LUE MAP THEORY, MAYBE SOME CONTEXT

[mdog]

This map will show you why I believe that the Victorio Peak treasure legend is part of the LUE caches.

There is an intersection of three lines at 32 deg 56' N and 106 deg 36' W. The blue line is a LUE clue heading, the black line is a Runestone line. The green line shows the LUE clue heading of 257 deg, from the intersecting lines. The Sun ray gap in that heading, is between 2 miles and 4 miles, defined by the green pointers. It's good if there are rock carvings within the gap, and, as you can see, the Bloody Hands petroglyph and another petroglyph are less than a mile off the gap and Victorio Peak is at the west end of the gap. The yellow line shows a pass from the desert to Victorio Peak, it looks like there's a road there, now. You can also see the approximate location of the petroglyphs along the pass.

 

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[mdog]

This was written as part of the introduction to Karl von Mueller's book. Treasure Hunter's Manual #7.

Personal integrity is, of course, the final test of one man's authority in his field. Of K von M, it might be mentioned that several years ago, financed by a group of investors, he and his partner, "Hardrock" Hammond, located and assayed a cache of gold and silver that represented 39,000 pounds of bullion, of vast value. Since then, all members of the investment group have passed on. Neither K von M nor Hammond have touched this treasure, nor do they have any intention of doing so. Supreme Trust, exemplified-two men of all men.

D. H. Moore

The Editorial Group, Ltd.
P.O. Box 521
Palo Alto, California

Does anybody know any details of this find?

 

[mdog]

This was written as part of the introduction to Karl von Mueller's book. Treasure Hunter's Manual #7.

Personal integrity is, of course, the final test of one man's authority in his field. Of K von M, it might be mentioned that several years ago, financed by a group of investors, he and his partner, "Hardrock" Hammond, located and assayed a cache of gold and silver that represented 39,000 pounds of bullion, of vast value. Since then, all members of the investment group have passed on. Neither K von M nor Hammond have touched this treasure, nor do they have any intention of doing so. Supreme Trust, exemplified-two men of all men.

D. H. Moore

The Editorial Group, Ltd.
P.O. Box 521
Palo Alto, California

Does anybody know any details of this find?

The location and assay, by von Mueller and Hammond, was several years before Treasure Hunter's Manual #7 was printed, so that might have been in the 1960's. Does anybody know if von Mueller and Hammond were involved in any of the events at Victorio Peak?

 

[mdog]

Here are two articles about the treasure of Victorio Peak.

The Mystery of the $30 Billion Treasure - Freedom Magazine by Church of Scientology International

You are about to read a story that strains the imagination. It is about the disappearance of a fortune of up to $30 billion in gold bullion. This Article is presented by the Church of Scientology International.

www.freedommag.org

The Mystery of the $30 Billion Treasure - Freedom Magazine by Church of Scientology International

You are about to read a story that strains the imagination. It is about the disappearance of a fortune of up to $30 billion in gold bullion. This Article is presented by the Church of Scientology International.

www.freedommag.org

This excerpt comes from the second article.
"One of the claimants to the gold who was there during Operation Goldfinder was Joe Newman of El Paso, Texas. Newman told this writer that he had found three piles of gold bars in a small cave within the peak in November 1973. He counted the bars in one pile — there were 600. The other piles were identical. Each bar, he said, weighed up to 60 pounds. They were roughly formed, as though from a primitive smelting process."

600 bars at 60 pounds equals 36,000 pounds. D.H. Moore's introduction to Treasure Hunter's Manual #7 says that von Mueller and Hammond located and assayed 39,000 pounds of bullion. I wonder if one of these 600 bar piles, from Victorio Peak. were what Hammond and von Mueller assayed.

 

[Randy Bradford]

The location and assay, by von Mueller and Hammond, was several years before Treasure Hunter's Manual #7 was printed, so that might have been in the 1960's. Does anybody know if von Mueller and Hammond were involved in any of the events at Victorio Peak?

No, they were not. Hammond, I believe, died in 1968...he worked as a prospector (among other things) in California and I've never once seen his name mentioned with VP.

Karl, to the best of my knowledge, never once acknowledged the digging's at VP, which is strange since the NPG was at it's peak in the 1970s when VP was attracting national attention. All things considered, Karl (I believe) would have found all the attention that site got from the media very off-putting.

 

[Ryano]

photo from The Travels of Hardrock Hendricks by Faye Hendricks and was taken during their search for the cave of gold in the Valley of Secrets.
—-
There is a chapter titled “Chief Victorio’s Treasure” where HH was given a lead to conduct a search around Magdalena NM (3 hour drive away from Victorio Peak) for a cave containing gold bars “stacked like firewood” but came up empty-handed.
——
Faye’s book is a memoir of their travels and adventures, and KvM is featured quite a bit, along with other treasure-hunting luminaries. It’s packed with place names and photos but very few dates. The chapters detailing their escapades aren’t necessarily told in a chronological order. I haven’t seen any information on the LUE or Valley of Secrets that isn’t already known to readers of KvM’s work, other than this photograph (which at first glance appears to have more in common with the “mystery obelisks” than the LUE pictograph. I’m working on digitizing the text (for my personal use not distribution) to allow easy cross-referencing for research.

**Anyone have more recent photo of this boulder showing the carvings ?

 

[Randy Bradford]

View attachment 2163424photo from The Travels of Hardrock Hendricks by Faye Hendricks and was taken during their search for the cave of gold in the Valley of Secrets.
—-
There is a chapter titled “Chief Victorio’s Treasure” where HH was given a lead to conduct a search around Magdalena NM (3 hour drive away from Victorio Peak) for a cave containing gold bars “stacked like firewood” but came up empty-handed.
——
Faye’s book is a memoir of their travels and adventures, and KvM is featured quite a bit, along with other treasure-hunting luminaries. It’s packed with place names and photos but very few dates. The chapters detailing their escapades aren’t necessarily told in a chronological order. I haven’t seen any information on the LUE or Valley of Secrets that isn’t already known to readers of KvM’s work, other than this photograph (which at first glance appears to have more in common with the “mystery obelisks” than the LUE pictograph. I’m working on digitizing the text (for my personal use not distribution) to allow easy cross-referencing for research.

**Anyone have more recent photo of this boulder showing the carvings ?

Given there proximity to alleged LUE recovery sites, I've often wondered if there wasn't a connection between the obelisks and the LUE. Interesting fact, the hotel that famous anti-LUT critic Tom Hilton stayed at was the same one the displays on of the obelisks. All of this is in Cimerron, just a stone's throw from Black Lake. It's relative closeness to Segundo made it easy for Hilton to visit the Exanimo Establishment and harass the regulars for info according to Karl.

Hardrock Hendricks was a regular goer of the treasure show circuit, particularly the early ones in California that Karl was affiliated with. You can often see his photograph where he is wearing a top hat.

Hardrock Hammond is not to be confused with Hardrock Hendricks, made even more confusing by the fact that during this time there was also a prominent hunter named Hardrock Hume.

 

[sdcfia]

. . . There is a chapter titled “Chief Victorio’s Treasure” where HH was given a lead to conduct a search around Magdalena NM (3 hour drive away from Victorio Peak) for a cave containing gold bars “stacked like firewood” but came up empty-handed. . . . ( The Travels of Hardrock Hendricks by Faye Hendricks and was taken during their search for the cave of gold in the Valley of Secrets.)
—-
There is a chapter titled “Chief Victorio’s Treasure” where HH was given a lead to conduct a search around Magdalena NM (3 hour drive away from Victorio Peak) for a cave containing gold bars “stacked like firewood” but came up empty-handed.
——

That's very interesting indeed, as the Magdalena vicinity is apparently the general location of the "ALMACEN" (storehouse) shown on one of the purported "Noss treasure maps". Makes one curious about who gave Hammond "a lead" to search there. Does Hendricks say anything more about it?

It's also interesting to note that this allegation creates a rather obscure and hazy link between Noss and Von Mueller with Hammond apparently somewhere in the middle. A big emphasis on the Caballos on the Noss map, but no Victorio Peak. That would support my VP opinions, but that's beyond the subject of this thread.

 

[Ryano]

Hardrock Hammond is not to be confused with Hardrock Hendricks, made even more confusing by the fact that during this time there was also a prominent hunter named Hardrock Hume.

dang it !! Yep, I got them mixed up. Even as the name Hendricks is on the cover of the book and many times in the text, his physical resemblance to Hammond had me fooled. Thank you Randy for pointing that out.

 

[mdog]

View attachment 2163424photo from The Travels of Hardrock Hendricks by Faye Hendricks and was taken during their search for the cave of gold in the Valley of Secrets.
—-
There is a chapter titled “Chief Victorio’s Treasure” where HH was given a lead to conduct a search around Magdalena NM (3 hour drive away from Victorio Peak) for a cave containing gold bars “stacked like firewood” but came up empty-handed.
——
Faye’s book is a memoir of their travels and adventures, and KvM is featured quite a bit, along with other treasure-hunting luminaries. It’s packed with place names and photos but very few dates. The chapters detailing their escapades aren’t necessarily told in a chronological order. I haven’t seen any information on the LUE or Valley of Secrets that isn’t already known to readers of KvM’s work, other than this photograph (which at first glance appears to have more in common with the “mystery obelisks” than the LUE pictograph. I’m working on digitizing the text (for my personal use not distribution) to allow easy cross-referencing for research.

**Anyone have more recent photo of this boulder showing the carvings ?

Is Wet Canyon several miles west of Segundo? I wonder if there are any other carvings in the area.

 

[mdog]

Karl von Mueller stated that LUE stood for:

LLORO URRACA ENTERRARI​

Quite a coincidence eh? Uracca Mesa is also fairly close to Black Lake, NM

This might be a little thin, but that hasn't stopped me before.

I keep trying to find something on the LUE clue that will lead to the places in New Mexico where LUE caches have been recovered or have the potential for a recovery, Elizabethtown, Black Lake, Mora and Romeroville. From the research that Randy Bradford shares, the words LLORO URRACA ENTERRARI were written on the LUE clue and some think these words might be a clue that will help solve the LUE clue. A rough translation is, LLORO to weep, URRACA a proper name and ENTERRARI to bury. Randy has offered the possible translation of, "URRACA CRIES BECAUSE IT IS BURIED."

Some people feel that Urraca Mesa in New Mexico is connected to the LUE because it is just NE of Black Lake, where a LUE cache was allegedly recovered.

Here's another possibility. On page 65 of his book HOW TO FIND THE TREASURES OF THE KNIGHTS OF THE GOLDEN CIRCLE, Roy Roush writes that the LUE was sometimes referred to as the LEAUX. LEAUX is the French word for water.

A few miles west of Black Lake the Mora River flows south to Mora and La Cueva, New Mexico. Here is an excerpt from the article, Where the Heart Resides: Stories from the Mora Valley. "... the Mora River Valley is a land of blackberries and black bears, pine forests and trout-stuffed streams. It contains a vibrant history within its lush rolling landscape, and possibly takes its name from a French trapper who wandere d over from Taos and dubbed it “les eaux des morts,” or “the waters of the dead,” for the corpse he found submerged in the river. (It was said that Mexicanos corrupted the term to “lo de Mora.”

Here is a French phrase, L'EAUX URA ENTERRAR, this phrase translates to, THE WATERS WILL BURY. Could "THE WATERS WILL BURY" be a clue directing to the Mora River? Something else of interest is Coyote Creek, which is a tributary of the Mora River. Twenty miles north of Mora, where Coyote Creek flows into the Mora River, Coyote Creek flows right by Black Lake.

Rumor is that LUE caches were recovered at Black Lake and just south of Mora. Also, near La Cueva, a carving was found that had some features of the LUE clue.

 

[Ryano]

That's very interesting indeed, as the Magdalena vicinity is apparently the general location of the "ALMACEN" (storehouse) shown on one of the purported "Noss treasure maps". Makes one curious about who gave Hammond "a lead" to search there. Does Hendricks say anything more about it?

Here ya go..
Text copied from the book:

“One winter Hardrock received a letter from a fellow treasure hunter from Bellflower, California. We were camped on the California desert at Andrade at the time, and arrangements were made for the man to stop by. The fellow, an elderly gentleman, wanted to seek Chief Victorio's treasure which he believed existed in New Mexico. In fact, he had scouted the country around Magdalena, New Mexico, on several occasions. He told us he had had a horse get away from him on one of his searches in that rugged mountainous country. He never found the horse.

The December day he stopped to see Hardrock the man was on his way to New Mexico once more. The talk was interesting, and he gave the reasons he was convinced that Chief Victorio had left a vast treasure buried somewhere near Magdalena. Since he said nothing about wanting a companion in the search, Hard-rock did not go, but after the man left we talked about Chief Victorio's treasure and decided that we needed to know more about it. We began digging into history…”
(End quote)

It goes on to recount a tale of Victorio protecting the location of a cave of gold high up a cliffside “three days ride from Casa Grandes”. No further mention of the man from Bellflower. Hendricks decided not to pursue the lead.

 

[mdog]

That's very interesting indeed, as the Magdalena vicinity is apparently the general location of the "ALMACEN" (storehouse) shown on one of the purported "Noss treasure maps". Makes one curious about who gave Hammond "a lead" to search there. Does Hendricks say anything more about it?

It's also interesting to note that this allegation creates a rather obscure and hazy link between Noss and Von Mueller with Hammond apparently somewhere in the middle. A big emphasis on the Caballos on the Noss map, but no Victorio Peak. That would support my VP opinions, but that's beyond the subject of this thread.

View attachment 2163470

Sdc, I think you've posted this map, in the past, what's the story on it? Is this something that Noss drew himself?

 

[mdog]

This map will show you why I believe that the Victorio Peak treasure legend is part of the LUE caches.

View attachment 2163253

There is an intersection of three lines at 32 deg 56' N and 106 deg 36' W. The blue line is a LUE clue heading, the black line is a Runestone line. The green line shows the LUE clue heading of 257 deg, from the intersecting lines. The Sun ray gap in that heading, is between 2 miles and 4 miles, defined by the green pointers. It's good if there are rock carvings within the gap, and, as you can see, the Bloody Hands petroglyph and another petroglyph are less than a mile off the gap and Victorio Peak is at the west end of the gap. The yellow line shows a pass from the desert to Victorio Peak, it looks like there's a road there, now. You can also see the approximate location of the petroglyphs along the pass.

The yellow line on this map looks like the easy way out to the plains, from Victorio Peak. The view is looking east and shows the approximate locations of the Bloody Hands petro and another petro that shows a man on a horse.

 

[sdcfia]

Sdc, I think you've posted this map, in the past, what's the story on it? Is this something that Noss drew himself?

As far as I remember, nobody claimed Noss himself drew the map, just that it came from his camp. On TNet, it surfaced several years ago on a thread that was using it trying to prove that the Caballo gold came from Tayopa. I don't know its provenance, or whether it's "genuine".

 

[sdcfia]

mdog, I know you like place names and significant latitude lines. Why do you suppose the small mountain range at the southern NM/AZ border at 33 degrees is named "Big Lue Mountains"? The broad purple line begins to the NE at the KRS discovery point in MN. Any chance those hills tie into your bigger picture?

 

[mdog]

mdog, I know you like place names and significant latitude lines. Why do you suppose the small mountain range at the southern NM/AZ border at 33 degrees is named "Big Lue Mountains"? The broad purple line begins to the NE at the KRS discovery point in MN. Any chance those hills tie into your bigger picture?
View attachment 2163883

Yes, you found a good one, sdcfia. Today, I spent hours looking for information that would say why the name Big Lue was picked for this range. I didn't have any luck. However, the line looks good but the south end of the line is the high point of the Big Lue Mountains and the north end is at Apple Lake, Minnesota. Because Apple Lake is at the north end, it tells me this line was laid out after 1910, when changes were made in the Kensington Runestone mapping and the LUE clue was created. The Big Lue/Apple Lake line intersects a LUE heading line, in southern Colorado and gives you a starting point for the county size LUE heading layout, which would be 15 to 38 mile LUE headings, from the starting point. The Big Lue/Apple Lake line also bisects a line that connects the Urraca Cemetery and the Pioneer Urraca Cemetery, this would show another LUE clue connection because the name Urraca is supposed to be a part of the LUE clue.

Here's how the lines work. There are three lines going east from Treasure Mountain. The line going SE is the LUE clue heading of 103.5 deg and it goes to Wildcat Bluff, Arkansas. The length of the Sun ray for the heading of 103.5 deg, is 38 miles. This means that, somewhere along the line from Treasure Mountain to Wildcat Bluff, there has to be a segment of 38 miles, the northernmost part of the segment will give you the starting point for the LUE clue headings layout. As you can see. the purple line that connects Big Lue Mountain and Apple Lake Intersects the line from Treasure Mountain to Wildcat Bluff. Further to the SE, the line from Treasure Mountain intersects a Kensington Runestone Pyramid line, at Culebra Peak. The length of this segment is 38 miles. This means that the starting point for the LUE clue layout will be where the Big Lue/Apple Lake line intersects the Treasure Mountain/Wildcat Bluff line. After I plot the headings and the location of the gaps, in the headings, you will be able to look for places of interest at the gaps.

Sdc, you asked me about this place in post #10, but I didn't know enough about the LUE clue, to give you an answer. In that post, you mentioned that there were treasure legends from the Big Lue Mountain range, could you give me a link to those legends.

 

[sdcfia]

Yes, you found a good one, sdcfia. Today, I spent hours looking for information that would say why the name Big Lue was picked for this range. . . .

. . . Sdc, you asked me about this place in post #10, but I didn't know enough about the LUE clue, to give you an answer. In that post, you mentioned that there were treasure legends from the Big Lue Mountain range, could you give me a link to those legends.

I don't know why the "Big Lue" name for those hills either, and I don't have any links to give you mdog, but I do have some info. Boy, what a tangled web you've got going here. Many years ago I suspected there was some sort of Unified Treasure Location theory that tied many sites together. Your maps are certainly linking up a lot of alleged treasure sites. Here's some more.

Connect the tip of the Masonic symbol-shaped building at the International Peace Garden on the USA/Canada border to the high point in the Big Lue Mountains (red line). Then rotate the line 90 degrees to the left (west) and the right (east). Purple. The west rotation bisects a rectangle of land on the Salt River in AZ, just above Roosevelt Lake in the Aztec Peak vicinity. Some folks believe this area is the true source of the many treasure claims in this part of AZ, including Lost Dutchman, Jesuit, Chicomoztoc, etc. I don't know enough about it to even comment, but it is a coincidence that the area is on the line.

The east rotation takes you into my neck of the woods and I've put a few waypoints on or within a mile of the line. I'm the only one who knows anything about most of these, and they're all linked to yet another spiderweb of "coincidental" connections. That's getting into the weeds and we don't need to get off topic, but the point is that the Big Lue Mountains is part of the puzzle, and as you know, I don't believe in coincidences.

 

[mdog]

I don't know why the "Big Lue" name for those hills either, and I don't have any links to give you mdog, but I do have some info. Boy, what a tangled web you've got going here. Many years ago I suspected there was some sort of Unified Treasure Location theory that tied many sites together. Your maps are certainly linking up a lot of alleged treasure sites. Here's some more.

Connect the tip of the Masonic symbol-shaped building at the International Peace Garden on the USA/Canada border to the high point in the Big Lue Mountains (red line). Then rotate the line 90 degrees to the left (west) and the right (east). Purple. The west rotation bisects a rectangle of land on the Salt River in AZ, just above Roosevelt Lake in the Aztec Peak vicinity. Some folks believe this area is the true source of the many treasure claims in this part of AZ, including Lost Dutchman, Jesuit, Chicomoztoc, etc. I don't know enough about it to even comment, but it is a coincidence that the area is on the line.

The east rotation takes you into my neck of the woods and I've put a few waypoints on or within a mile of the line. I'm the only one who knows anything about most of these, and they're all linked to yet another spiderweb of "coincidental" connections. That's getting into the weeds and we don't need to get off topic, but the point is that the Big Lue Mountains is part of the puzzle, and as you know, I don't believe in coincidences.
View attachment 2164058

View attachment 2164059

Sdcfia, was there a recovery made by the Map Cave. That was a real interesting story, in your book, and I plotted all of the major points. Also, is there any treasure lore associated with Black Mountain, just NE of the Twin Sisters?

 

[mdog]

I'm still wondering why a mountain range in Arizona would be named the Big Lue Mountains. I think I remember, from one of the LUE threads, that Hardrock Hammond borrowed the map, from it's owner, and let KvM and others, copy the LUE map before he returned it to the owner, who lived in Arizona. I wonder if the maps owner, or somebody in his family, had something to do with naming the mountain range. Also, why would he have the LUE map, in the first place? Did somebody in his, or her, family create the map?

I don't have any top notch research tools, but if somebody does, maybe you would look for information about a family named Lue, Leaux, L'eaux or Laue, who have lived in Arizona.