LUE MAP THEORY, MAYBE SOME CONTEXT

[point hunter]

The panels of "mystery". Glyph panels. What do I/we know about them? I'm just beginning to dig into them, so I have a long way to go. But, others, like SDC, has done good work so we know that indians probably created them along with the "organization". The nameless ones of deep mystery and intrigue. It seems like every time we think we have them nailed down, POOF gone,dust in the wind right? Still some other shadowy name (usually Knight something or other), but I digress. We mostly seem to agree the panels are more modern in nature than ancient. Maybe the LUE showed the way to all or most of the panels and KVM knew it. But he just couldn't get down the trail without another clue.
I noticed there are panels pretty much where the indians placed Towat's gold. There are panels in the area of the Grand Canyon and it's Egyptian stories, along with odd carvings and panels in southern Utah. There are even panels down towards the Sups and the Thunder Gods. I haven't dug into Colorado or New Mexico as deep, but I would expect more of the same, or something close (lost whatever). Gods and Panels, panels and gods. What does it all mean? I talked about this before trying to understand KVM's clue about "pots of gold" related to the LUE. So breifly IMHO the panels follow the old gold of ancient rivers and other geological activity. Now I am not a geologist. But I have studied and read works by doctorates of the field. If your interested, "Ancient Rivers of Gold" by Dr. George Wallace. It's from memory, but that's close & will get you started. I have done through the years, a combination of some field work and alot of book work. IMO, what he talks about is there and I even have a few spots that deserve more time in the field. Too many trails and too little time right?
This is part theory and part fact. IDK if I'm right but look at the carvings themselves on the panels. I kept getting a "cowboy" feel from some of them. Probably just wishful thinking huh? I wonder if some of KVM's carvings in his book are on a panel, or do the areas he mentioned get you close to a panel? IDK, like I said I'm just getting started on these mystey panels. As far as I know, NO ONE, here or elsewhere has came up with a carving out of his book in the field. So, maybe all his carvings and clues he thought he had were wrong. How many people came through there looking for clues? I have trouble beleiving thousands like he said. Hundreds perhaps, thru the years, I could agee.

 

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[point hunter]

I was simply saying If it's considered "Indian Holy/Forbidden Ground" it fits with the time line. It also provides a cover story and has created in at least one case a NO GO zone.

 

[mdog]

Allegories & Alibi’s. Hints & allegations. It does make ones third eye “cry” when looking @ the LUE. I am probably most responsible for derailing this thread. Past civilizations & their legends are better discussed in its own thread. So, my apologies to the group.
Anyway, here’s one possible theory, it still needs more facts. IMO, we can agree the map was drawn by someone/group that understands Masonry & was possibly/ probably a templer also. When: the early 1880’s keep coming up, 1877 seems important. We know the original story of how the map came from UTAH. IMO not only did it have influences from there, Mormans keep popping up too. Stories of Masons & Mormans all the way through Utah, into Arizona, some points in east New Mexico. All near glyph panels, just saying. This helps explain the “water” glyph on the map. Why did Karl land in South Colorado? IMO, because the map had verbal clues that matched up & the presence of a “ mystery” glyph panel near Urraca Mesa. This could partially explain his “black lake” recovery. There is a glyph panel located in the San Juan valley. So, IMO he needed to be closer to it than he was. Maybe he could not find it & that’s why he asked for help in a Masonic way. It could also explain, IMHO, why he was running lines in HIS copy of the “Scarlet Shadow”. We saw this in SDC’s copy he shared. He knew somehow the lines got him close. What he didn’t have was the all important starting point. I’m not saying run lines from the panels , but he had a solve if he had the field clues IMHO. Mr Dogs & SDC’s map work do put lines @ or near glyph sites. Not all granted, but if KVM had seen this, would he have moved his “operations “ west to the next big valley?

Do you know the exact location of the glyph near Urraca Mesa?

 

[point hunter]

I went back and looked, post 474 was the complete map posted of the panels. However, I looked and only saw 1 panel and it was near Urraca Cemetary so it looks like that part of my theory doesn't fit. lol I guess I was remembering the line tracing south toward black lake. I need to spend more time checking my facts.

 

[sdcfia]

Do you know the exact location of the glyph near Urraca Mesa?

To my knowledge, there have been no Mystery Glyphs identified near Urraca Mesa in New Mexico - at least I haven't seen any reports or photos. About 23 miles north of the mesa in an old cemetery in the forest on, I believe, Ponil Creek, there is an unusual headstone that allegedly connects to the Knights Templar. These carvings are not Mystery Glyphs.

Below is a map showing all reported Mystery Glyphs, current to about two years ago.

 

[mdog]

Something to know about the mapping is the headings from the LUE map are repeated over a map of the United States. So, the lines had to be plotted and then the placenames and treasure legends added.

 

[mdog]

To my knowledge, there have been no Mystery Glyphs identified near Urraca Mesa in New Mexico - at least I haven't seen any reports or photos. About 23 miles north of the mesa in an old cemetery in the forest on, I believe, Ponil Creek, there is an unusual headstone that allegedly connects to the Knights Templar. These carvings are not Mystery Glyphs.

Below is a map showing all reported Mystery Glyphs, current to about two years ago.
View attachment 2187760

View attachment 2187761

Thank you very much Sdc.

I found the cemetery. I was hoping I'd get a good line to Black Lake, but it didn't work out.

 

[point hunter]

Sdcfia gave me these locations years ago. I don't know if any new stones have been found. I don't know the origin.

View attachment 2185481

To my knowledge, there have been no Mystery Glyphs identified near Urraca Mesa in New Mexico - at least I haven't seen any reports or photos. About 23 miles north of the mesa in an old cemetery in the forest on, I believe, Ponil Creek, there is an unusual headstone that allegedly connects to the Knights Templar. These carvings are not Mystery Glyphs.

Below is a map showing all reported Mystery Glyphs, current to about two years ago.
View attachment 2187760

View attachment 2187761

SDC is right. That's why I should have all my notes in front of me and not post from memory. I was thinking the glyph map had 2 panels running north/south not east/west. Add that to the word Urraca close by to one panel on the map originally shown and a line running south. See how easy it is to get signs and directions confused. Plus I'm no spring chicken, so I will be more careful. But, I have done my research on the 4 corners and how the ancient rivers ran through that country. The Map above shows what I was saying. Start at 4 corners and see how many panels are in those 4 states. Leave off Nevada and California and you will see almost every other one is in one of those 4 states. There is also reference of part of a river running east/west along the Colorado/New Mexico border. The panels on the east and west sides of the blank middle somewhat reflect this. I'm just saying whatever gold thers is/was had to come from somewhere. I have looked at gelology, field signs, and valid recoveries (think LUE @ black lake, if it was valid), and put it all on google earth. Everything goes around 4 corners and the big blank area in the middle, except I was told the KGC had an area of interest out in the barren areas near there.

 

[point hunter]

One thing I forgot to mention, I did not track the ancient rivers north thru Utah. My areas of interests have always been the Sups and Northen New Mexico/Southern Colorado. I can when I get time if anyone is interested. But I expect to find a branch that went that way too, IMHO. So, that's why I went east around 4 corners, looking for signs of the LUE along the two states borders. There are some lost mines/stories thru that country, but not nearly as many or as well known. I think there might be a reference of a branch that runs north/south in eastern New Mexico also but I need to check to be sure. I know there is reference of them in southern New Mexico and southern Arizona. There are pieces of it along the southern Colorado's and nothern New Mexico's eastern border also. When I look at the newest glyph map, I see my search should have continued thru Utah and northern Colorado.

 

[mdog]

No. I surely did not say that.
I will say it appears to be created by a Mason, but that doesn't make it a Masonic document. A "Masonic" document would need Grand Lodge buy-in and I dont see that, yet, here.

I have a numbers question for you, please.

I've been trying to figure out the arrow and, as you can see, there are 9 points on it. I think the position of the small triangle in the lower right quadrant is a clue that indicates the York Rite, the triangle is slightly to the east and could indicate the Alter in the Lodge. Before I forget, is there a triangle on top of the Alter in the York Rite? Back to the number 9, I looked it up on google and this is what I got.

To York Rite Masons, the number 9 symbolizes "perfection" or "completion" due to its mathematical property of being "three times three," representing a trinity of trinities, making it a highly significant number in their advanced degrees and rituals, often signifying a culmination of knowledge or spiritual development; essentially, it represents a deeper level of understanding achieved through the Masonic journey.

Key points about the symbolism of 9 in York Rite Masonry:

• Trinity of trinities:
  The number 9 is derived from 3 multiplied by itself (3 x 3 = 9), which is seen as a powerful symbol of the threefold nature of God in many spiritual traditions.
  
  
• Completion of a cycle:
  In numerology, 9 is often considered the end of a cycle and the beginning of a new one, signifying a full transformation or reaching a higher state.
  
  
  
• The "Master Elect of Nine" degree:
  Within the York Rite, the "Master Elect of Nine" degree is particularly significant, focusing on the concept of using wisdom and virtue to guide others while avoiding excesses of zeal.
  
  
  Is this information correct?

 

[cuzimloony]

Good, now we're back on track, and you've asked a extremely good question. Whether it's Masonic symbols, Egyptian/Mystery glyphs, Greek sacred geometry, spherical mathematics or some other arcane notation, why the cyphers, and why did they come into the public domain? mdog has done an excellent job of providing map links to numerous of these types of sites - none of which have been exploited, to my knowledge.

Why are there cyphers? I don't know. Why do we encrypt text messages on our phones? I would assume, and Im not sure, but the answer to the first bears a relation with the answer to the second. That said, I don't create cyphers so, I don't know. I also don't see any cyphers on the LUE map, just Masonic symbols and lines. Why the cyphers in the past? To give knowledge to those who are ready and hide it from those who aren't......my best GUESS. Again. I don't see any cyphers on the LUE map, but Im not a cypher expert. Im afraid my final answer to all of your questions is, I don't know. Why symbols?? You know...... because symbols speak to your unconscious while words speak to the ego. It has to do with consciousness. BACK OFF TRACK AGAIN!!!!!!! hahahahhahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahh oh well.

I have a numbers question for you, please.

I've been trying to figure out the arrow and, as you can see, there are 9 points on it. I think the position of the small triangle in the lower right quadrant is a clue that indicates the York Rite, the triangle is slightly to the east and could indicate the Alter in the Lodge. Before I forget, is there a triangle on top of the Alter in the York Rite? Back to the number 9, I looked it up on google and this is what I got.

To York Rite Masons, the number 9 symbolizes "perfection" or "completion" due to its mathematical property of being "three times three," representing a trinity of trinities, making it a highly significant number in their advanced degrees and rituals, often signifying a culmination of knowledge or spiritual development; essentially, it represents a deeper level of understanding achieved through the Masonic journey.

Key points about the symbolism of 9 in York Rite Masonry:

• Trinity of trinities:
  The number 9 is derived from 3 multiplied by itself (3 x 3 = 9), which is seen as a powerful symbol of the threefold nature of God in many spiritual traditions.
  
  
• Completion of a cycle:
  In numerology, 9 is often considered the end of a cycle and the beginning of a new one, signifying a full transformation or reaching a higher state.
  
  
  
• The "Master Elect of Nine" degree:
  Within the York Rite, the "Master Elect of Nine" degree is particularly significant, focusing on the concept of using wisdom and virtue to guide others while avoiding excesses of zeal.
  
  
  Is this information correct?

Sounds about right. Have you guys really looked over the text under the "map?"

Cryptic Masonry - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

If cryptic Masonry has been discussed, then Im late and sorry . If not, it just shows how sometimes, you don't even need a cypher to hide things. You just need to use certain words that others will pick up on, that nobody else will, in plain English. Maybe you guys could attend the local Lodge? Most Freemasons absolutely LOVE to talk about the appendant bodies....... They'll always invite you to have dinner with them, even if they don't invite you into an open Lodge.

 

[mdog]

Why are there cyphers? I don't know. Why do we encrypt text messages on our phones? I would assume, and Im not sure, but the answer to the first bears a relation with the answer to the second. That said, I don't create cyphers so, I don't know. I also don't see any cyphers on the LUE map, just Masonic symbols and lines. Why the cyphers in the past? To give knowledge to those who are ready and hide it from those who aren't......my best GUESS. Again. I don't see any cyphers on the LUE map, but Im not a cypher expert. Im afraid my final answer to all of your questions is, I don't know. Why symbols?? You know...... because symbols speak to your unconscious while words speak to the ego. It has to do with consciousness. BACK OFF TRACK AGAIN!!!!!!! hahahahhahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahh oh well.


Sounds about right. Have you guys really looked over the text under the "map?"

Cryptic Masonry - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

If cryptic Masonry has been discussed, then Im late and sorry . If not, it just shows how sometimes, you don't even need a cypher to hide things. You just need to use certain words that others will pick up on, that nobody else will, in plain English. Maybe you guys could attend the local Lodge? Most Freemasons absolutely LOVE to talk about the appendant bodies.......

Thank you very much.

Yes, I've read the text under the map and two things stick out, to me, the word Shiboleth and von Mueller says whoever solves the puzzle will never be able to carry away all of the wealth that they find, possibly because there is no material wealth but a wealth of knowledge.

I have contacted several lodges, including my local lodge, but have had no luck getting any information. You are the only Mason who has helped me, and for that, I am very grateful. Thank you very much.

 

[mdog]

Why are there cyphers? I don't know. Why do we encrypt text messages on our phones? I would assume, and Im not sure, but the answer to the first bears a relation with the answer to the second. That said, I don't create cyphers so, I don't know. I also don't see any cyphers on the LUE map, just Masonic symbols and lines. Why the cyphers in the past? To give knowledge to those who are ready and hide it from those who aren't......my best GUESS. Again. I don't see any cyphers on the LUE map, but Im not a cypher expert. Im afraid my final answer to all of your questions is, I don't know. Why symbols?? You know...... because symbols speak to your unconscious while words speak to the ego. It has to do with consciousness. BACK OFF TRACK AGAIN!!!!!!! hahahahhahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahh oh well.


Sounds about right. Have you guys really looked over the text under the "map?"

Cryptic Masonry - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

If cryptic Masonry has been discussed, then Im late and sorry . If not, it just shows how sometimes, you don't even need a cypher to hide things. You just need to use certain words that others will pick up on, that nobody else will, in plain English. Maybe you guys could attend the local Lodge? Most Freemasons absolutely LOVE to talk about the appendant bodies....... They'll always invite you to have dinner with them, even if they don't invite you into an open Lodge.

Something else I've been wondering lately, von Mueller made the comment that anybody who solved the LUE would not be able to carry away all the wealth they would find, I wonder if he knew that the mapping developed from the projective geometry, would lead to a treasure legend and not a treasure.

Cuzimloony, I think I figured out how the treasure part of the LUE map works. At this time, I'm looking for Masonic symbols that might help us figure out the history of the map. I don't expect anybody to try to read the mind of whoever created the map. Your knowledge of symbolism has been very helpful.

 

[mdog]

In my post #550, I asked if there was a triangle on top of the Alter in a York Rite Lodge. I was looking for evidence that the small triangle, in the lower right quadrant of the LUE map, might represent the Alter. Here's the information that I got from google.

Yes, in York Rite Masonry, a triangle is often prominently featured on the lodge altar, typically represented by three burning candles placed in a triangular formation, symbolizing the three primary virtues of the order: "Wisdom, Strength, and Beauty.".

Key points about the triangle on the York Rite altar:

• Symbolic meaning:
  The triangle represents the divine, the perfect geometric form, and the unity of the three fundamental virtues.
• Placement:
  The three candles are usually arranged on the altar in a triangular pattern, with each candle representing one of the virtues.
  
  
• Ritual significance:
  This arrangement is often used during specific rituals and ceremonies within the York Rite.
  
  

 

[cuzimloony]

Something else I've been wondering lately, von Mueller made the comment that anybody who solved the LUE would not be able to carry away all the wealth they would find, I wonder if he knew that the mapping developed from the projective geometry, would lead to a treasure legend and not a treasure.

Cuzimloony, I think I figured out how the treasure part of the LUE map works. At this time, I'm looking for Masonic symbols that might help us figure out the history of the map. I don't expect anybody to try to read the mind of whoever created the map. Your knowledge of symbolism has been very helpful.

Cannot carry the wealth......
Temple made without hands.......

 

[mdog]

In my post #550, I asked if there was a triangle on top of the Alter in a York Rite Lodge. I was looking for evidence that the small triangle, in the lower right quadrant of the LUE map, might represent the Alter. Here's the information that I got from google.

Yes, in York Rite Masonry, a triangle is often prominently featured on the lodge altar, typically represented by three burning candles placed in a triangular formation, symbolizing the three primary virtues of the order: "Wisdom, Strength, and Beauty.".

Key points about the triangle on the York Rite altar:

• Symbolic meaning:
  The triangle represents the divine, the perfect geometric form, and the unity of the three fundamental virtues.
• Placement:
  The three candles are usually arranged on the altar in a triangular pattern, with each candle representing one of the virtues.
  
  
• Ritual significance:
  This arrangement is often used during specific rituals and ceremonies within the York Rite.
  

I think this might show another piece of evidence that the LUE map shows York Rite symbolism.

 

[mdog]

Here's Ryano's overlay of the LUE map.

The white lines on the bottom half show the lines from the top half.

I've theorized that the shallow curved lines represented one of the two columns at the entrance to the Temple of Solomon. In Masonry, one of the columns is named Boaz, the one on the north side of the entrance, the other column is named Jachim, on the south side of the entrance. Both columns have a globe on top of them. Jachim has a celestial globe, represented by the shallow curve on the LUE map, and Boaz has a terrestrial globe. In Masonry, these columns also represent Saint John the Baptist, the north column, and Saint John the Evangelist, the south column. When Ryano overlayed the top of the map to the bottom, it put the two curves of the celestial map, opposite each other, one on the north, left, and one on the south, right. It might be that these two curves, on the overlay, represent the two saints John, whose religious celebrations are June 24th and December 27th.

The more I study the LUE map, the more it seems like a Masonic training aid that has had some features of it used to create the LUE mapping to treasure legend sites, or other important points.

 

[releventchair]

Here's Ryano's overlay of the LUE map.

View attachment 2188289

The white lines on the bottom half show the lines from the top half.

I've theorized that the shallow curved lines represented one of the two columns at the entrance to the Temple of Solomon. In Masonry, one of the columns is named Boaz, the one on the north side of the entrance, the other column is named Jachim, on the south side of the entrance. Both columns have a globe on top of them. Jachim has a celestial globe, represented by the shallow curve on the LUE map, and Boaz has a terrestrial globe. In Masonry, these columns also represent Saint John the Baptist, the north column, and Saint John the Evangelist, the south column. When Ryano overlayed the top of the map to the bottom, it put the two curves of the celestial map, opposite each other, one on the north, left, and one on the south, right. It might be that these two curves, on the overlay, represent the two saints John, whose religious celebrations are June 24th and December 27th.

The more I study the LUE map, the more it seems like a Masonic training aid that has had some features of it used to create the LUE mapping to treasure legend sites, or other important points.

Oh my eyes.

I've folded the thing mentally through center of arrowhead and ended up with a fur trade era muskrat spear. Or arguably a bone type fish spear.

Left of your picture still wants to be bridgework. Note tiny arrow between sides as I fold through center and put both circle eyes on the bridge . Like wheels then. And not the Oscar Meyer mobile turned football shaped but more like two gears with varied ratios.
Gaze thence towards the muskrat spear and it instead morphs into a sash saw.

Yes. I'm imagining things I shouldn't.

 

[sdcfia]

Why are there cyphers?
. . . .

Enticement.

The cyphers are mysterious and impossible to solve. They keep the curious on the path they've been encouraged to follow. They provide insurance in case the owners decide to make their own recovery. If there is a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, the cyphers won't lead you to the physical prize.

mdog makes an interesting case that the LUE map might well be used to point out numerous caches, each with its own brand of cypher clues. Why use Masonic woo woo for the LUE map, and not Egyptian woo woo? Miller is reported to have been a Mason, so he must have been familiar with that woo, and simply released a map with plenty of Masonic symbology. The real question is, why would such a map be released to the public at all? Same question applies to all the satellite caches Miller's map might point to.