arizona is said to be named by the Basque. Anywhere there was gold or silver, the Basque were there supervising the slave labor. Francisco Ibarra had declared that all inhabitants of Nueva Vizcaya were nobles as in Basque Country, and were immune from taxation. This seems to be why there are so many unrecorded mines.

Homar"

 

[LUE-Hawn]

Thanks Ryano.

Great information. Thank you.

Regards

LUE-Hawn

 

[LUE-Hawn]

I keep hearing how good the Spanish were at finding gold, and silver, and how Mexicans were not that smart like to create the PSM's, that they may be Jesuit made. The fact is that a lot of those Mexicans were Spaniards, but not your average Spaniard. They were from Basque Country. The Basque Spaniards were the elite of the elite, all Basque were considered nobles since there blood was pure. Basque Country was never invaded by the Moors or Jews. It was mainly the Basque who conquered the New World. Most ships that sailed the waters were made in the Basque shipyards, and manned by Basque. Columbus is said to have been a Basque, and all his ships were Basque made. The first man to circumnavigate the globe was Juan Sebastian Elcano, a Basque. Diego De Peralta was a crew member on one of those ships, the Trinidad. Peralta is a town in the province of Navarre, Spain. I am not saying that the Peralta's that mined the Superstitions were Basque, but there is a good possibility.

Saint Ignatius of Loyola was a Spanish Basque who founded the Jesuits, so the Basque were very loyal to the Jesuits. The Basque excelled in mathematics, astronomy, science, cosmology, and just about everything. If you study the Basque involvement in the New World, you will have a better understanding of the Spanish, and Jesuit mining. Most of the mines were owned by Basque. La Vizcaina, the richest silver mine in the world, belonged to a Basque.

Francisco Ibarra founded the province of Nueva Vizcaya, and it's capital of Durango, named after his birthplace in Basque land. Pimera Alta also mostly Basque involvement starting with Anza. Arizona is said to be named by the Basque. Anywhere there was gold or silver, the Basque were there supervising the slave labor. Francisco Ibarra had declared that all inhabitants of Nueva Vizcaya were nobles as in Basque Country, and were immune from taxation. This seems to be why there are so many unrecorded mines.

Homar"

More Good Stuff.

Thanks to you all for the great information.

Bests

LUE-Hawn

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Well, ya gotta go past the Spanish/Basque/Jesuits to their "source"... Arabian "influences".

 

[Ryano]

Still "looking" at these BAE bulletins.. keeping my focus, for now, on the 1880-1890's time range as suggested. Nothing obvious yet.

However, elsewhere I did find an old Colorado newspaper clipping about legends of the Sangre de Cristo that was a dead ringer for the "Lloro Urraca Enterrari = The bird cries because..." theory. I have a hunch this "legend" may be in one of these bulletins.

I admit I got excited when I found this as I hadn't seen it mentioned before here or other websites. Here's the article:

https://www.coloradohistoricnewspapers.org/cgi-bin/colorado?a=d&d=WTE19120628.2.32#


Urraca = magpie in Spanish. The bird described in the Sangre de Cristo Legend isn't a magpie though, as it's described as having a red breast and\or head. According to a few aviary websites I checked, they only come in B/W, blue, and green\yellow... no red. Still, its a compelling connection so I'm searching the bulletins for a primary source.

What do you guys think about it ?

 

[Ryano]

Here's another .. this time its a woman, not a bird, that's doing the crying.

https://www.chieftain.com/life/the-...cle_c1eceb15-e0ea-5b3c-ba6d-b475d76268cc.html


Seems we've got a mix or melding of Apache and Spanish\Mexican mythology or legend centered around the time of Sangre de Cristo settling. Perhaps the LUE is connected to the Sangre de Cristo Land Grant era that saw a lot of strife and hardship for settlers and Natives ?

 

[sdcfia]

Still "looking" at these BAE bulletins.. keeping my focus, for now, on the 1880-1890's time range as suggested. Nothing obvious yet.

However, elsewhere I did find an old Colorado newspaper clipping about legends of the Sangre de Cristo that was a dead ringer for the "Lloro Urraca Enterrari = The bird cries because..." theory. I have a hunch this "legend" may be in one of these bulletins.

I admit I got excited when I found this as I hadn't seen it mentioned before here or other websites. Here's the article:

https://www.coloradohistoricnewspapers.org/cgi-bin/colorado?a=d&d=WTE19120628.2.32#


Urraca = magpie in Spanish. The bird described in the Sangre de Cristo Legend isn't a magpie though, as it's described as having a red breast and\or head. According to a few aviary websites I checked, they only come in B/W, blue, and green\yellow... no red. Still, its a compelling connection so I'm searching the bulletins for a primary source.

What do you guys think about it ?

House finch? They're common in the mountains, and everywhere else except the plains according to their year-round range map. They're very common here where I live in NM at 7,000' elevation. Certainly likely they're in the Sangre de Cristos.

 

[sdcfia]

Here's another .. this time its a woman, not a bird, that's doing the crying.

https://www.chieftain.com/life/the-...cle_c1eceb15-e0ea-5b3c-ba6d-b475d76268cc.html


Seems we've got a mix or melding of Apache and Spanish\Mexican mythology or legend centered around the time of Sangre de Cristo settling. Perhaps the LUE is connected to the Sangre de Cristo Land Grant era that saw a lot of strife and hardship for settlers and Natives ?

The La Llorona legend is everywhere that Hispanics live - dozens of local variations. The Sangre de Cristos are no exception.

 

[Ryano]

Sdfcia - thank you !

 

[LUE-Hawn]

Hello All,

I seriously recommend reading the following book "The Treasure Hunter's Guide To The Law" by Clair Martin Christensen, LL.B. This is quite informative in regard to what we do for our Hobby or Treasure Hunting Business.

In it is a guide to what Treasure is and the five major terms: Lost Property, Mislaid Property, Abandoned Property, Stolen Property and Finder.

It really opened up my eyes in regard to TREASURE TROVE. Rights of a finder against another including special statutes, the Antiquities Act of 1906, Trespass, Mining Claims, Income Tax, Contracts with states, Partnerships, Liability and more. I know the book is hard to find and I am fortunate to have this copy which is a treasure in itself.

Its not worth breaking the law to find a treasure that you may not be able to keep and could potentially get you thrown in jail or sued and loose what was found.

Find a copy and read it.

Be Safe, Be Aware.

Regards

LUE-Hawn

 

[LUE-Hawn]

The attached photograph is what appears to be a ghostly Conquistador on horseback with his right arm raised whipping a barefooted Indian with a pack on their back.


The legend of La Llorona as told to us when we were children. The La Llorona was a woman who drown her children down at the Pojoaque River also called "Crying Babies of the Earth" refers to a beetle that has a peculiar sound in regard to weeping. This too is an old legend north east of Santa Fe, New Mexico. Lots of history there.

There are a lot of folks who believe in ghosts and I admit I have seen something I cannot explain in human shape and form and quiet and still as death can be, something that would cause the hair on your neck to stand on end. The best thing for the treasure hunter is to find places where ghosts are said to be guarding treasure. I have found some amazing clues to the unknown in relation to them and believe they are signs to good fortune although it may have brought misery and death to those who placed it there?

None the less there is another book in relation to ghosts, spirits or phantasm in regard to treasure. I know people have digital photographs or video recorded orbs? It is those same entities that are guides to treasure and could be some of the same ones I have experienced in my minds eye that I cannot explain.

Being as it is the dead can be a guide to treasure.


Spookily yours

LUE-Hawn

 

[LUE-Hawn]

Spirit Photographs at Treasure Sites: indian Signs and Symbols Hardcover – 1976 by Chester H. Heath

Here is the book I was referring to in my last post. If you can find a copy it is quite interesting.

Regards

LUE-Hawn

 

[Ryano]

If you go on google maps and look at the Taos Regional Municipal Airport and zoom so the entirety of the airport runways sit in the center of the screen. Then move South-SouthWest keeping on the East side of the Rio. You should find a very large lighter-shaded square that contains a big triangle and other shapes as you increase the zoom.

What do you think it is ?

 

[sdcfia]

If you go on google maps and look at the Taos Regional Municipal Airport and zoom so the entirety of the airport runways sit in the center of the screen. Then move South-SouthWest keeping on the East side of the Rio. You should find a very large lighter-shaded square that contains a big triangle and other shapes as you increase the zoom.

What do you think it is ?

I'd guess some sort of erosion control work associated with the stock tank at the SW corner of the disturbed square of dirt. You can see the shallow pond formed upstream in the flowline of the little drainage in the 2016 photo, but the 1991 photo shows no disturbed ground. Obviously, whatever it is was created after 1991.

2016


1991

 

[Ryano]

Doh ! I should've known to use Google Earth's "timeline" feature .. rookie mistake

Thanks anyway This did lead to some interesting reading about the numerous Rio Grande Watershed conservation projects and the continuing encroachment of tribal lands by the Taos township.

 

[White Heart]

Well, ya gotta go past the Spanish/Basque/Jesuits to their "source"... Arabian "influences".

Rebel,
Inspired by your statement, I would like to float an idea I have been mulling over recently about the first entradas.
I have come around to an understanding of the folks who first came to the southwest under the spanish flag.
First, everyone needs to understand that the leaders of the colonizing expeditions, like Onate, were profit seeking adventurers. They made contracts with the king to obtain the rights to exploit a certain area.
The Contractor(conquistador) needed many people to join his enterprise, i.e. soldiers(knights with 4 horses and 2 sets of armour), settlers who would work the land and run the mines(rewarded with land grants) and priests, ;ots of priests to convert the indians and see to the settlers.
Onate was required by contract to build churches. He built 52 in the first year and a half.
The priests were to be franciscan(by contract).
An important point to remember is that in 1598 the Inquisition was in full swing and to be a moslum, a jew or a templar was real trouble.
Such people were killed, fled to the lowlands, or back to morroco or hid is monasteries where they quietly kept their ideas alive.
The colonizing expeditions offered an opportunity for outcasts, both soldiers and settler alike, to change their religion to catholic and get free passage to the new world.
In addition, the sudden need for priests(required by contract to accompany the colony to the new world) gave a chance for open minded free thinking priests that had been educated in monasteries that had housed "confessed" templars and continued teaching their insight, to flee the control of Rome for the new world.
In the 1980s it became common knowledge that many original spanish families in the northwest mountains of New Mexico had in the possessions and in their customs relics from jewish culture. They have become called "crypto jews"
They hid in the mountains of NM for 300 years without being known.....
There is a large indian pueblo, which at the time of the Pueblo revolt in 1680 had many spanish priests. All priest were killed in New Spain and at this pueblo one day in August 1680 except one priest at this pueblo was kept alive because he had taught them templar teachings and rituals and was a leader of that group which had become a "secret society/clan" at the pueblo. Early american masons who came west were astounded to meet brothers. The society is still there today.

So, my idea is that Most, if not ALL of the folks who came to the Southwest in the first 100 years(1580 to 1680) were in some way not really who the said they were. People will do just about anything to provide for the survival of their families or their philosophy. Changing religion and holding your tongue are quite doable when the prospect of FREEDOM is offered.

Another point to remember is that maps and mapping were the "nuclear secrets" of their day.

WH

 

[Ryano]

Any thoughts on Urraca Mesa named after Queen Urraca of Leon instead of Pueblo/Anasazi magpie "harbinger of death" mythology ? Perhaps a clever mix ? Similar to how the Early Christian Church appropriated traditions of assimilated tribes and cultures ?

 

[LUE-Hawn]

Some of my ancestors were with Onate' in 1604 and owned one of the largest land grants north of Santa Fe.

Regards

LUE-Hawn